I'm back... The talk went well...

[JJC]

If you would have asked me six months ago if I would ever put a diaper on a pet I would have said no way. Fast forward to today and I would recommend it when your working on potty training. I ordered some fundies from a YT member here (Fu Fu Fashions) and I'm so glad I did. It's so easy to take them off/on and leaves me a lot less stressed. If there is an accident we don't have urine soaking into the carpet. We can focus on the positive times we get it right without as much stress over our mistakes. If you don't already you might consider using belly bands for the little guy while he's going through training whever he's out of his kennel or xpen if you use them. Here is a link to her belly bands. FuFu Fashions Belly Bands, Doggie diapers, Dog Diapers They aren't a substitution for outside potty breaks, they are more like having an insurance policy for the occasional mistake around the house.

[globemaster]

Originally Posted by Mom to Hot Rod

Glade that this thread is a bit more civil. I apologize for getting frustrated with the other thread but it seemed as though bits and pieces of information kept surfacing and the story was not what it appeared to be.

Having said that, I am very glad to hear that your gf is willing to shoulder some of the training responsibilities. It does take effort on all those involved to work together for a common goal. You said that she has a roommate, is there anyway that that person could come home in the middle of the day and take Ollie out for a walk? If this is not an option, seriously consider using an expen. In my opionion, it is a better option because this gives them stretching room. I wouldn't want to be confined in a cubicle for hours at a time.

As for the treats, I would give one each time he potty's. If you are concerned with the type of treats, we have been giving pieces of carrots. They go nuts when they hear the crunch of them. I use the baby carrots and will eat one or two-good for me as well. I also give Zuke's but I break them in half and each get one.

Lil fu fu girl has a great idea for a command for pottying. We use "do your stuff". I have read that you should say it when they are actually in the act so they can associate it with the act and learn it accordingly. Again, whatever you decide, both of you need to use the same command.

I, as the others have, would like to Thank You for your sacrifices in keeping our country safe. My brother and husband are vets from the "conflict" and I say Thank You to them every veteren's day. Stay safe.

Here is a picture of the expen that we use; you can put a clear shower liner underneath it to make easier for cleanups:

We definitely don't use the same catch phrase. That is something we need to do.

Thankfully her roommate moved out. Her dog is over 10 years old and probably couldn't help some of her accidents. To make matters worse her roommate gave her the full run of the apartment, so who knows who's mostly responsible for the state of the apartment - the cat, the old dog, or Ollie. In any event the rank of all 3 scents can't be helping with the dog - I know he's partially confused because of that (ie... why is/was it ok for the cat and other dog to soil the entire apartment, but not me? Not to mention marking motives...).

As for your pen, he's VERY athletic for his size. It amazes me how high he can jump and it would have to have a top to it. We do have a bathroom that has tile in it, but I'm worried he'd be confused about going inside being ok. What my best bet probably is is having her come home during her break at work to walk the dog. She sure hurries home when she knows I'm working nights. Once I train HER on all the other stuff, I probably need to get HER trained to do that when I can't get there. I know I can't make it, because 1 hour of round trip driving would be way to long for my boss to allow me apart from work. Any house that I'd have would come complete with a doggie door one day.

I talked to her on the phone today and told her that I expected her to set the timer. I'm hoping she'll keep close to the 3 hour rule, for the dog's sake and mine!

[globemaster]

Originally Posted by Mom to Hot Rod

Glade that this thread is a bit more civil. I apologize for getting frustrated with the other thread but it seemed as though bits and pieces of information kept surfacing and the story was not what it appeared to be.

Having said that, I am very glad to hear that your gf is willing to shoulder some of the training responsibilities. It does take effort on all those involved to work together for a common goal. You said that she has a roommate, is there anyway that that person could come home in the middle of the day and take Ollie out for a walk? If this is not an option, seriously consider using an expen. In my opionion, it is a better option because this gives them stretching room. I wouldn't want to be confined in a cubicle for hours at a time.

As for the treats, I would give one each time he potty's. If you are concerned with the type of treats, we have been giving pieces of carrots. They go nuts when they hear the crunch of them. I use the baby carrots and will eat one or two-good for me as well. I also give Zuke's but I break them in half and each get one.

Lil fu fu girl has a great idea for a command for pottying. We use "do your stuff". I have read that you should say it when they are actually in the act so they can associate it with the act and learn it accordingly. Again, whatever you decide, both of you need to use the same command.

I, as the others have, would like to Thank You for your sacrifices in keeping our country safe. My brother and husband are vets from the "conflict" and I say Thank You to them every veteren's day. Stay safe.

