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celstu1, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for the kind words. I hate to say it, but with as kind and loving as dog owners are, it's nice to find those that can look past the wrongs and find the right in here. I don't always communicate the best, but I'm glad to know that there are people like you out there. Have a happy holiday! To the rest with doubt and anger, I'll just go with the idea that nothing nice to say should remain unsaid. |
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I'm responding as I'm reading the new posts, so I apologize for the rapid postings. I am a very, very busy person...and if you go back and look at the posts, times and responses, you'll see that I have invested time in this...and with my duties, I don't have a lot of spare time. I love wrenching on cars, I'm currently using my engineering schooling to design new parts in the industry work I do - put it this way, I cater to our men and women fighting for our country and the law enforcement officers that keep us safe at home. I have my business, I have my fiance, I have school, I have little alone time - so with all of my interests and hobbies/duties - do you all think that I'm here just to lie and ruffle the feathers?? After your last post, I really am touched that it appears that I'm being seen for what I am. I'll clue you in a little more on why I'm not quick to put myself out there altogether. I'm acting as anonymous because animal neglect and abuse is a FELONY. Now, I'm not nervous in any way that I am at risk of ANY conviction, but all it would take is some yahoo thinking they were acting on a noble deed to start an investigation which would put my business at a screeching halt while any investigation was taking place. THEN, I have to fight to get my business back into operation. Then, I get to drop a bunch of money on the lawyer and file charges on the person that started the investigation. So, it's kind of serious that I don't give somebody the opportunity to get smart because I disciplined a dog in a manner that is just disagreeable between some owners and others. Now, after doing extensive research, I have found that I was without a doubt wrong and uneducated at the time. I am now, and you should see the work in progress on this dog. I don't doubt she is going to get it now and as my fiance sees the progress, she is going to be on board 100%. Ladyjane, I'm glad one of the patrons on this site forwarded me your posts so I could see them. First, private messaging is private and not for public viewing. I can easily post your things too but I have a higher regard for respect and integrity. I don't care if you saved 100 or 1000 dogs, your conduct and candor is less than honorable towards me. You talked about pitting one member against another, yet you are attempting it yourself. You told me you don't appreciate _______ in your private message, but in the same message, you did the same thing to me. That's awful arrogant and hypocritical, and I don't know why you continue and persist. Please leave me alone, or check your feelings at the door and offer suggestions that don't involve removing the dog. I'll admit, I was angry when I started my membership, but I think it's clear to see that anger is often accompanied through frustration and ignorance. If you can't see me through my posts and intent, then you need some Lasik or something. If you think I'm referring to you in my posts, I don't know what to say - you've been on ignore...and I'm not that petty. I apologize for the harm done up until now. If you continue, that's on you. If you would like to move on, I'm more than interested. |
I was told by another patron in my posts that I have come off cold, "point in fact" and so on. I do get that a lot more as I have conversed with a great many people in my career as a student and business owner. I know I've said it before, but please let me say it again. I don't know everything, I'm not a master of anything, I'm always learning and I go through life learning the lessons of my mistakes more than what I've learned through my successes. I don't know all of the answers and when I hit a brick wall, I don't look to see how to tear it down, I look for the proper way to get over or around it. I am accepting of criticism, but I'm hard to accept chastising for mistakes. I have a hard time when somebody tells me I'm wrong without showing me why or how. I hold the idea close to heart that if my way isn't good, please show me your way so I can see how it's supposed to be. Looking through the posts and reading, back through this - it has been difficult knowing why I started my membership and asking for ideas and help to only hear about how I would get beat up or left if I hit your dogs. I get that, and I understand the sincerity of your feelings...but it was frustrating because I had failed on so many levels on getting this dog situation started on a prospective path. I also had 2 tests I needed to study for on Monday and Tuesday, so my time and responses were around my studies along with regular class schedules. I am still here, I've learned so much and we've developed a plan to keep moving forward. I may not always communicate the best, especially over a manner which one doesn't see facial expressions and tones of voice, which is an important part of dialogue, but I'll try better. Some people have expressed knowledge of an engineers attitude...knowing this and reading my posts, I must seem pretty on par with your experiences. I hope I can be looked at in better light, I'm really not a horrible person. |
