2 9 week old puppies fighting...help?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by TexasKat08

I feel bad for ratting her out because, although she is a little quirky, I did like Pam Brown - here in Austin. I found her on the YTCA website. I won't buy one of her puppies now simply because she told me I could take her at 9 1/2 weeks (puppies are due in Feb). There were also a couple other random, odd comments she made and we left her house feeling unsettled. I will listen to my head, heart and gut picking my next breeder as I got suckered by my last breeder and now I am the proud owner of a woolly coated "teapot." I love him and he is fabulous and healthy and I hate to complain because I know I could be a lot worse off. I love this sight for how passionate everybody is and how much great advice is out there. I have had several back and forth PMs with both Mary and Donna and if they are willing to spend their time sharing their treasure trove of knowledge I, for one, am willing to listen and am utterly grateful for all their help.

Kathy McCurley
Austin, TX

What a great post, I hope you will also report this to the YTCA, I realize since you didn't actually buy the dogs, it won't be as serious of infraction, but they should still know she's offering to sell the dogs at that time. This is so disappointing, but it takes all of us to help protect these dogs. I really agree with you in that you have to "listen to my head, heart and gut."

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by crayz

So we just brought home our two new puppies. A little girl and a bigger boy. They play great together, sleep together, and follow each other around nonstop.

When they aren't doing the above, they are fighting. Usually it's the little girl torturing the boy but then he responds. They are constantly chasing each other around and biting each other. I've heard its common, but we are worried one will get hurt as they are biting around the face and legs. It doesn't seem like they are necessarily closing their mouths tightly but nonetheless, they are bitting with teeth.

any thoughts on how to stop this, or it is ok?? is there nothing we can do?

We have tried separating them, we have held their mouths with our hands to tell them no....but they aren't getting it.

help

i sold two pups from the same litter many years ago. This is what happened. Three weeks later they brought one back and Igave them their money back for the one. The one that was brought back had a home waiting for him as someone contacted me shortly after they were sold, great home and he went there.
I have never ever again sold two from the same litter again and never will.
I have sold two dogs at one time one a spayed bitch 3 1/2 years the other a neutered male almost a year. That was fine, they were much older dogs and different ages.
I read an ad in the newspaper once of two toy poodles bought at the same time same litter. Their fighting escalated to the point they had to resell one as they could not have them together at all at any time, I guess breeder would not take it back.
It may improve as they get older, it may get much worse.

[TexasKat08]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I really agree with you in that you have to "listen to my head, heart and gut."

Yes, I too have been the victim of falling in love with a puppy photo and ignoring red flags. I bought my first Yorkie without visiting the breeder or even seeing my little guy - just picked him off a website. But she does show dogs and has great lines - he's Durrer, Rothyb's, Lamplighter's - and I trusted her when she told me he only weighed a couple pounds the day before she put him on the plane at 12 weeks. He actually weighed four and is now pushing 11lbs at 4 years old.

[JeanieK]

Thfat is normal puppy play. sometimes they sound like a couple of buzz saws with the growling.

If one gets hurt it wil yelp or cry and the other one should let it go. They learn how hard they can bite through this type of play, so I would not interfere unless one starts to yelp and the other does not let it go.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

i sold two pups from the same litter many years ago. This is what happened. Three weeks later they brought one back and Igave them their money back for the one. The one that was brought back had a home waiting for him as someone contacted me shortly after they were sold, great home and he went there.
I have never ever again sold two from the same litter again and never will.
I have sold two dogs at one time one a spayed bitch 3 1/2 years the other a neutered male almost a year. That was fine, they were much older dogs and different ages.
I read an ad in the newspaper once of two toy poodles bought at the same time same litter. Their fighting escalated to the point they had to resell one as they could not have them together at all at any time, I guess breeder would not take it back.
It may improve as they get older, it may get much worse.

That is interesting, I have sold littermates together and also have bought littermates and have had no problems at all.

