Bad Experience Sanjur in MN

[jeanief]

Well I was going to stay out of this, but since you are still posting I have to put in a comment. There are 2 sides to every story ! This is what I was told........
You picked the puppy up, and 2 days later emailed and said she was holding her leg up and licking or biting her leg and having restless nights in her new home. Sanjur told you it takes a bit to adjust to their new homes( sleeping at night alone) She also told you her vet had checked the patella's, and they checked out fine. 3 wks later you take the pup to the vet to find out she has a broken leg. then you email sanjur and tell her the pup must have broken her leg at her house ,since you asked the kids about it and they told you nothing had happened. I mean seriously now, don't you think sanjur would notice a broken legs on a pup? It sure wouldn't run around on the floor like it did before you picked up the puppy. A broken leg causes a pup to limp, ( to say the least) and it had no limp before it left and went into your care. If the puppy had a broken leg when you took it home in your car that day, don't you think you would notice that? Once you got out of the car at home, wouldn't you see that the pup was limping and in pain, and take the pup right in to the vet , or at least the next day? You wait 3 wks to take the pup into your vet, even thought it's holding it up and licking it? A breeder can not cover a broken leg after it leaves their care. I am so sorry this happend to your pup ( she sure is cute). I know sanjur and do not find her to be a evil women, she has always been great and helpful to me.

[chickiepooh]

That is the breeders side of the story. That is fine. That is her story. She assured me the puppy was fine when I contacted her. I kept hoping the puppy was fine since I knew she hadn't been hurt in my care. How often do you take your eye off of a new puppy! We watched her every move just cause she is so darn cute. Regarding the hard first nights... I just told the breeder the puppy was having a hard time... wouldn't you? First few nights away in a kennel all night... I would cry too. I was hoping what ever it was would go away. After a few weeks of the breeder reassuring me the puppy was fine I realized the puppy was walking uneven like one leg was shorter than the other. That is when I figured something wasn't right. When the vet x-rayed the leg it was bowed and shorter than the other leg. The vet's diagnosis was that the leg couldn't have grown that deformed in three weeks and either it was already deformed, or an injury happened when the puppy was very young. He said the puppy's mom sitting or stepping on her could have caused this injury as well as any other number of things. Either way. I have a deformed puppy that I will always love anyway. Since I have only talked to people who have not had the best experience with her. What else can I say. Now... Let's all drop this subject and move on with our lives, Please. Thank You.

[jeanief]

This will be my last post on the subject, but I thought it was important to tell both sides. I was read your vet report over the phone and it said that the pups was brought in to your vet aprox. 3wks after getting the pup. It came in with a significant limp. The xrays showed that the pups leg had been broken and it had healed in the incorrect position. I had a adult yorkie go out for potty and came in holding her leg up. I bought into the vet and she had a broken leg. I had the splint on for either 2 or 3 wks ( I can't remember) and the leg had already healed and was perfect. Bottom line , your pup did not have a limp and Sanjur's! Even a careless breeder ( which she is not) would notice a significant limp or even a small limp, or a pup holding it's leg up, or biting it's leg like you said it did. This problem is just something a breeder would not miss, or a buyer for that matter. When you first went to look at the pup, don't you think you would have noticed a limp on the pup? From my understanding the limp started to happen in your care. Don't you think when the patella's were checked at Sanjur's vet, he would have noticed a bend leg or a limp and the well check? The patellas on this pup checked out perfect. Like I said before, I normally don't get involved but I thought it was important that both sides of the story were told.

[chickiepooh]

You Say you have seen the x-ray... I just got off the phone with the vet and no one has asked to see the x-ray. The leg wasn't broken. The growth plate at the end of the femur was damaged. The leg didn't grow together crooked. It is bowed. I just reaffirmed all of this with the vet. When I went to buy a puppy from her I was a fool to not let the puppy walk around on the ground and watch her move. I just trusted that the breeder was selling me a 'perfect' puppy. Big mistake on my part. I guess I learned a lesson. Now can we let it rest and move on with our lives!!!

[hartygirl]

I'm sorry you had to go through this!

Don't feel like you have to justify yourself to any body on here. It is pretty obvious that your little girl came from a shady situation. Looking at the website is enough to see that. And if she breeds as many as you say at once it seems like you are fighting a loosing battle.