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I offered plenty of constructive suggestions. Funny how you ignore them and focus on other stuff. AND...funny how you manage to ignore when others say the same things I do. I see what you are doing. :) Honestly, I don't care except that I hate what people like you try to do to YT. If you REALLY want to help your fiance and her dog, get back to discussing that..and same to your "patron friends" . :) Really does not sound like you or they are interested in the dog..only in another "agenda" that has been seen before. Carry on ... :) This IS about "the dog" is it not? :) If not, then you should close this thread. :) Or someone should. |
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If you are so short on free time then why is it you can expound at length about what a great person you are and all you do for the country, etc., etc. and hardly ever mention the dog in so many posts when she is supposed to be the reason you came here in the first place. You are a button pusher. You push your fiancee's buttons your dog's buttons and now you are here pushing ours. I'm out of it. To LadyJane and the rest who are trying your best I commend you. I've just been down this road before. Any other boards would probably consider him a troll. He has a lot more spare time than he lets on or he wouldn't be here. |
this thread is just getting out of hand now and should probably be closed. the bickering is just going to continue on both sides. OP, you got a lot of great advice here for re-training your fiance's yorkie. I hope you use it. If you have more questions along the way, don't hesitate to ask in a new thread. I really don't think you're going to get much else out of this particular thread. |
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I couldn't even see the PM he sent me the other day unless I hit "View Message" - didn't want to do that, so just deleted it. I can imagine what he had to say. I just cannot abide anyone who would abuse an animal. And hitting a dog is abuse. |
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I have one thing to say----- :happythx: |
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and Happy Thanksgiving to Everyone! |
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:cheers: to you too :D |
You can have a professional trainer come to your house to help sort out and correct issues. That way the trainer can work with all 3 of you to help resolve the issues. Try to find one who specials in small breed dogs. Sometimes it helps to have a professional opinion. Yorkies do better with positive reinforcement training. Good luck. |
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My personal opinion is that I think you and your girlfriend are not on the same page with training, which can be very confusing for the dog. I think you are willing to take the time to try to train her properly, but need to get your girlfriend on the same page. As someone said before, you mentioned wanting kids in the future, but can't get on the same page with training a dog... a child requires more work and a lot more cooperation from both parents. Not a knock, I'm just saying that if you want kids, you two need to work on this issue long and hard before ever getting that far. I think you've been given some great advice. I would talk to the vet and make sure there isn't anything wrong medically and maybe just mention some separation anxiety. I don't think that is the problem, or at least definitely not the whole problem, but I thought I'd throw that out there. I also wholeheartedly agree with the others in saying that a trainer needs consulted, but it will NOT work if you have two people working with a dog, that are not consistent and not on the same page. The dog is going to be confused if one is being consistent and doing the right thing, while the other is doing it half the time, then giving in the other half. As for the growling/biting issue, look back on all the times she's done it and find a common denominator. I know you mentioned something about her chews. She sounds like she is getting protective over them. One of my two yorkies gets like that sometimes. I have to take it away from time to time and tell him "No!" when he growls. I won't give it back unless he's going to be nice. He's usually pretty good about it, but he has his moments. Another thing with the growling, because you have hit her in the past (once again, not a knock, just trying to help), she has probably already learned to fear you some. When dogs are afraid, they act out by growling and biting. They won't do it unless they feel afraid or threatened in some way. If you are going to make this training work, you need to regain her trust. Take her on walks, take her with you to places when you can, and even try to give her little treats for being good. For the tricks she knows, pull out the treats and have her do them sometimes for you and try and teach her some new ones. Most of all, be kind to her and talk nice to her. |
Don't worry all, I won't be proactively looking to further arguments. People who are short sighted with noses stuck in the air are making themselves apparent and finding the ignore list. I'm not mean spirited, I'm not a dog hater, I'm not anything that I have been called. I'm honest and looking for help. Ridiculing me and making your negative judgments is a problem that YOU have to bear. It's hurtful to read, but in the long run, I know the story and many others do too. Hate me - I could care less. Accept me and learn a bit more about me and realize who I am and what I do for people before myself and you will be pleasantly surprised. I came for help and to get a better understanding to the Yorkie Talk, and I have learned so much over the last few days. Some Yorkie owners are sincere, loving and accepting. Others fall into the - I'll just not say anything. I have said my piece here, I have answered questions alluding to my credibility. I don't think this thread should be shut down, I think those that are derailing it should find other places to spend their time and it will be fine. If you don't appreciate my involvement on these forums, I have an idea....use ignore and don't read my stuff. I can do it, I can post instructions on how to do it too if