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My mindset is that I love my dogs, I just don't love everything they do. (Works well with people and children too) I came to that realization with my 'new' Peek a Boo on my lap one evening. We had a really bad day, he did everything wrong, and I wasn't able to lavish praise on him the whole day. He may have been yelled at a few times. I was so frustrated with him, I was questioning whether or not I should keep him or return him. Then, as I sat there with him on my lap, I apologized and told him I had promised to love him, and I would. So every night from that day on, we had our nighttime routine, where I would tell him I loved him and that he was a very good boy... even if I had to lie to myself about it, and I kissed him on the side of his face. He never kissed back, and I thought that was odd, and I began to think he just wasn't a 'kissing dog'. But that was okay with me. Some things you just can't change. It was sad though, because when I said the words 'Good Boy', his reaction told me that he had never heard these words before, or had forgotten what they meant. Telling him he was a 'Good Boy' also allowed him to feel good about himself, and really helped him with his confidence. Soon, the bad days started disappearing, and the good days were vastly outnumbering the bad. I truly believe this is the one, most important thing I did with him, the one thing that made the biggest difference in turning his behavior around. Eight months later, during our routine (I kept it up), I kissed his cheek, and he turned his head toward mine, and licked my cheek. I cried tears of joy and sadness, sadness because something that happened to him caused him to withhold his love for all that time. And we still do the routine to this day, and he gets his kiss and I get mine! I've read many mention the puppymill concern... I believe I read that DF got Bdog as a puppy from a pet store. The concern is that puppymills dogs are kept in kennels all their lives, and it is not recommended to keep an older puppymill dog in a kennel once it is in it's forever home. As Bdog was a puppy, she may not have been as traumatized by a kennel as an older breeder would have been, so I think it will not cause her any additional trauma to keep her in a kennel for short periods of time, as needed. |
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They were both part of a puppy mill seizure the beginning of September. Reno was literally seized from the puppy mill by animal control, taken in by LDR with the others that were seized, and taken to the vet, then brought to me for fostering. We figure he is 8-9 years old, and he had spent all his life in a kennel (probably sharing a cage with several other small dogs). For the first few days we had to keep him penned up in the living room until we could evaluate how Beamer and Lil Bit would get on with him, and to make sure he was safe when our grandchildren came over. To get him out of the pen we had to literally reach in, pick him up and carry him out. When we got him out of the pen permanently he kept going back in - he thought that was where he was supposed to be. We had to close the gate on the pen so he couldn't go back in there. It didn't take him long to realize that he was "free" and could go wherever he wanted in the house. He found the doggie door, went into the yard and did several laps around the yard, he looked so happy and free. He has not been penned since. (he did have to go in a carrier when LDR took him back while we went on our vacation - and he hated that, even though it was only for the ride back to Orlando to another volunteer's home) I think it would be traumatic for him to ever be kenneled again. Happily he is now in his forever home and will live "free" for the rest of his life. (Clover has also been adopted) |
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Eukanuba (spelling probably off) is the brand she gets. I can't believe a name unique like that slipped my mind, but that's the brand. Is this not suggested? She seems to like it, but as a veterinarian told me once, chicken feathers are made up of mostly protein, but you can't live off of them. I would like to make sure she is getting fed with good food. She doesn't get table scraps, but an occasional piece of chicken or meat when she is behaving and in calm behavior. Since I'm not at the apartment and back at my shop, my fiance is doing the work with the training for the weekend. She says she is having a hard time getting her do do the things we discussed (sitting before going through a door and speaking to get outside). She had to do the ring around the table and room because she didn't want to go in the crate while my fiance left for work. I believe my fiance was saying that since I have left, her behavior has noticeably went a little worse. I didn't mention that I too have been just talking to her (Bdog) if it's just to say how a school problem is kind of difficult or to tell her that she's loved. I ask her questions about engineering and other things, only to get a cocked head look and a quick shift of the feet. We've been petting her more and I've been asking her about specific toys to bring me. She has a frog she loves and I'll ask where her frog is, when she brings me a ball, I say "I said frog, where is the frog? Put the ball down and find the frog" and she'll search for it. We keep repeating until she brings the frog. We play with that for a few minutes and I'll ask her for the rope. (this was all Monday when I was home and Tuesday after I got done packing and was waiting for my fiance to get home.) Now, when she goes in the crate or kennel, should we put a blanket over it or has anyone had any more luck with leaving a light on for them? It's pretty much dark other than the street lights flooding the apartment through the windows. Would a little light help calm the anxiety or would that enhance it thinking we were there but not letting her out? How about a radio or something to break up the silence? Has that helped anyone? |