It was very wise of you to make this situation into a positive, just think of how many people you can educate about bad breeding and defects! It will take some time but word does spread!

[chachi]

When you first brought the pup home did you take it for a vet wellness visit right away? It seems like they would have seen this then

[TinkSasLil]

Wow, I just read all the posts regarding Sanjur yorkies. I have to say, this is really unfortunate to read. I have known this breeder since 1995, I purchased 3 yorkies from her at that time. All my dogs have been wonderful pets, they range from 3-4 pounds. The breeder has been wonderful to communicate with and we still communicate. When her facility gets inspected, she gets top marks, this I know for sure, since I have reviewed her paperwork. I feel these comments are unfair to her, as I know her character and am shocked that someone would continue bashing her. It seems your comments are half-truths....

I go to the same Vet as she does, his office and staff facility, do not share personal information about their clients/patients to total strangers that call on the phone, asking about breeders...when I went to pick up dog food, they were shocked to hear when I told them that you claimed to have talked to one of his staff and that you said their staff member had called her an evil woman, they said that is untrue.

As far as the puppies leg being fractured, I am sorry to hear that, however, the letter Sanjur received from YOUR Vet, did not say that the dogs leg had been fractured prior to you receiving the puppy, but that it had been fractured, period. I read his letter in it's entirety. You need to get your facts straight and discontinue this "tirade" you have been on.

Sounds as though you have way too much time on your hands and have nothing good to say about anything. Hopefully you will find some time in your busy day, posting half-truths, to have some fun with your new family member.

I feel that some comments that I have read, after others have read your postings and comments, as negatively as you have been posting, must believe everything they read, I on the other hand, need facts. I really dislike people stating what they call facts, when in truth, they are grasping at straws, so they can blame someone else for something unfortunate that has happened to them. Puppies are fragile, especially tiny yorkies, since I have no small children in my home, I do however, make sure my visiting guests (adults OR children), do NOT pick up my dogs, accidents do happen, unfortunate as it may be....better safe than sorry.

Education is a wonderful thing, letting others know of your experience is also important, make sure when you make statements, however, backing them up, is also very important.

[Sunnie]

Just my own observation, but how come when someone gives their own personal opinion on a breeder experience, all of a sudden there are "new members" who just happen to have an "in" with the breeder, come on here to "defend" the breeder? Just my own opinion, but I think the OP (chickapooh) was very respectful and certainly NOT on a "tirade" at all. How do these other people know "all the facts", "all the vets reports", etc? Sounds to me like the breeder is the one on a tirade and would have been much better off by keeping her mouth shut instead of providing all kinds of details to other people to come on here and defend her.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Sunnie

Just my own observation, but how come when someone gives their own personal opinion on a breeder experience, all of a sudden there are "new members" who just happen to have an "in" with the breeder, come on here to "defend" the breeder? Just my own opinion, but I think the OP (chickapooh) was very respectful and certainly NOT on a "tirade" at all. How do these other people know "all the facts", "all the vets reports", etc? Sounds to me like the breeder is the one on a tirade and would have been much better off by keeping her mouth shut instead of providing all kinds of details to other people to come on here and defend her.

Very true about the new members! It seems to happen all the time in this section

[chickiepooh]

Wow! This has gotten way out of control! I am not bashing the breeder. I was a total idiot not taking the puppy to the vet for a wellness checkup as soon as possible. My mistake, now I suffer. My opinion is that she has wonderful pet quality dogs. Her business practices leave a bit to be desired. When I told her the dog was, in fact injured, she didn't want to have much to do with the situation at that point. She didn't offer to investigate and work things out. Just that I must have hurt the puppy and that it is no longer her concern. Abrupt, just like that. That is what made me want to let others be aware of her business practices. She acts like your best friend when you are considering buying a puppy from her and then when there is an issue she doesn't want to deal with it. That is just how I see it. You may never have any issues, therefore you see her good side.
Please! Everyone stop posting about this situation. I would like to move on!!!! Wouldn't you!?

[TinkSasLil]

Originally Posted by Sunnie

Just my own observation, but how come when someone gives their own personal opinion on a breeder experience, all of a sudden there are "new members" who just happen to have an "in" with the breeder, come on here to "defend" the breeder? Just my own opinion, but I think the OP (chickapooh) was very respectful and certainly NOT on a "tirade" at all. How do these other people know "all the facts", "all the vets reports", etc? Sounds to me like the breeder is the one on a tirade and would have been much better off by keeping her mouth shut instead of providing all kinds of details to other people to come on here and defend her.