needed. I don't have free time, that's why I'm working over Thanksgiving and it's now 12:30 am and I'm headed back out to the shop. I do have time to address problems that need to be handled and if I have to get less work done in my shop to address my investment of time on these forums and work at getting a better idea on how to train and work this pup, then so be it. Please, for God's sake...let's move ahead and keep working at this. I obviously need support here which is why I'm here. If you choose not to help, that's fine. If you aren't going to help, why derail it because you don't like me? Is that helping the dog any? Is that helping my fiance any? Screw my feelings on the matter... I have put myself out here on every level but giving you the information to know what I do, where I live and what our names are. I ask for honest suggestions and I get honest impressions on me. I will read back through the messages and posts and address the ones That were posted on a positive note and respond. I apologize for the delay, but as I said, I had 2 test earlier this week. I'll keep you all posted, even those that don't care. Please just keep the negative comments to yourself. I'm sure you know that the rules of the forum apply to me, but they do apply to you all too so let's all stay civil and not cause any future problems. |
First of all I would take that crate and throw it in the trash, it sounds to me like you have one very unhappy yorkie. Maybe some thought should be put into what can be done so this yorkie can live out a happier life (maybe the best solution is to place it within another home) then also you and your girl friend can be happier too. Training takes a lot of patience and time, which starts in the beginning and not six and half years later. In situations such as this I feel very sorry for the dog and not the owner. Good luck to your doggie, I hope the best to be for it. Patti and Jack |
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She doesn't get diarrhea when this happens, it must be the anxiety causing spasms or something along the digestive track making her speed up the need to go rather than vindictive. (This is one of my ignorant ideas that I was clueless on). I'll make sure that my fiance speaks with the vet about doing a checkup to make sure all the plumbing is good if I can't go for whatever reason. As far as the same page goes, I was supposed to be back home to get into my work about 1am because I waited for her to get home from work. I wanted to show her the progress and using the speak in order to go outside so she would try doing it over the weekend I was going to be gone. It became a 3 hour talk about working together. She got pretty defensive about things and we talked a great deal about where I am thinking and where she is thinking. I explained, with the help of those posting here, a lot of what I have learned and what we should try to do. I didn't tell her to do anything though she felt like I was...which she said was her problem. I swear, I was presenting things to her on a level of which I'm not going to bark orders, I want to try doing some things and it won't work unless she is helping. I also asked her to come up with ideas too and I'll work with her as well. Another patron of this site mentioned that women don't like being told how to raise their children or pets...and that statement is very true. We also spoke about kids and I brought up the fact that if we can't work together on this dog, how are kids even going to be possible? I love kids, my nephews and nieces will drop anything they are doing to spend time with me and I try to do something with them at every opportunity I can - which, sadly isn't anywhere as much as I would like to. We weren't fighting, but we weren't smiling through this talk, but by the end of the conversation, we were smiling and joking and it was a good situation. I just wish it wasn't 4:30 in the morning when I got to my shop and started working. I went to bed about 6 and got up at 10 to get back to work. I think I have established the source on the biting idea. I must have been moving too fast around my fiance because I about got it again last night. I was getting ready to leave and when I bent down to give my fiance a kiss, I ran my hand up her leg to her waist for the start of a hug (she was climbing in bed for the evening) and a bolt of gray and cinnamon from the side of the bed to stop with her jaw resting on my hand and a serious look on the face. That may have been the cause of one of the bites anyway. She must be acting in an over protective mode since I'm new in comparison. We'll get this. I know it won't happen overnight, but I'm persistent in anything I do. I think my fiance is on the same page too - and after the talks, I think she had the right idea on some of the training methods she had tried before, I just don't think she was doing them long enough by the suggestions by you all and research I have done. Point in fact, in the conversation last night, she said she tried a trainer...when I asked how many sessions I was told almost 2 weeks. I don't think that's enough with 95% of the dogs out there (not just Yorkies). The dog is in a good home and she will be staying in this home. I hope to be reporting some major changes and exciting new through the next months for you all to read. |