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I apologize. The crate - we don't have much for living space that will be easy to clean. After asking the fiance about pee pads, she shreds them. I haven't looked into the ex pen just yet, I will do so. Do you or anyone have a suggestion on averting the shredding behavior on the pee pads? I have used this trick on most of the dogs I have worked and trained. As a pup and through training, when being naughty, flip them over on their back, but the hand on the throat (not squeezing tight, but gentle pressure with fingertips to mimic teeth), putting your face next to your hand and growling...like and alpha does. They usually just freeze until you let them up a few seconds later. Does anyone use this or have any experience with it? I have not done this with Bdog yet because she has bitten before. I haven't been too goofy with her, but when we train, I'm sitting on the floor as long as I can (previous accident, back can't take a lot of floor time). When we train, I don't stand over her, I'm on my knees. We establish eye contact too. Oh, another question - how often do you bathe the Yorkies? Do they have a naturally oilier coat or a pretty dry one? I think she needs more frequent baths though she gets on every time she messes in the crate. It seems like she gets oilier faster than most other dogs I know. Not to bother, but I could really use the info on how much to feed her. I would love to hear everyone's weight and amounts you feed to get a good idea on how much to give her. |
You could do better than Eukanuba. There are quite a few threads on YT about foods. Better brands can be found at Petco, PetsMart, and online. Look at some of the stickies at the beginning of each forum, and in the YT Library. Bdog is just reverting to the way it has been with DF all along... may take some persistance on DF's part to get Bdog to listen to her. Tell her not to give up, just do the best she can. As Bdog becomes more responsive to training, she will eventually listen better. Does DF give Bdog a treat (a few Cheerios) for going in the kennel? Need more info on her behavior when she is crated. Does she carry on, or will she settle down? You could try what you mentioned when you are there to see how she reacts. There is a CD out of calming music for dogs, so music may help her. Covering the cage does help some... would be worth a try. A night light may help, also. |
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Oh, we hang our coats up out of reach. I was just illustrating her behavior and what she likes to tear up. I would have though shoes and such would be on the menu, but she's good with them. I'm glad, I'd be lost without my Birks... I'll make sure to look into better food when she's doing a bit better in the working and after we make some headwind. I have suggested to my fiance to start coming home for her breaks at work and she says it's impossible even though she's only about 15 minutes away. She's in health care and never knows when her breaks will be and for how long. I do understand though, she's pretty busy at work. Things will be a bit better too when I'm not in school and working a day shift and not have to worry about study groups and work around my schooling. I would home that my fiance would be able to find a transfer to first shift as well to make sure we aren't just meeting in bed and not see each other. I agree on keeping the night time crating going. Judging by her actions, I'd hate to get the teeth again for shifting in bed - not to mention the sneak attack... I can't get my fiance to acknowledge though that the dog doesn't need a heaping bowl of food at every sitting. I tried weighing out what she is supposed to eat and then weighing out the same portion for a person by a linear interpolation...1 ounce of food as suggested for a dog of 9 or 10 pounds and 16 ounces for a person of 160 pounds...that's a lot of kibble I would have to eat in comparison! She didn't see what I was doing there, maybe some of you do? I then weighed out the amount of food she wants to give her in one sitting, roughly a little over 2 ounces so that would make more than 32 ounces of kibble for a person to eat in one sitting...yeah, that's a LOT of kibble. You have to figure we eat between 8 to 12 ounces of a meat and some side dishes on a full on dinner out an about...more or less pending on who you are...but still, even with a visual tool like measuring out the food she still thinks that she will starve to death. Any way to help get her on the same page as this? Do you think a trainer would back me up on the feeding issue? Maybe I'm wrong? I have read that over feeding can illicit digestive problems and she could go more in shorter periods of time - which makes perfect sense to me. Still reading and learning, keep the suggestions coming if you have them. |
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Seriously, I'd get the xpen that Wyliesmom pointed out to you, I have one in addition to the larger one that we use in the bedroom. This smaller one should work in your apartment. I'd throw out the crate and just use this xpen. It would work perfect for one small Yorkie. You can fold one washable pee pad in half and it will fit on one side (RDB911) sells them in bulk at a great price, and she can't shred them. Hook a water bottle on the other side with a bed and some toys. Make that her special place and it'll be great for bed and when you have to leave her for any length of time. You can feed her in there. Give her treats in there. Make it a place she wants to go. |