My comment to you is this: Why is it fair you and others making unwarranted comments can do that, however, SHE is to "keep her mouth SHUT" as you put it!!

I guess it is like this.........."when someone attacks a person, that I know personally, without doing their research and saying totally false things about her", I feel a need to set the record straight. And as for knowing the reports and all the facts, I DO. I have read the reports, done my HOMEWORK and decided to share BOTH sides of the story, in an effect to tell others, of course those of whom are NOT willing to listen to "one sided half truths", there are two sides to every story. As for me being a new member, this is true, however, I have wanted to belong to this group for some time now.

I keep hearing her say in her posts here and the ones she sends on to Sanjur (I have read all of those as well)...she keeps saying she wants to move on, YET she continues to BLAME her for this unfortunate problem she has.....and continues to answer posts here, adding more and more of her tale. I guess if I kept telling someone I wanted to move on, I would do just that, instead of continuing to add more and more false information to make herself look like a victimized person....each post she makes tells the same story with more and more added to to make sure others will see she takes no FAULT in the circumstances. Judge and Jury postings from her and poor me syndrome, is what I see here and nothing else. And when you defend her postings, looks as though you want ALL HER DRAMA reports.

I will defend this breeder, since I have a right to, since anyone posting negative information, seem to have every right to as well. I am glad that we have the availability of free speech, some times we end up putting our money where our mouths are, unfortunately.

[jrsygal37]

I'm sorry you went through this. Yes, we've all be through it most of us anyway. I bought my first Yorkie from a similiar place. We lost him at 10 yrs. old last year to cancer. He is a big reason why I'm such an advocate against Puppymills. Ten years ago I didn't know what a puppymill was. Sadly, it's a big part of the breeding world. yes, your baby was the product of a mill whether it be a large mill or a small mill still a mill. The best you can do is learn from it and join in being an activist in helping to shut places like this down. We need all the help we can get. You do this by putting the word out about your experience and educating to help in preventing others from making the same mistake. After we lost Newman to cancer as educated as I was I screwed up and got a little girl from my own neighborhood. Small house breeder so I thought. You don't think bad places can possibly be in your small hometown, middleclass neighborhood but sadly they are everywhere. I took it at face value and didn't check out references ME who knows better. My little Jersey didn't come from a mill but she came from a very bad breeder and because of the bad breeding she passed away a week ago Thursday. She was only 17 months. You can never be too careful. You can never be too educated or too cautious. I hope your baby is alright.

Elaine

[Sunnie]

Originally Posted by TinkSasLil

My comment to you is this: Why is it fair you and others making unwarranted comments can do that, however, SHE is to "keep her mouth SHUT" as you put it!!

I guess it is like this.........."when someone attacks a person, that I know personally, without doing their research and saying totally false things about her", I feel a need to set the record straight. And as for knowing the reports and all the facts, I DO. I have read the reports, done my HOMEWORK and decided to share BOTH sides of the story, in an effect to tell others, of course those of whom are NOT willing to listen to "one sided half truths", there are two sides to every story. As for me being a new member, this is true, however, I have wanted to belong to this group for some time now.

I keep hearing her say in her posts here and the ones she sends on to Sanjur (I have read all of those as well)...she keeps saying she wants to move on, YET she continues to BLAME her for this unfortunate problem she has.....and continues to answer posts here, adding more and more of her tale. I guess if I kept telling someone I wanted to move on, I would do just that, instead of continuing to add more and more false information to make herself look like a victimized person....each post she makes tells the same story with more and more added to to make sure others will see she takes no FAULT in the circumstances. Judge and Jury postings from her and poor me syndrome, is what I see here and nothing else. And when you defend her postings, looks as though you want ALL HER DRAMA reports.

I will defend this breeder, since I have a right to, since anyone posting negative information, seem to have every right to as well. I am glad that we have the availability of free speech, some times we end up putting our money where our mouths are, unfortunately.

