How do you know when Crate Training isn't going to work?

[Mom to Hot Rod]

I agree with Nancy1999. A 10 week old's bladder is way too small to expect them to hold it for very long. And also please remember, the crate is for us not for them...they do not automatically know where to pee and poo.

I think that you may want to think about either getting someone to come in every hour or getting an expen that will keep his crate, pad, and toys and food. And even if you do his, keep in mind, it doesn't guarantee that he will know or use the pad automatically.

please give this little one something to sleep on and to keep warm. He's only 10 weeks old and his little world has been turned upside down and he has no clue what is expected of him. He may not be a candidate for crate training. I never like having mine in a crate. we've got Hot Rod an expen within a week of having him. Best of luck.

[YorkieRose]

Please put this poor puppy in a large xpen so it can have a bed, play area and potty area..doesn't have to be huge..but at least 2x3...no 10 wk old should be treated like this...I am a firm believer in confining puppies and even adults, but this teaches the puppy nothing....Yorkie bladders are so small at this stage, they need to pee when they need to pee...

[Baby Blessing]

I would suggest getting and X Pen ( we ordered ours through Wal Mart on line) I would remove the door on the crate, place the crate within the X Pen, a comfy blankie in the Crate ) pee pad placed in the X Pen. Be sure to have fresh water and little food in the X Pen for it.

Since you have other dogs too, during the day while your at work I would place the X Pen in a room other than where they are.

Very IMPORTANT and am glad to hear you are able to go home and check on it quite frequently.

Good luck with your new baby,
Patti and Jack and girls.

[yasminv1]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm very concerned that you are keeping you dog in a crate with no bedding or towels. At 10 weeks old most yorkies are with their mommies, who nudge them over to a pee pad. Keeping your baby warm, dry and safe should be a priority not training at this age. If she can't hold it for 2 hours, she can't hold it. Some people take them out every hour, it's never the dog's fault, and they should always have bedding. A dog can hold it longer during the night than it can during the day. You are trying to train through punishment, and this will surely backfire. A better option would to be to place her in an x-pen with several pee pads and bedding. Crate training should only be attempted when you can take them out every hour, and you gradually increase the time.

We do put bedding in the crate when we are at home and when she sleeps. And I had been leaving her in there with her bedding until yesterday when I read 2 training books and both say to remove all bedding, towels ect. until they can keep the crate clean for atleast 2 weeks. SO??? Who do I listen to??? Super confused.

[yasminv1]

Originally Posted by Lou

I can't tell you how strongly I agree with Nancy! That poor baby needs to stay warm and cuddle up to something while you are gone. You said you were thinking about putting a gate up in the hallway - PLEASE do. Put the crate (with bedding) in there too and your little one can use it for naps. If you put lots of peepads down he will learn to use them in emergencies. Is there someone near you that can come and check on him and take him outside when you can't? Could you maybe take a week or two off from work to bond and take him out every hour on the hour?
Good luck.

She has an xpen which is what we put her crate in. This is her place that we want her to ge used to until she is a bit older and can have more freedom.
I decided she just can't hold it for 1.5 to 2 hours right now and I can't go home every hour...and I also can't take time off from work...so...for the next few days I will just leave her crate door open and leave her in the pen with a couple of potty pads. We will try crating her next week to see if she can hold it longer...if not...we'll go back to the pen and try the crate a week later again.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by yasminv1

We do put bedding in the crate when we are at home and when she sleeps. And I had been leaving her in there with her bedding until yesterday when I read 2 training books and both say to remove all bedding, towels ect. until they can keep the crate clean for atleast 2 weeks. SO??? Who do I listen to??? Super confused.

Ignore those training books and follow the advice of the very wise people who posted above: Nancy, MauiGirl, Mom to Hot Rod, YorkieRose, Baby Blessing.

Put your baby in an xpen with comfy bedding and a piddle pad.

Maybe Mom to Hot Rod can post her picture of her setup, or I will go look for the link to the other thread where she posted it.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yasminv1

She has an xpen which is what we put her crate in. This is her place that we want her to ge used to until she is a bit older and can have more freedom.
I decided she just can't hold it for 1.5 to 2 hours right now and I can't go home every hour...and I also can't take time off from work...so...for the next few days I will just leave her crate door open and leave her in the pen with a couple of potty pads. We will try crating her next week to see if she can hold it longer...if not...we'll go back to the pen and try the crate a week later again.

Oh good, I think this will work so much better, the crate should always been seen a safe comfortable den, not a punishment.