Eukanuba isn't that great of a brand. She needs a good holistic brand. Here are a few brands you can you look into... Life's Abundance Blue Buffalo Innova Honest Kitchen Wellness You can do a search on here and see the different kinds of quality food everyone feeds. Just remember you need a food with no fillers, artificial flavors/colors, no corn and one that isn't too high in protein. Also you may want to avoid chicken as well, some yorkies are prone to have an allergy towards chicken and corn. As for the shredding of the pee pads, either buy washable ones or a pad holder that keeps the pad in place so she can't get to it so easily to shred it. Never try the alpha roll on her, it will do far more damage to her. It should only be used on highly aggressive large breeds and even then I am not a fan of it and would never do it. In the wild or in dog terms, when another dog flips another on their back (the alpha roll) it is usually done to kill them. Doing this can cause more aggression (because they now fear you and try to defend themselves) or it will cause more submission such as submissive urinating. |
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I use those same treats when working at the door for the speak. I break them in half and she gets the first one on the way out to reinforce the speak at the door. When she speaks, I open the door first and give her the treat on the way outside, hoping the speak, then through the door, then getting the treat rather than speak, get the treat and then open the door. Once she starts getting the speak down, I'm going to walk her to the next door and have her sit to go through...then the treat. I'm hoping to get her used to the idea that getting outside in the pattern will reinforce the idea of barking at the door when she wants to go outside. I talked to her tonight when she texted me about having issues with getting her to work with the headway I was having. I told her the same thing, don't give up, keep working on it and don't get discouraged. We'll work on it together so that she will understand that one of us isn't soft. She seems to behave when she's in the crate. I know that she will start barking a lot when we leave .I've forgotten books and my lunch box and had to come back in and you can hear her in the hallway carrying on. When she's kenneled and such, she behaves other than when I walk in to go to bed after my fiance has went to sleep. I know now why she's growling and showing teeth - 2 and 2 makes 4 and if she's protective of my fiance in bed, she's trying to protect her through the kennel. It's the only reason I can think of. |
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Now, did I say that she's pooping in the crate 29 times out of 30? Are the pee pads good for that too? I know she's peeing in the house when let free, but after reading the posts and responses by you all, I'm making the connection too that she isn't being taken out enough and that's our fault. If the pee pads will assist us while we retrain ourselves too, that would save some cleaning and discouraging scenarios with the human error. Yes, a nurse - graduating with her bachelors in May. I asked her about the nutrition facts and such, she wasn't a plethora of info, which is why I was online looking it up when she told me the name of the brand a few months ago. I'm grateful for the info and I'm so glad I asked about the alpha rollover idea. That's why I'm here after all. It's a good thing I asked too - thank you very much for the insight. I have spoken with the vet on my previous dogs about the importance of diet on the condition of their skin and coat. Oh, that reminds me - do any of you have issues with allergies and skin on your Yorkies? Bdog has had to do steroids and other things because she gets scabs or something. Please don't tell me this is because of the food. The vet didn't say it was, but I know the even professionals don't know everything all the time. I copy and saved post 180 a while ago to keep the dog food info handy. I'll consult it again when I look up the alternative foods. Now, we already touched base on it, but I want to make sure. Switching food now isn't a good idea or is the brand so undesirable that I should be phasing it out and into a better type immediately? |
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Is putting a water bottle in there a good idea though? I'm not questioning your input, just wondering if it should maybe be something after she shows more progress. Do dogs eat or drink in stress and anxiety? If so, wouldn't that worsen the situation by allowing her to load up and then have to go when we are trying to get her to hold it and go outside? I'd really like to have her not be one of the types to need the pee pads all the time. Absolutely no offense or questioning your idea, just letting my ignorance out and needing clarification. |
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Thank you for taking time to post on your holiday. That goes for everyone too. |