Here is a picture of the expen that we use; you can put a clear shower liner underneath it to make easier for cleanups:

Yeah... Looking at the picture he'd hurdle that like it wasn't even there. He'd have more fun hurdling it and think it was a play toy. When my girlfriend got him she bought a baby crib for him to play in and it wasn't even a month before he was jumping in and out. Now its a play thing for him as we throw toys into it so that he can hurdle his way in and then hurdle his way out. He's got some serious hops!

[globemaster]

Originally Posted by JJC

If you would have asked me six months ago if I would ever put a diaper on a pet I would have said no way. Fast forward to today and I would recommend it when your working on potty training. I ordered some fundies from a YT member here (Fu Fu Fashions) and I'm so glad I did. It's so easy to take them off/on and leaves me a lot less stressed. If there is an accident we don't have urine soaking into the carpet. We can focus on the positive times we get it right without as much stress over our mistakes. If you don't already you might consider using belly bands for the little guy while he's going through training whever he's out of his kennel or xpen if you use them. Here is a link to her belly bands. FuFu Fashions Belly Bands, Doggie diapers, Dog Diapers They aren't a substitution for outside potty breaks, they are more like having an insurance policy for the occasional mistake around the house.

Ordered...

[TLC]

I don't believe in long periods of crate fro training. I have either used a expen or baby gated them in a spare room.

Absolutely - Positive Praise and a Small Yummy GOOD potty behavior treat is 100% the most important tool you have right now.

I use Peanut Butter Chips (from the baking isle) They are sooooo small yet soooooo effective. This treat is ONLY for good potty behavior. Whole foods actually carries a bag that is made from natural peanut butter.

Your on the right track

[globemaster]

Originally Posted by TLC

I don't believe in long periods of crate fro training. I have either used a expen or baby gated them in a spare room.

Absolutely - Positive Praise and a Small Yummy GOOD potty behavior treat is 100% the most important tool you have right now.

I use Peanut Butter Chips (from the baking isle) They are sooooo small yet soooooo effective. This treat is ONLY for good potty behavior. Whole foods actually carries a bag that is made from natural peanut butter.

Your on the right track

The crate training issue is 100% out of my control. I know most days she could make it home to let him out, but I've got bigger battles to fight right now. Maybe once she's taking him out every 3 hours then I can move on that. It's never going to be feasible for me to do it because the two places I work are waaaaay to far of a drive to avoid having to take leave from work.

I've never thought of it as cruel, because my Setters could have handled up to 12 hours no problem - (although it was never an issue with us - we never did that). I know Yorkies are obviously smaller than my Setters, but are their bladders proportionally smaller? If a Setters bladder is 2% of his body, is a Yorkie's bladder 1%?

[TLC]

Originally Posted by globemaster

The crate training issue is 100% out of my control. I know most days she could make it home to let him out, but I've got bigger battles to fight right now. Maybe once she's taking him out every 3 hours then I can move on that. It's never going to be feasible for me to do it because the two places I work are waaaaay to far of a drive to avoid having to take leave from work.

I've never thought of it as cruel, because my Setters could have handled up to 12 hours no problem - (although it was never an issue with us - we never did that). I know Yorkies are obviously smaller than my Setters, but are their bladders proportionally smaller? If a Setters bladder is 2% of his body, is a Yorkie's bladder 1%?

How big is Ollie?

I never did the crate bc my are home for 10 hrs at a minimum and that's too long to expect them to hold it. Mine are pee pad trained. I still do have some marking/anxiety issue with my girl, even though she was spayed at 6 months.

Yes there bladders are much smaller, you run the risk of infection from holding pee too long as well. Crate training is good for potty training purposes, but he's gotta be able to have a mid day pee break - If not, I don't know if I'd do it

[Mom to Hot Rod]

I know that you do not like having pottying in the house but once we got Hot Rod trained to the pad and the expen, it was like a huge sigh of relief! I didn't drive like a maniac to get home and I was able to concentrate on work. And he was able to get some exercise and have some toys in the pen with him. There are taller pens and some pens have a cover you can get. Or if you will gate him off in a room that is good also. Just be sure that he can't scale the gate or slip through it as Maggie was doing! She would squeeze her body thru the center of the gate, we could never figure out how she made it until I watched her do it one day.