I wonder if the problem comes from the humans showing more attention to one over the other. Or if there was no clear pack leader in the house so the pups tried to take over the role and that caused confrontation.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

i sold two pups from the same litter many years ago. This is what happened. Three weeks later they brought one back and Igave them their money back for the one. The one that was brought back had a home waiting for him as someone contacted me shortly after they were sold, great home and he went there.
I have never ever again sold two from the same litter again and never will.
I have sold two dogs at one time one a spayed bitch 3 1/2 years the other a neutered male almost a year. That was fine, they were much older dogs and different ages.
I read an ad in the newspaper once of two toy poodles bought at the same time same litter. Their fighting escalated to the point they had to resell one as they could not have them together at all at any time, I guess breeder would not take it back.
It may improve as they get older, it may get much worse.

Joey's breeder felt the same way, two at one time is asking for trouble.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by TexasKat08

Yes, I too have been the victim of falling in love with a puppy photo and ignoring red flags. I bought my first Yorkie without visiting the breeder or even seeing my little guy - just picked him off a website. But she does show dogs and has great lines - he's Durrer, Rothyb's, Lamplighter's - and I trusted her when she told me he only weighed a couple pounds the day before she put him on the plane at 12 weeks. He actually weighed four and is now pushing 11lbs at 4 years old.

Yeah, there's a name for a breeder who does that! I've tried to warn people to watch out when a breeder "name drops", this is different than showing a pedigree, they are just marketing well known names, that have some sort of "status" behind them, and the average pet buyer is taken in by this. Glad you accepted your baby no matter what size he is, I've read threads where buyers wanted to return the dog because he grew to 7 pounds.

[TexasKat08]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yeah, there's a name for a breeder who does that! I've tried to warn people to watch out when a breeder "name drops", this is different than showing a pedigree, they are just marketing well known names, that have some sort of "status" behind them, and the average pet buyer is taken in by this. Glad you accepted your baby no matter what size he is, I've read threads where buyers wanted to return the dog because he grew to 7 pounds.

Actually, we got a 4 generation pedigree from the breeder and there are 12 champions in his line, including 6 Durrer dogs, Lamplighter's Fonzi and Rothby's ReneeGade. We also got an AKC certified pedigree that appears to back this up. He has a picture perfect face - he could be a Yorkie model - with very well proportioned features. His topline is good and he has a the cutest little gait. He is completely healthy and has a very loving and gentle but playful temperament We honestly couldn't ask for a better pet.

But he's way bigger than we anticipated and his coat is so wavy and mats so easily I keep it cut short. I know breeder's don't guarantee weight or coat quality. But just doubling the weight at 12 weeks and adding a pound (just one of the ways I have seen to guesstimate adult weight) we anticipated him to be 5-6 pounds, which is exactly what we wanted. It just felt like highway robbery to accept that we had paid $1500 for a dog that was going to be so much heavier than breed standard.

I will only buy from a breeder that is breeding for the sole purpose of getting that next show dog. I think this is the best way to ensure the puppy will be bred to the breed standard or beyond. I will not buy a puppy that is being bred for the sole purposes of being sold, even if it is form a "reputable" breeder listed on the YTCA website (I have spoken to 3 of those so far!).

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by TexasKat08

Actually, we got a 4 generation pedigree from the breeder and there are 12 champions in his line, including 6 Durrer dogs, Lamplighter's Fonzi and Rothby's ReneeGade. We also got an AKC certified pedigree that appears to back this up. He has a picture perfect face - he could be a Yorkie model - with very well proportioned features. His topline is good and he has a the cutest little gait. He is completely healthy and has a very loving and gentle but playful temperament We honestly couldn't ask for a better pet.

But he's way bigger than we anticipated and his coat is so wavy and mats so easily I keep it cut short. I know breeder's don't guarantee weight or coat quality. But just doubling the weight at 12 weeks and adding a pound (just one of the ways I have seen to guesstimate adult weight) we anticipated him to be 5-6 pounds, which is exactly what we wanted. It just felt like highway robbery to accept that we had paid $1500 for a dog that was going to be so much heavier than breed standard.