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You nailed a few things on the head there. My talk I had on Tuesday night was a bit frustrating at times because I was trying to get the point across to my fiance that I'm only trying to help and get out of the same routine and out of the rut. At one point I had to flat out ask her if she enjoyed cleaning the crate because I didn't wish to see her denied of life's pleasures. I think she gave up and accepted the impression that the dog would not learn behavior and house breaking. I was met with some resistance on the training and how things aren't working, but I again assured her that it's only an attempt to move forward rather than sitting still. I asked her a few times to come up with ideas too and we'd try them, but most importantly, working together is the only way any plan is going to be successful. By the end of our talk, we both were more tuned on what the other is thinking and we both parted each others company on good terms on high prospects. You are correct too that I could have done a large number of other things, but I'm accepting the challenge and I'm not being discouraged by anything. I'm going to get this done one way or another. I'd much rather be in consult with those that have the most experience and a place like this is a resource I am honored to have at my fingertips. I did some poorly thought out things and I am certainly not proud of a lot of them (dogs and beyond), but if anyone out there is perfect in every aspect of life, please tell me your name and how you do it. |
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I don't know if I've said it, but if not....Welcome to YT - I've learned a ton of information from this post. With your determination, I'm sure you, your DF, and BDog will be on track in no time! |
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To answer your questions: --We use washable pee pads - they're great! Plus, better for the enviro. The little xpen I linked you to is only 3'x3'x23" high. So, it's a *great* size for a limited space. I bought this one for when Pfeiffer first got home, and it's a perfect size. --The 'rolling the dog on its back' trick is considered less as an alpha move, and more as a very fear-invoking move. Remember the wolf-pack thing: wolves don't really have to 'roll/force' other dogs onto their backs. Rather, once submission is established, the submissive wolf rolls HIMSELF onto his own back and then looks to the dominant wolf. So, it's a move of choice. In the dog trng world, forcing a dog onto it's back is now considered rather anti-productive bc it's such a fearful, unnatural (when forced, rather than chosen) position. The 'throat' ie neck thing should be done on the back of the neck, never the front. It's really meant to be a subtle, stabilizing move. --Bathing - some bathe every 2-3 weeks and for most, that's fine. If your kiddo has skin issues, then it's better to bathe every 3 days (if severe), or 1x per week if skin issues are present, but not greatly interfering w/ QOL. --Feeding is guided first by the instructions on the product, then, feed to condition. The instructions are really an 'average'; so, to condition means - feed more or less, depending on body condition (feel her ribs/torso to assess). Quote:
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So I changed my method to giving her belly rubs as she laid on her side, and now after a month or two, the little monkey jumps onto the bed and flips herself over onto her back for the belly rub. Total different scenario, and she loves it! Here a pic of an enclosed unit... yes, it doubles as a cat hammock:Attachment 331856 In summary: She should be checked by her vet. I would change her food to the LID, and get her on a probiotic/digestive enzymes: Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details= (This is what I use). Sometimes dogs can develope an overgrowth of bad bacteria in their gut, which can cause inappropriate/frequent elimination. Also, her allergy may be affecting her intestines and her skin, and her current food could be triggering her allergy. She may need a course of antibiotics to get her gut under control, then the probiotics help to keep it controlled. You have to fix what goes in before you can fix what comes out. If this is the problem, in a month you will see improvement in her coat also. In defense of premium brand dog foods: One can buy cheaper food and treat for the allergy and pay the vet, or one can buy a premium food which improves general health, and require less frequent vet visits. ***If you buy a premium dog food at Petco or PetsMart, and your dog cannot tolerate it or refuses to eat it, they will give you a refund on the remaining amount in the bag. My four weight between 7 and 14 pounds. They eat Life's Abundance and are fed twice daily. They get from 1/4 to 1/2 cup (dry moistened with water and mixed with canned) two times daily, with probiotics and a dash of coconut oil. |
[QUOTE=Wylie's Mom;3339885] --The 'rolling the dog on its back' trick is considered less as an alpha move, and more as a very fear-invoking move. Remember the wolf-pack thing: wolves don't really have to 'roll/force' other dogs onto their backs. Rather, once submission is established, the submissive wolf rolls HIMSELF onto his own back and then looks to the dominant wolf. So, it's a move of choice. In the dog trng world, forcing a dog onto it's back is now considered rather anti-productive bc it's such a fearful, unnatural (when forced, rather than chosen) position. The 'throat' ie neck thing should be done on the back of the neck, never the front. It's really meant to be a subtle, stabilizing move. :thumbup::thumbup: What I have observed and this with the larger dogs, after all I only have one Yorkie:) is that there is a very rich body language by all dogs in a pack. One day when I was picking up my young Magic from boarding with his trainer, all the dogs maybe 7 or so were doing fine in the kitchen, big beasties all of them, rotties, great pyrenees, bull mastiff, well you get the idea, then I opened the door to go outside, oh boy thought i was going to be thrown off my feet by the ensuing rush of bodies. Well my young Magic made