Teaching QUIET By First Training TO bark

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

aping??? or monkey see monkey do

Aping is a word. Generally it means you are copying a person's actions in a mocking way. So if you do an impression of someone, you are "aping" them.

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

What is the trainer doing with Sadie? Max barks almost uncontrollably in public.

There is nothiing more embarrassing than walking down the street with a tiny little dog that is bark-bark-barking. Occasionally Thor will do that. Like, he's not even barking AT anything in particular, he's just walking and barking because he's feeling fierce. I almost feel like I'm carrying a ghetto blaster with the volume turned way up. Remember those, when people didn't have headphones?

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Aping is a word. Generally it means you are copying a person's actions in a mocking way. So if you do an impression of someone, you are "aping" them.



There is nothiing more embarrassing than walking down the street with a tiny little dog that is bark-bark-barking. Occasionally Thor will do that. Like, he's not even barking AT anything in particular, he's just walking and barking because he's feeling fierce. I almost feel like I'm carrying a ghetto blaster with the volume turned way up. Remember those, when people didn't have headphones?

You have got to see the ghetto blaster I have!
Thanks for the laugh. Somehow Max just started barking like crazy right in front of my front door when we attempted our perfect neighborhood walk. I brought him inside immediately and grilled some chicken. We are going to try this again with grilled chicken & a clicker. Wish us luck.

[QuickSilver]

Good luck! Let us know how it went.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Good luck! Let us know how it went.

I haven't had an opportunity to reply to your thread about Thor and LP. I'm sorry you heard this news, but I'm sure he'll be ok. Don't go crazy with worry. How's Ringo feeling?

As far as my ghetto blaster, we started the training as soon as the front door opened. That's usually when we turn the sound way up. I was able to have him sit and wait quietly and then treat him. It took about 3x to get out the door. We then went to the driveway and had my partner walk Cooper back and forth down the road. It set Max. I was able to sit him and put him in a wait mode as well but he still barked. I said SHHHH QUIET and he stopped for 2 seconds, then treated him. We did this continually while Cooper pranced past us sticking his tongue out at Max.

We then met Cooper down the road. I tried it in another location. It's not all that smooth, but I can put him in a sit and wait position. I tried watch me also to get his eyes off Cooper and that worked a little. Max is just so hyped up but I think with daily training we can make this work.

What is anyone's thoughts on softly and gently holding his mouth closed while saying SHHH QUIET?

Thanks for allowing me to journal in this thread.

[QuickSilver]

Thanks for your thoughts about Thor. He is fine, I'm just getting used to the idea. I had this fantasy that he was indestructible, and I'd never have to worry about problems like pancreatitus, or liver shunt, or whatever. I don't really know how to explain it.

Anyway, back to your noisemakers! It sounds like you have a good plan. Bottom line, it's repetition, right? I think what makes it so difficult is there is that split second between "I notice a potential concern" and "I WILL KILL YOU! KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLL YOU!!!!!!!!!" Once they are on thought 2, it's really hard to bring them back.

I do think that overall, Thor is better. I'd say he's gone from barking at maybe 75% of the dogs he passes to maybe 25%. It's hard to really quantify, but he seems to know that passing a dog sedately gets him a treat.

My feeling about holding his mouth shut is that it will probably frustrate him more, and be counterproductive. I have my own version of this: I put my hand on Thor's face so he can't see the object of his loathing (though of course, he can still hear and smell), and I say Sssssssssssh. I don't remove my hand until he's quiet. But honestly, I don't think it makes much difference. Maybe in some cases when he's not 100% over the edge.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Thanks for your thoughts about Thor. He is fine, I'm just getting used to the idea. I had this fantasy that he was indestructible, and I'd never have to worry about problems like pancreatitus, or liver shunt, or whatever. I don't really know how to explain it.

Anyway, back to your noisemakers! It sounds like you have a good plan. Bottom line, it's repetition, right? I think what makes it so difficult is there is that split second between "I notice a potential concern" and "I WILL KILL YOU! KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLL YOU!!!!!!!!!" Once they are on thought 2, it's really hard to bring them back.

I do think that overall, Thor is better. I'd say he's gone from barking at maybe 75% of the dogs he passes to maybe 25%. It's hard to really quantify, but he seems to know that passing a dog sedately gets him a treat.

My feeling about holding his mouth shut is that it will probably frustrate him more, and be counterproductive. I have my own version of this: I put my hand on Thor's face so he can't see the object of his loathing (though of course, he can still hear and smell), and I say Sssssssssssh. I don't remove my hand until he's quiet. But honestly, I don't think it makes much difference. Maybe in some cases when he's not 100% over the edge.

I understand wanting an invincible dog. I too, want them to live forever.

The groomer used a can full of coins when Max was there and said he didn't bark once. I started doing that at home and then something clicked inside my head. Max is barking because he's either over excited or anxious and shaking a metal can is only going to increase that feeling. I read though, that a noise is helpful in gaining their attention when they are in that mode. Something like a whistle or a hand clap. (Claps do nothing).

Repetition I believe is the key, as long as my method of training is correct..

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

What is the trainer doing with Sadie? Max barks almost uncontrollably in public.

The trainer is working on our door manners and we're getting nowhere tonight she was horrible. she would chase the neighbors son around barking at his heels. i don't know how i'm ever going to break her of these crazy things. i'm about to just give up and realize she's going to always be put up when people come over

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

We did this continually while Cooper pranced past us sticking his tongue out at Max.

Cooper!

QS, my problem with Max passing other dogs is that he thinks if we can't meet the dog, it must be a threat. In a way, he is correct. We worked successfully on socializing him with dogs and owners that are safe, but there are many that are not safe.