Another warning: Yorkies can be very defensive of their owners in the bed! (Sorry, seems you found this out) Mine still chases and attacks the cats and others Yorkies on the bed, and when he does this, he gets put on the floor. Another Yorkie thing. Don't take it as a set back, she just isn't comfortable with you yet enough ... some never get over it. That behavior may carry over even on the couch, if you're too close to DF, or if you move too quickly around DF. That's a whole separate issue and will need work. For now, have DF gently place her on the floor whenever wherever she reacts like that, as DF is the one Bdog is protecting. This would be one reason for you to take over feeding Bdog for a while. Also best for you to be non-reactive, you don't want to let her know that her agression has any effect on your behavior. When they see something doesn't work, they stop doing it. The first Yorkie I got from the shelter would growl whenever I tried to move her from the bed or couch, when I tried to pick her up. I was so shaken the first couple of times, I left the room so she wouldn't sense my fear. After I composed myself, I went back to her and when she growled again, I acted shocked, and laughed a little, and said 'What, you're going to growl at me? Yeah, right!' It was enough of a distraction and kept me relaxed enough to pick her up without getting bit. Growling is definitely a warning and a bite may follow. Best to diffuse the situation, rather than to let it escalate. When you are all on the couch, and Bdog is accepting your presence, she can have a treat, from DF. You can do that in the bed too. If she gets nasty, DF should put Bdog on the floor, until she relaxes and is friendly again. With Yorkies, this is a form of stress and can cause innappropriate elimination, so I wouldn't push Bdog too far too soon. The easiest and quickest way for you all to bond is by taking walks together. |
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When you do take the chewy away, she goes neurotic though. If she sees where you put it, she will circle the table or wherever forever. Also, when she whittles the chew treat down to a dangerous size, you have to get her quick and slip your fingers in her mouth to get it or she will try and swallow it whole. Again, I try to get it when she's sleeping or has left it somewhere so I don't have to stick my hands in her mouth or push my luck. For the time being, she's not getting those treats. She really likes them though. Maybe after we get some real good time together and she starts making some good progress, we can start working on not getting so crazy with them. I have asked my fiance if I can have one time of feeding per day. Would you suggest if I did all of the feedings for a while? I know the food giver is often the one of most respect so I wonder if me taking over for a while completely would be a good idea. Oh, I have been meaning to ask you all, what size of pup(s) do you have in pounds and how much do you feed them (and how often) do you feed them. I have read a good number of posts on schedules to feed, but I could use some pointers on how much. I read that an adult Yorkie needs between 1/4 cup to 1/3 of a cup of kibble per day. That doesn't look like much food at all. The fiance wants to feed her about 1/3 to 1/2 a cup in one sitting, and that looks like too much. I completely forgot to ask her about the dog food too....I know they have a blend specially for Yorkies because I remember looking it up a few months ago looking for the nutrition label online. While we are on that, does anyone have a suggestion on preferred brand for this breed? If, by chance, the food she's laying down isn't the best - how much of a problem is it to change food types? Does a person have to start mixing them and transition or can it be a pretty bad shock to them? One thing that is really shocking with the behavior I have seen is she doesn't chew shoes or anything like that on the floor. If the remote falls off the couch, she doesn't get into it. Magazines, cushions...nothing. What she goes after is if you hang your coat off the back of a chair, she gets into the pockets and will pull out tissues, gloves or coozies that I will use at school for my water and such. She is also a pretty big fan of snagging my fiances underwear through the laundry basket and dart under the bed. It's hard to not laugh at times with that one. My fiance will giggle about licking my mouth and I poke back and say "at least my undies are safe..." I wish winter wasn't so close and the weather turning uncomfortably cold. The dog park and walks are a great idea together, but with her on second and my school schedule in the mornings and early afternoons, and studies in the afternoon/evenings - it's hard to meet up in our schedule, let alone in a time of day when it's nice and warmest. We'll find some times though, especially when springs starts showing up. Back to the bed and being defensive...she has been set in her kennel overnight (she has a spacious kennel and a crate bit enough to turn in and lay down) when I had started sleeping over and leading up to me living there. On the weekends she is allowed to sleep on the bed with my fiance since I have to come home to work. Lets just say she doesn't do the lick in the mouth thing and is allowed to roam at night...if I roll over, have a leg spasm, shift in the night or have some romance - will there be a high risk of aggression? Would it be best to just keep the routine of the kennel in the evenings? Thanks a bunch |
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Okay, on the biting thing, since you think you've figured it out... One of my dogs after we brought him home started getting protective over me. My husband was working night shift and I was in bed when he would come home. Both dogs would run to the door and greet him all happily, then Smokey would come back and lay across my chest, look him square in the eye, and growl. If you think she is growling and biting over defense for her, your girlfriend needs to be the one to correct her. For a while my husband was the one that tried to correct that behavior and it didn't work. I had to put Smokey on the floor immediately and say "No!" firmly and he wasn't allowed back up for a little bit (like a few minutes) until he understood that I didn't need protecting from my own husband. About a week of being kicked off the bed by me, he stopped and hasn't done it since. |