it out the door first, which the pack considered a No No. The two largest males, flipped him off his feet, then the rottie came in with a hell of a serious growl, all the dogs were surrounding Magic. Mike the trainer got out that door fast and broke it up. The problem was Magic wasn't staying down, like the pack wanted him to, and he was growling back. I've observed over many play sessions this flip with a dog that doesn't "know" it's place. When Magic gets exasperated with our young female, he will flip her off her feet then stand right by her, and she then usually rolls on her back for a few seconds or so. :D Up she comes and off she goes to play again. lol Dogs will turn head away from a dog that gets too frisky, then turn shoulders and finally body away until the other dog "gets" the message. To destress they will yawn and or lick their lips. We all know the play bow to invite play. It is interesting to watch a pack at play. |
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The water bottle is like the kind you use for hamsters and guinea pigs. I laughed too when I first heard of it. But it is wonderful. I can't remember for certain where I got mine, (Mom to Hot Rod?) Please someone jump in here? It is a double nozzle one, that came with its own little bottle. Nozzles inside and outside the pen so they can grab a drink either way. The reason is so there is no tipping or fouling of the water bowl. The water stays clean and their beards don't get wet and yeasty. Works great. The nozzles are, of course, much bigger than for a hamster... I have mine hooked to the xpen, some YTers have really cool setup floor models. Feeding on a schedule is a personal choice and depends on your dog. Whatever the case maybe, your dog needs to always have fresh water available. If you feel that she cannot hold her bladder through the night, then some people remove liquids after a certain hour at night, just remove the bottle. But, during the day, water should always be available. I've never done the roll. I think it is a deeply ingrained instinctive thing. But I do lightly curl my fingers and cup my hand over the back of their neck and upper back and ever so gently press when I say a stern no. I've done that once in a great while to get their attention when things have gotten seriously out of hand. That was when they were young and I thought they were going to kill each other and thought I had to calm them down. LOL. I know better now. They just wrestle and play very hard. I learn more from watching Bear discipline them. When they first came into the house and they annoyed him horribly and they were 3mths old, he would air bite a foot above their heads. Now he gets along with them great. But once in awhile, they do get on his more mature nerves, as when he's trying to nap and they want to examine his nostrils and I have witnessed him actually do the same thing with his mouth. Gently place it over their back and neck and push down at which point he releases they rollover, get up and walk away. They know and he goes back to napping. Fascinating.... Way different breeds, sizes....still dogs!!!! |
Is she currently on steroids? If so, steroids will cause a marked increase in water consumption (short explanation: this is the body's response in attempting to dilute the steroid-induced increased sugar concentration in the blood) which causes a spillover effect - quite literally - in the form of excess urination. Something to consider when looking at her potty schedule. I agree with changing diet and trying to get her allergies under control without the use of steroids. Not healthy at all. Yorkies can by trying little things :rolleyes: Good luck. |
It is neat how different breeds, different sizes and different personalities can present themselves, but they still know what's going on between them. I've asked my 'heeler at home to talk to Bdog and just let her know what I'm doing, but he must not understand me either sometimes...however, I did just manage to teach him to put his toys away on command. No joke, "put the ball away and get the rope" ends up with the ball in the basket and about half the time I get the rope...we are still working on it. At least the toys are getting put back in (or really close to) the basket. We've been working on that for a little while here and there. I'll admit, the 'heeler has been the easiest dog I have ever trained so I guess Karma is showing me how it works...on dog needs a lot of work, the other not much at all....both about a year and a half within each others age. No, I think the steroids have been administered and are done as of a few weeks ago. The peeing isn't the problem in the crate so much for the long periods of time away (like fiance at work and me at school). Like I said, it seems like 29 out of 30 times is a chalupa in the crate. Occasionally there is pee problem, but poop is the majority. Maybe Santa will get the pup a new house in our home. We'll have to just see about that. |
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I would definitely check with a vet, have some tests done to see if there is something medically wrong with her. I would also get rid of the crate all together, you can go hit up a garage sale or a flea market to see if they have a baby gate or a baby play pen that you may be able to throw a fitted sheet over the top of (in case she is a climber) and use that instead. That way she has an area where she can "go" if she needs to and her humans aren't home to take her out, and she'll have a comfy bed to sleep in that stays clean. It will help cut down on how much you have to wash her and will be a cozy place to chill when she has to. |
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