When we are walking, he spots the dog that he knows we aren't going to meet. He sits nicely and waits for the dog to approach and then boom! He launches into the second mode of "I will kill you" and there is no snapping him out of it. We walk in the road and the other dogs are on the opposite side. Trainers usually advise changing direction. That does me no good because we would end up walking with the other dog. Not to mention, Max digs in and wants to stay. He would happily let me drag him on the pavement or gravel before give in to me.

Yesterday on our walk, when we arrived at the house with the large springer spaniel behind an invisible fence, Max prepared to bark. I managed to stop him by throwing yummy treats on the ground, under his nose. He didn't completely relax, but he didn't bark. I'm going to try this when we pass a dog walking on the street. Holding a treat in front of his nose has not worked, but maybe throwing the treat on the ground will. His attitude when I held the treat was, "I'll bark first and then eat that treat."

[QuickSilver]

Hm. If I can get Thor into a Sit before the other dog goes by, 95% he won't bark now. I try very hard to distract him so that most of his attention is on me and that yummy treat in my hand before the dog comes by. Then I'll feed him treats, or have him continue to Watch Me as the dog passes.

I also stand in front of him, since I've read this makes the situation less intense for both dogs.

If he barks, I say Too Bad, put the treats back in my purse, and drag him off.

If we're just walking by the other dog, I slap the treat bag on my leg to make a distracting noise associated with food.

At the rescue I volunteer at, they always say, "Distract and Reward" - make a weird noise to get the dog's attention, then throw the treat a distance away. Dogs usually can't resist chasing the treat. For Thor, I want him to practice his impulse control, so I make it a little harder for him, though perhaps I shouldn't.

[Maximo]

I do stand in front of Max to block his view of the other dog. He pulls around my legs, or in between. So I have tried crouching or kneeling to block him and same thing, he pulls. Physically holding him in place intensifies his anxiety and has even caused him to bite me, which means he is completely in the red zone, because he is not a biter. I have even tried ducking behind cars or other large objects before the barking begins, but he knows the dog is there.

We have practiced "watch me" for months now, but it doesn't work when he spots one of his barking triggers. I have even tried bringing a Texas Toothpick, his all-time favorite treat. He isn't interested. I resorted to the ultimate no-no for awhile and picked him up and held him to my chest while doing yoga like breathing. This worked, but then stopped.

I believe part of our problem is that during the colder months, everyone disappears and we have the streets to ourselves. Now that it is warming up, everyone is coming out and everything is new again to Max.

We just returned from our walk and we had a few triggers, including a jogger and workmen carrying strange tools. I threw treats on the ground in front of Max. He passed the jogger twice with no problem, but he did break a little for the workmen. No frenzied barking because I continued to throw treats. I'm hoping that he starts to associate his usual triggers with treats instead of danger. Instead of throwing the treat right under his nose, I'll toss it a little farther to make him chase it a bit as you suggested.

Max is very difficult to distract outdoors when he focuses in something. Spotting the triggers before he does is also a challenge.

[QuickSilver]

Yeah, I'm sure it's very difficult if Max fixates. Thor and I are at the point where he's almost never purely in the red zone. Even if he barks at another dog, he usually looks back at me like, "what should I do now? Keep barking, right?".

Try the weird noises too. I've found these to be extremely effective. Suck wind through your teeth, hiss like a snake, clear your throat, any sound he's not used to hearing you make. You might even get one of those little noise makers that was popular in the 80s. Do you remember those? It was supposed to help you with road rage, because you could point it at someone who cut you off, and it would make space gun noises.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

You might even get one of those little noise makers that was popular in the 80s. Do you remember those? It was supposed to help you with road rage, because you could point it at someone who cut you off, and it would make space gun noises.

My brothers had toys that sound similar, but I don't recall something made for road rage, lol. I'll check out the toy department for something that makes weird noises. We have tried party favor horns, but the novelty wore off fast. Same with a traditional whistle. Max completely ignores anything that comes out my mouth. When I make stranger noises, Teddy wants to sniff my mouth and look to see what is in there. I have also thought about lying down in the street to see what Max does.

[QuickSilver]

These things fit on your keychain, and make like 20 different noises. That's what made me think of them. However, the sounds themselves have the same tonal quality, so I don't know if a dog would consider them all different. They were kind of a novelty item.

[AllDogBoots]

Holy cow, I go for a quick walk and I missed a lot! I need that thing that makes noises. I think it'll help my road rage and my ghetto blaster.

It seems that my issue with Max starts immediately after I put the harness on and we go to the door. That's when the anxiety begins. Before the door even opens, he's barking like crazy. We haven't even gotten to the point of object triggers he's anxious/excited right from the start. I've made the mistake in the past just to take him out and as long as we got past the driveway he was fine the entire time. Now he started barking from the get go again. I can't very well throw a treat because I'm rewarding his barking. I say Shhh Quiet, he'll stop for 2 seconds, I give him a treat and he barks again. We repeat this continually. He's never really calming down. I'll keep working on it but I don't know if I'm doing it correctly.

[QuickSilver]

Can you play a quick game of fetch with him before you go to the door, maybe tire him out a bit?

Otherwise, as soon as he starts barking, I would take off his harness. Wait two minutes, repeat.

These may not be practical day to day options, but if you say, do it once a week, maybe he'll start noticing that if he's quieter, he gets out for his walk faster and he gets more food.

I think this is part of why barking is so hard to address, when it happens EVERYWHERE, it's hard to correct it consistently.