[yasminv1]

Originally Posted by Maximo

I brought my first pup home at 13 weeks old and he was about 3 pounds. He would have gone nuts if I had tried crating him. The xpen and piddle pad worked perfectly for him. He graduated to having a safe room to stay in fairly quickly. The Maxman excelled in potty training; it's his specialty.

Crate training works for some pups, but crates should never be used as babysitters for more than 3-4 hours a day -- if I recall correctly, that is what my breeder wrote in the instructions she gave me.

Just want to make sure I clarify how we are using the crate and pen. She is never in the crate for more than 2 hours at a time (except if she is sleeping which is at night). Each time I go home between 7:00 and 4:00PM (which is 3 to 4 times a day) she gets time to go outside to potty and I let her play for 10-15 minutes. During lunch she gets atleast 40 minutes before going back in the crate.

After 4PM, we have done our best to not be away from home unless we have to (like go to the grocery store) so we can play with her, bond and take her outside to potty. If we have to put her down to eat dinner or be away from her to cook or do something for a couple minutes she is put in her pen with her toys, crate, bed and potty pads. She is never in the pen more than 10-15minutes.

When it is bedtime, we take the crate into our bedroom, place it next to our bed and but her bed in there. She falls asleep with us after cuddling for a few minutes and in the crate we put her. She never hesitates to cuddle in her crate and sleep. During the night she whines and we take her to potty. She goes without any issues and back to sleep in the crate she goes without much whining.

[Reese1]

Originally Posted by yasminv1

Just want to make sure I clarify how we are using the crate and pen. She is never in the crate for more than 2 hours at a time (except if she is sleeping which is at night). Each time I go home between 7:00 and 4:00PM (which is 3 to 4 times a day) she gets time to go outside to potty and I let her play for 10-15 minutes. During lunch she gets atleast 40 minutes before going back in the crate.

After 4PM, we have done our best to not be away from home unless we have to (like go to the grocery store) so we can play with her, bond and take her outside to potty. If we have to put her down to eat dinner or be away from her to cook or do something for a couple minutes she is put in her pen with her toys, crate, bed and potty pads. She is never in the pen more than 10-15minutes.

When it is bedtime, we take the crate into our bedroom, place it next to our bed and but her bed in there. She falls asleep with us after cuddling for a few minutes and in the crate we put her. She never hesitates to cuddle in her crate and sleep. During the night she whines and we take her to potty. She goes without any issues and back to sleep in the crate she goes without much whining.

Is there an issue with just continuing to use the xpen for during the day & then crating at night?
Our two small ones sleep in a crate at night & they love their little crates, it's their haven.
Camden is confined if we are gone during the day, but not in her night crate.
I also agree about having bedding in the crate.
Also, we never use the crate as punishment of any kind. We only want it to be a safe, happy place for them!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yasminv1

Just want to make sure I clarify how we are using the crate and pen. She is never in the crate for more than 2 hours at a time (except if she is sleeping which is at night). Each time I go home between 7:00 and 4:00PM (which is 3 to 4 times a day) she gets time to go outside to potty and I let her play for 10-15 minutes. During lunch she gets atleast 40 minutes before going back in the crate.

After 4PM, we have done our best to not be away from home unless we have to (like go to the grocery store) so we can play with her, bond and take her outside to potty. If we have to put her down to eat dinner or be away from her to cook or do something for a couple minutes she is put in her pen with her toys, crate, bed and potty pads. She is never in the pen more than 10-15minutes.

When it is bedtime, we take the crate into our bedroom, place it next to our bed and but her bed in there. She falls asleep with us after cuddling for a few minutes and in the crate we put her. She never hesitates to cuddle in her crate and sleep. During the night she whines and we take her to potty. She goes without any issues and back to sleep in the crate she goes without much whining.

The only part that bothers me is that you are allowing her to lie in her own pee. Puppies can catch colds easily, and they need to be warm all the time. I have no problem with this, if you were using bedding, but you said that you weren't using any bedding. You could continue your same methods of training, but just use bedding, it's really not that hard to wash the bedding. Do you understand the difference?

[yasminv1]

I guess my only concern with pen during day and crate at night is that I don't want her to get accustomed to using potty pads forever. We want her to learn to hold it until we get home. We ultimately want her to hold it and go outside. Please realize we did the same training ritual with our older yorkie and we got him at 9 week old he had accident here and there but learned to hold it quickly. Now I know all dogs are different and she may just have a smaller bladder but I would like them both at some point to follow the same potty ritual.