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Is the food your girlfriend feeding by any chance Royal Canin? I know they have a formula just for yorkies. I've never used that, but was told not to because of the high amount of corn. From what I've been told, corn can cause allergies in yorkies. Someone, correct me if I'm wrong! If switching food, do transition it. I'm no help on the feeding schedule... I have two dogs, one 15 lbs, the other 7, and I free feed both of them. It works for them and they are perfect weight wise. I don't recommend that for your situation though. As for getting things out of coat pockets, don't hang your coats on the back of the chair. Just like with baby proofing a house for a nosy, in to everything toddler, you have to puppy proof everything. If you know that your dog gets into coat pockets, you can't let it be accessible to her. Same thing is said to new puppy owners with shoes and such that puppies like to chew on. You can't expect to leave things out that you know she likes and expect her not to get into it. Chip likes to search my purse, so I can't expect to leave it unzipped and not come back to find my stuff everywhere. Just like you can't leave things out for toddlers to get into, the same thing applies to dogs. Keep these items out of reach, problem solved. As for the underwear thing, I have TWO dogs that did the same thing. Somehow, they grew out of it. They only liked MY underwear. When Chip was a puppy, I was sorting out laundry and there was one pair that he really wanted... I'd look behind me and he had taken it out of it's pile and was licking it. I took it away, said "No" and put it back where it belonged. A few minutes later, guess who's mouth was on it again? Yup, Chip's! I took it away and put it at the bottom of the pile. Turned back around to sort more laundry and next thing I know Chip is sprinting by me with this pink lacy thing hanging out of his mouth and flying behind him like a cape. I couldn't quit laughing! Smokey, my other dog, he would pull them out of the little holes in the hamper and I'd wake up to find large holes torn out of my underwear. I had to keep buying more and more until he finally learned that doing that was bad. I understand it's cold but the dog does need walked and played with. I know it's unreasonable to say every time you have to do it together, but if you are both home, then both take her for a walk or both spend time playing with her on the floor or whatever it takes. You also need to gain her trust by spending one on one time with her too. |
I've been following this entire thread closely and guess it is now time for me to toss my hat in the ring. Quote:
If you want support and kindness - one way to find it is to offer it (and, only it). :) Quote:
Just a few suggestions (as others have already given good ones): --Forget the crate; if she is a puppy mill dog - a crate will just recreate that living situation for her, over and over and over and over --If she needs an 'area', use something like this, which fits a bed, water, some toys, a pee pad --Do not ever hit a dog; not only is it wrong, it will end the line of communication which you are trying to establish. Remember that dogs descend from the wolf; an alpha wolf doesn't hit, or even need to bite to mitigate behavior. Rather, a wolf would perhaps place their mouth/jaw at the top of the other dog's neck, and push down --Re-frame the mind: there is no 'bad' behavior in dogs. Rather, think of it as preferable and non-preferable. That may sound simplistic, but it does help take emotion out of the way you view the situation and helps prevent a negatively focused viewpoint --Call a local rescue, ask them who they'd recommend (as a trainer) for dogs who have been abused, neglected, and are former puppy mill dogs. Tell them you want someone who uses positive reinforcement ONLY, no negative. --Btw, are you playing with her? I.e., being goofy with her? Getting down on her level and just being plain silly with her can create great bonds That's all I can think of right now, it's early. Best of luck. |
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In your case, whatever you are feeding I would stick with right now. You don't want to change anything and further upset her. She's already dealing with a lot. Wait until she's further along in the training process before you change anything else. When you do change foods you need to do it gradually over the course of 1-2 weeks by slowly mixing in a few kibbles of the new food with the old food until you are only feeding new food. Quote:
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As for in the bed... many Yorkies wake up unexpectedly in a defensive mood. If I pet my male gently while he's sleeping, he's more likely to awaken and bite my hand than anything. Don't know why he does this... so I am very careful approaching him when he's sleeping. I did work on this for a bit, but as he's older I was afraid of causing him a heart attack, so I decided it was best for him if I just tolerate this behavior, and adjust my approach, rather than try to change the outcome. It really depends on the dog as to how much risk of aggression there will be in the bed. Maybe start out with some weekend naps to see how things go. As all her new training comes together, it may help to build her confidence, and help her to be less jumpy. One test to access her aggression would be to put your arm under the covers and move it around. She may play and try to catch your arm, or she may try to kill your arm. If she plays, I would think you would be at less risk of attack during sleep making random movements. If she gets in kill mode with your arm, maybe kennel her in the bedroom, it's still a bonding experience for you all to sleep together in the same room, and would be safer for you, and avoiding confrontation needing correction for her, for now. As for anything more than sleeping, I would not have her in the room. She may interpret things wrong and think you are hurting her Mommie. |
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