As for being confused of going potty in the house on a pad and outside, that may happen at first but...baby steps. The goal is to get him not soil on the carpet. If he will learn to use the pad that is part of the battle. Hopefully he will then be able to figure that pottying is acceptable in certain places. For some reason, we didn't have that issue with Hot Rod. Maggie on the other hand will sometimes come back in from walks and go straight to her pad and poo. She pees outside and does poo outside, but not 100% of the time. Just look at it from Ollie's perspective, he doesn't know you want him to go in a certain place, he just needs to go and his momma encouraged do this whenever and wherever he needed to. It would be great if they were like cats and were taught to use the litter box by mom.

[globemaster]

Originally Posted by TLC

How big is Ollie?

I never did the crate bc my are home for 10 hrs at a minimum and that's too long to expect them to hold it. Mine are pee pad trained. I still do have some marking/anxiety issue with my girl, even though she was spayed at 6 months.

Yes there bladders are much smaller, you run the risk of infection from holding pee too long as well. Crate training is good for potty training purposes, but he's gotta be able to have a mid day pee break - If not, I don't know if I'd do it

I agree with everything you said. He's probably 3-3.5 pounds of PURE muscle. He looks like a humongous flea when he jumps.

I wish there was some way to let him out mid day, but it just doesn't work for me. If I could only convince her... I'm gonna bring up the bladder infection thing, because that's valid too. The same thing can happen to humans too... I know peeing is a males way of keeping his pipes clean and that is one reason why it is so important for males to both drink lots of water and pee a lot. I'm sure a dog is no different than a human there. I believe holding it can often result in bladder problems later in life too...

[cpuff35]

Hi Globemaster, you're getting a lot of good advice from other YT members here. I'm not sure if this is something you want to consider... Perhaps you can have Ollie be pee pad trained first. That way you can leave Ollie in the bathroom with pee pad and not worry about rushing home every 3 hours to take him out. That's what I did for Cassi and Ori. Initially I confined them to the bathroom when I'm not home with 2-3 pee pads laid out on the floor (my bathroom is pretty big b/c it has a connecting shower room). At first they had a few potty accidents on the floor but once they got the hang of it I started to give them more room. Now they have the bathroom and the whole hallway.

To reinforce pee pad training, this is what I did. Every morning when I wake up I would take them to their pee pad so that they could do their business, praise and give a small treat. When I'm not home I would confine them in the bathroom with the pee pad and their crate. Upon returning home, I would immediately take them to their pee pad. Once they potty I would allow them free rome around the house. However, after an hour or two, I would keep them confined to a smaller area and would keep a very close eye on them. About 3 hours later from the time they went potty I would bring them back to their pee pad again so they could do their business. If they've done their business, once again I would allow them free rome of the house. If they don't do their business, then I keep them confined in the bathroom with the pee pads until they go potty. Just keep in mind, that you have to constantly do this repetively for a few months before they get the hang of it. I brought Ori home at the end of January and it's been 2 months past and he's already 75% potty trained. Whereas Cassi, she's been with us for 1 year now and she's 100% potty trained.

One last thing, after Cassi was about 85% potty trained we would start bringing her out for walks. Initially, she wouldn't go potty outside but after a month or two, she started to go outside as well. So now she's not only pee pad trained but she also does her potty outside as well. One good thing about pee pads, when it get's cold or rainy they could do their business indoors. Good luck!!!

[TLC]

Originally Posted by globemaster

I agree with everything you said. He's probably 3-3.5 pounds of PURE muscle. He looks like a humongous flea when he jumps.

I wish there was some way to let him out mid day, but it just doesn't work for me. If I could only convince her... I'm gonna bring up the bladder infection thing, because that's valid too. The same thing can happen to humans too... I know peeing is a males way of keeping his pipes clean and that is one reason why it is so important for males to both drink lots of water and pee a lot. I'm sure a dog is no different than a human there. I believe holding it can often result in bladder problems later in life too...

OK - well, I am going to be very honest. IF I had a 3 or 3.5 lbs male - NO WAY would I be containing him to a crate for more than 4 hrs. TOPS

Is he neutered? If NOT - this is something that should be done ASAP - not only will this protect him from cancer it should help with any marking issues.

Again, honestly...If he were mine, I'd buy a tall gate (or even 2 staked in the door frame) and contain him in the bathroom with pee pads when left home alone, whether it be 1 hour or 10. And I would have a pee pad in there at ALL times. I would continue to walk him often to do potty outside as much as possible. When inside and someone is home, I would use belly bands (with a maxi pad) to ensure he doesn't mark, but I would be slowly trying to get him away from relying on a belly band.