If she is just too young to hold it right now then I can wait a couple weeks to see if she is able to hold it longer and then to try crating her during the day again but I don't want her to think the pen during the day is forever.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by yasminv1

Just want to make sure I clarify how we are using the crate and pen. She is never in the crate for more than 2 hours at a time (except if she is sleeping which is at night). Each time I go home between 7:00 and 4:00PM (which is 3 to 4 times a day) she gets time to go outside to potty and I let her play for 10-15 minutes. During lunch she gets atleast 40 minutes before going back in the crate.

After 4PM, we have done our best to not be away from home unless we have to (like go to the grocery store) so we can play with her, bond and take her outside to potty. If we have to put her down to eat dinner or be away from her to cook or do something for a couple minutes she is put in her pen with her toys, crate, bed and potty pads. She is never in the pen more than 10-15minutes.

When it is bedtime, we take the crate into our bedroom, place it next to our bed and but her bed in there. She falls asleep with us after cuddling for a few minutes and in the crate we put her. She never hesitates to cuddle in her crate and sleep. During the night she whines and we take her to potty. She goes without any issues and back to sleep in the crate she goes without much whining.

You are working hard to take care of your baby -- that is good!

Disregard what I initially wrote about the crate and go with what Nancy and others wrote. Your puppy needs access to potty more than every 2 hours. That is why many people are recommending the xpen with the piddle pad.

[yasminv1]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The only part that bothers me is that you are allowing her to lie in her own pee. Puppies can catch colds easily, and they need to be warm all the time. I have no problem with this, if you were using bedding, but you said that you weren't using any bedding. You could continue your same methods of training, but just use bedding, it's really not that hard to wash the bedding. Do you understand the difference?

I sort of understand. Please don't take this the wrong way..not trying to sound condescending..just wanting to understand. What is the difference between her peeing on her bed, towel or shirt and being wet and her peeing on the plastic and being wet? Again, yesterday was the first time we took bed, shirt and towel out.

Should I continue using the crate with bedding (we can put that back in there) or do the xpen for now until she is a bit older and can hold it for 2 hours? My fear is she becomes accustomed to being in her pee/poop even if there is wet bedding in there. Also, if I should continue to try the crate..leave the divider or no divider?

[Mom to Hot Rod]

If you are wanting to potty train her to go outside, the pads are just another way to get there. It will teach her to go in one area. Once she gets the idea of going in one area, you can start moving the pad slowly to the door and start taking her outside. Just because you train on pads, doesn't mean you will be stuck with it. Baby steps, she needs to be taught that she's expected to potty in a certain area and then where that area is.

here is my expen set up from when Hot Rod was younger. At one point, he had his food in there as well. Today I do not have water in there except if they chew on the bullies for a long time in the evening. I also have taken the crate out and have their beds and blankies in there.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yasminv1

I sort of understand. Please don't take this the wrong way..not trying to sound condescending..just wanting to understand. What is the difference between her peeing on her bed, towel or shirt and being wet and her peeing on the plastic and being wet? Again, yesterday was the first time we took bed, shirt and towel out.

Should I continue using the crate with bedding (we can put that back in there) or do the xpen for now until she is a bit older and can hold it for 2 hours? My fear is she becomes accustomed to being in her pee/poop even if there is wet bedding in there. Also, if I should continue to try the crate..leave the divider or no divider?

If she pees on a blanket or towel, the blanket or towel holds lots of the moisture, and she can stay relatively dry, if she pees on a plastic tray, the pee stays there and she can't escape it at all. She will be wet and chilled. Think of a baby lying in a damp diaper vs. lying in a puddle of water.

I personally think most people make housebreaking too hard; they seem to be training themselves and not the dog. Since you have an x-pen, I would use that, and keep the crate door open, and have bedding inside the crate, and place pee pads outside the crate. If you keep on training the way you are training, you might end up training him to use the crate as a urinal, many people say their dogs won't go except in the crate, and this is not a good thing. I would leave the divider in and do the crate training overnight. I kept Joey's crate by my bed at nighttime, and he'd cry when he had to pee, so I would just place him on a pee pad in the bathroom and return him to his crate. Of course, praise her and give her a little treat, like a cheerio, when she does pee on the pad. I never punished for making a mistake, only rewarded for doing it correctly. They really want to keep their bedding dry, and this is instinctual, but if you don't allow them out at the proper times, you can train them to soil the bedding permanently. At first, I kept 2 pee pads in the x-pen, and as he got older, I only used one, they really prefer going on a pee pad, and the disposable ones have a scent on them that attracts them to the spot. Any accidents on carpeting and bedding should be cleaned with Nature's Miracle because they tend to want to go in the same spots over and over.