I will only buy from a breeder that is breeding for the sole purpose of getting that next show dog. I think this is the best way to ensure the puppy will be bred to the breed standard or beyond. I will not buy a puppy that is being bred for the sole purposes of being sold, even if it is form a "reputable" breeder listed on the YTCA website (I have spoken to 3 of those so far!).

You need to read this thread before you put all your confidence in show people claiming to only breed for the next show dog. There are people that claim that even on here but just be wary. This thread kind of died out when the general YT population began to question. Wonder why?

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...r-litters.html

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

That is interesting, I have sold littermates together and also have bought littermates and have had no problems at all.

I wonder if the problem comes from the humans showing more attention to one over the other. Or if there was no clear pack leader in the house so the pups tried to take over the role and that caused confrontation.

Nice try but that doesn't fly at all. I spend a lot of time with puppies and so did the buyers. They were a family of four. Most reputable breeders I know do not sell two from the same litter for that very reason, they got one back as it didn't work out. Being in the show world, my experience is very widespread talking to show breeders with other breeds, many of them do not sell two from the same litter either.
i would never purchase two from the same litter either. I would be looking for the best so would not need to have two. i have bought 3 dogs in 15 years as I have access to the best stud dogs there are to breed my girls.
People I have taken my training for show rings from usually recommend not to even keep two from the same litter because of issues and some breeders don't keep two from the same litter for that reason. i have on occasion and right now have two lovely girls that I am very tempted to keep both of them, against my own advice. But so it goes.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Nice try but that doesn't fly at all. I spend a lot of time with puppies and so did the buyers. They were a family of four. Most reputable breeders I know do not sell two from the same litter for that very reason, they got one back as it didn't work out. Being in the show world, my experience is very widespread talking to show breeders with other breeds, many of them do not sell two from the same litter either.
i would never purchase two from the same litter either. I would be looking for the best so would not need to have two. i have bought 3 dogs in 15 years as I have access to the best stud dogs there are to breed my girls.
People I have taken my training for show rings from usually recommend not to even keep two from the same litter because of issues and some breeders don't keep two from the same litter for that reason. i have on occasion and right now have two lovely girls that I am very tempted to keep both of them, against my own advice. But so it goes.

Really, so selling littermates to the same home makes one not reputable?

I have had no trouble with the two that I have, and neither have the people that I sold 2 littermate to. Any two dogs have the potential to NOT get along. The two that I have that do not get along are totally unrelated.

So all of these breeders that have told you not to do it, have they done it with bad results and know first hand, or is this just some old breeders tale that is being passed along?

I can tell you first hand that it doesn't make any difference. some dogs get along, some don't. And it is more likely that it is due to not having a strong human pack leader in the home.

[lfbussell]

I don't understand many of you--when someone comes on here and asks a question or for help and mentions the age of their pup, if it is under 12 weeks so many of you go off on a tangent on the age of the pup. They already own the pup so what's the point???
Many people sell all breeds of puppies at 8 weeks, sometimes less, with no harm done. I have bred dogs before and many times the mother wanted nothing to do with the pups after she weaned them-usually around 6 weeks!
I bought my Tessa when she was 7 weeks from a private party, not a 'show breeder". No problems ever!!
So why not just help people instead of 'going off'??????

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Really, so selling littermates to the same home makes one not reputable?

I have had no trouble with the two that I have, and neither have the people that I sold 2 littermate to. Any two dogs have the potential to NOT get along. The two that I have that do not get along are totally unrelated.

So all of these breeders that have told you not to do it, have they done it with bad results and know first hand, or is this just some old breeders tale that is being passed along?

I can tell you first hand that it doesn't make any difference. some dogs get along, some don't. And it is more likely that it is due to not having a strong human pack leader in the home.