[JJC]

We also have an area like Mom To Hot Rod does for when we can't be with them. They use their wee wee pads so we don't have a mess on the floor. It's a "safe place" for them to potty indoors if they need to when we aren't around to take them outside. I took the door off their crate so they have free roam of "their area" and they do really well. I take them on scheduled outings every 2 hours from the last time they went out and actually pottied. My girls love to go outside and they figured out really quick that when they ring the bells they go outside. They are usually abusing the bells when they ring them but I take them out to their spot for 10-15 minutes (depending on how serious they appear to be about it) and then were back inside with their fundies on or in their xpen.

[TLC]

Again...Positive Praise and Treat Reward is a great system. Dogs want to please and if you give them the reinforcement they quickly learn want exactly pleases you.

NEVER ~ NEVER ~ NEVER Punish him - I promise you, it will NOT teach him what is the RIGHT thing to do.

Punishment will only make him scared and confused, he will start to think that doing potty in general is bad and that's not what you want. You want him to learn Good Potty - so you praise and reward for good behavior.

Wanting to and actually punishing a dog is NOT a quality you should have.

Dog and People are NOT the same, they don't have the same thinking.

I truly hope this all works out ~ it seems that you really want it to!


....and get him neutered ASAP - it's for his health

[globemaster]

Originally Posted by Mom to Hot Rod

I know that you do not like having pottying in the house but once we got Hot Rod trained to the pad and the expen, it was like a huge sigh of relief! I didn't drive like a maniac to get home and I was able to concentrate on work. And he was able to get some exercise and have some toys in the pen with him. There are taller pens and some pens have a cover you can get. Or if you will gate him off in a room that is good also. Just be sure that he can't scale the gate or slip through it as Maggie was doing! She would squeeze her body thru the center of the gate, we could never figure out how she made it until I watched her do it one day.

As for being confused of going potty in the house on a pad and outside, that may happen at first but...baby steps. The goal is to get him not soil on the carpet. If he will learn to use the pad that is part of the battle. Hopefully he will then be able to figure that pottying is acceptable in certain places. For some reason, we didn't have that issue with Hot Rod. Maggie on the other hand will sometimes come back in from walks and go straight to her pad and poo. She pees outside and does poo outside, but not 100% of the time. Just look at it from Ollie's perspective, he doesn't know you want him to go in a certain place, he just needs to go and his momma encouraged do this whenever and wherever he needed to. It would be great if they were like cats and were taught to use the litter box by mom.

I know she's used them before. I'm not sure what the result was. I agree that Ollie needs some form of solution. To tell you the truth the "work" crate times don't bother me as much as the times she doesn't go directly home. It isn't every day that she does that, but sometimes...

[globemaster]

Originally Posted by cpuff35

Hi Globemaster, you're getting a lot of good advice from other YT members here. I'm not sure if this is something you want to consider... Perhaps you can have Ollie be pee pad trained first. That way you can leave Ollie in the bathroom with pee pad and not worry about rushing home every 3 hours to take him out. That's what I did for Cassi and Ori. Initially I confined them to the bathroom when I'm not home with 2-3 pee pads laid out on the floor (my bathroom is pretty big b/c it has a connecting shower room). At first they had a few potty accidents on the floor but once they got the hang of it I started to give them more room. Now they have the bathroom and the whole hallway.

To reinforce pee pad training, this is what I did. Every morning when I wake up I would take them to their pee pad so that they could do their business, praise and give a small treat. When I'm not home I would confine them in the bathroom with the pee pad and their crate. Upon returning home, I would immediately take them to their pee pad. Once they potty I would allow them free rome around the house. However, after an hour or two, I would keep them confined to a smaller area and would keep a very close eye on them. About 3 hours later from the time they went potty I would bring them back to their pee pad again so they could do their business. If they've done their business, once again I would allow them free rome of the house. If they don't do their business, then I keep them confined in the bathroom with the pee pads until they go potty. Just keep in mind, that you have to constantly do this repetively for a few months before they get the hang of it. I brought Ori home at the end of January and it's been 2 months past and he's already 75% potty trained. Whereas Cassi, she's been with us for 1 year now and she's 100% potty trained.

One last thing, after Cassi was about 85% potty trained we would start bringing her out for walks. Initially, she wouldn't go potty outside but after a month or two, she started to go outside as well. So now she's not only pee pad trained but she also does her potty outside as well. One good thing about pee pads, when it get's cold or rainy they could do their business indoors. Good luck!!!

That MIGHT work... The bathroom doesn't bother me as much because its out of the way as the apartment is set up and its tiled. If something gets off the pad then it isn't the disaster that the carpet is.