That is not what I said. What makes you think you are reputable I guess is up to you. What I said was FROM MY OWN experience, I would not recommend it, I warn enquirers looking for two from the same litter not to do it. No this is not some old breeders tale being passed along, again from considerable years of EXPERIENCE, the best teacher.
I had one lady contact me that had lived elsewhere now in the area I lived at the time. Her two were littermates and now two years old. She had a heck of a time with them still. I could offer no solutions and don't know what she ended up doing. Some end up surrendering one or both by selling or turning them over to rescues, spca's whatever because they cannot deal with it anymore and the breeder will not take one or both back.
Again, I would not do it myself, buy two from the same litter and am wary of keeping two because I need to put my all into the pup I have and if I am buying I would be purchasing the best of what is available and if it is suitable for what I want for the show rings and to improve and add to my line that I have worked hard at to breed to the standard not just trying to fill my kennel with breeders.
Indeed what one person decides to do is entirely up to the individual. If it works for you go for it but I am merely posting to make people aware of the pitfalls. Is that a bad idea? Well I guess it could be for those that want to sell more than one to a buyer, kinda cuts into the sales.
here is the real clincher. I have turned down people wanting to buy two at once and if they passed my interview I would sell them one not two. Some have walked away determined to buy two from a litter. Go for it, not from me they wont. Yep sure cut into my sale but a lot less headache for me meanwhile each that I did sell separately went to fabulous homes and got the one on one attention.
And no I still would not sell them one if they were buyine one elsewhere about the same age and then wanted one from me.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

What do you do? Lie in wait for me to post so you can start attacking again? Maybe you need to put me on ignore if my posts bother you. And as far as someone needing to think before typing. That works both ways. Some people need to make sure the rumors and gossip they post about people are true. Just sayin" Why turn this thread into a battleground Jodie. I only looked at this thread because I have a nine week old and a ten week old that fight and play all the time. But it seems the OP has taken care of his problem. Why did you come on the thread? To attack me, of course.

I hear ya Dee. Apparently I'm and unfit breeder because I sold littermates to the same home.

I'm glad you directed the OP to that thread.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by lfbussell

I don't understand many of you--when someone comes on here and asks a question or for help and mentions the age of their pup, if it is under 12 weeks so many of you go off on a tangent on the age of the pup. They already own the pup so what's the point???
Many people sell all breeds of puppies at 8 weeks, sometimes less, with no harm done. I have bred dogs before and many times the mother wanted nothing to do with the pups after she weaned them-usually around 6 weeks!
I bought my Tessa when she was 7 weeks from a private party, not a 'show breeder". No problems ever!!
So why not just help people instead of 'going off'??????

Because we are trying to do the best for the breed and the puppy. What better way is there than to try to educate via a public forum.
Reputable breeders do not sell that young period. By experience of long time breeders we find it best if they do not leave the breeders at that young an age. There is the socialization to be done at the breeders, vaccinations as a pup should never elave until at least the first two puppy series are done whcih are not started in so small a breed until 10 weeks.
Also the stress of weaning, no longer having the mom to nurse from etc add a new home/environment, the immune system drops leaving the pup susceptible to problems that a pet owner will not recognize too readily and some Vets are not in tune to. How many on this forum bought pups at a young age and have had a really bad time, huge vet bills, and in some cases, lost the pup it died. Cant turn that one around once it is dead.
Those that sell them young do so because,
1. often command higher prices
2. once mom is done the breeders work escalates big time to keep the puppies clean, fed and cleaned, feed the front end clean up after the back end.
3. breeder doesn't have to do any training.
4. breeder doesn't have to handle the laundry of washing beds, pee pads, etc with pups.
5. pup dies, breeder will blame you where it could have been preventable or their was a problem in the first place.
A grooming client I had had bought her yorkie at 7 weeks. She was ongoing ill and finally diagnosed with liver shunt. A heck of a lot of money later she still lost her at 4 years. That pup should never have been sold.
By 12 or 14 weeks it likely would have been more obvious that there is a problem.
Selling young also can hide health issues because they have not quite manifested yet.