I am going to do just what the OP asked and post no more about this, but I wanted to clarify what I said. When I said the breeder would have been better off keeping her mouth shut.. I did not mean she could not tell her side of the story and defend herself... I meant she should NOT be on the phone with other people who have absolutely nothing to do with the problem and share emails, etc with them in order to get them to come on here and fight her battle. Why isn't SHE here defending herself? This forum is for breeder reviews.. both good and bad. The OP has every right to report a bad experience. Just as you have every right to report a good experience. It just sits wrong with me that the breeder has shared detailed information about one of her customers with someone who is not involved at all. In fact, with more than one person. In my opinion, it does not make her look good at all. Now I am done with my opinion. And my opinion is not based on what the OP said at all.. it is based on what I see on her website. I wouldn't purchase a puppy there.. But that is MY opinion.. others can decide for themselves.

[hartygirl]

Originally Posted by Sunnie

I am going to do just what the OP asked and post no more about this, but I wanted to clarify what I said. When I said the breeder would have been better off keeping her mouth shut.. I did not mean she could not tell her side of the story and defend herself... I meant she should NOT be on the phone with other people who have absolutely nothing to do with the problem and share emails, etc with them in order to get them to come on here and fight her battle. Why isn't SHE here defending herself? This forum is for breeder reviews.. both good and bad. The OP has every right to report a bad experience. Just as you have every right to report a good experience. It just sits wrong with me that the breeder has shared detailed information about one of her customers with someone who is not involved at all. In fact, with more than one person. In my opinion, it does not make her look good at all. Now I am done with my opinion. And my opinion is not based on what the OP said at all.. it is based on what I see on her website. I wouldn't purchase a puppy there.. But that is MY opinion.. others can decide for themselves.

Just looking at her website is enough to see what this breeder is about, $. It does not take much to see that! Any one with a " State Fair Discount" has some questionable ethics! In my experience most reputable breeders have their pups sold even before they are born, not websites with sale prices and "babies need homes" plastered all over.

TinkSasLil, I know you have said that you have done your "Homework" and know this Sanjur, she may be a nice person, and her dogs certainly are beautiful, but there are some less than desirable tactics being used to advertise puppies for sale on her website. I think if you spend a little time on here and get to know some responsible breeders you will see where I am coming from. I am basing my opinion only on what she has made public information and not on hearsay. Look a little closer at the situation and you might not be so quick to jump to her defense.

[TinkSasLil]

Originally Posted by hartygirl

Just looking at her website is enough to see what this breeder is about, $. It does not take much to see that! Any one with a " State Fair Discount" has some questionable ethics! In my experience most reputable breeders have their pups sold even before they are born, not websites with sale prices and "babies need homes" plastered all over.

TinkSasLil, I know you have said that you have done your "Homework" and know this Sanjur, she may be a nice person, and her dogs certainly are beautiful, but there are some less than desirable tactics being used to advertise puppies for sale on her website. I think if you spend a little time on here and get to know some responsible breeders you will see where I am coming from. I am basing my opinion only on what she has made public information and not on hearsay. Look a little closer at the situation and you might not be so quick to jump to her defense.

I dare to say there is NO breeder that would refund money or replace a puppy that was damaged at it's new home, obviously, by the purchaser, not the breeder. You can continue this distasteful argument, all you want, however, the truth is the truth. The purchasers own vet said it had a damaged growth plate, obviously from a fracture, if that puppy had a fractured leg, before leaving Sanjurs, it would be OBVIOUS to the new owner at that time of pick up. Trying to get money to pay for such an accident, that was not Sanjur's accident, but the new buyers, is a no brainer. If you purchased a puppy and three days later a car ran it over, would YOU call your breeder and want a refund, I THINK NOT!....

As for defending someone I know to be reputable, I will continue to do so, and will not take your unwarranted advice. Please don't feel that I need it either, I am a very good judge of character....it is obvious some others are not.

You mention you think Sanjur should defend herself on here, yet I see posts stating they think she should keep her mouth shut....well duh, has she posted anything?....no, that is why I felt the need to vocalize my opinion, just like the rest of you who have, seems as though, only your opinions mean anything?? I will continue my defense and maybe, just maybe, some of this will sink in.

I also see someone posted about puppy mills, making statements that are obviously, slated towards Sanjur.....I also see that same poster has a couple of yorkies, wonder if she got them from rescues, I doubt it. Sorry to hear her dog died of cancer and that she lost another one she purchased, however, this happens in our own families, with our children and loved ones.....if I get cancer at 30 or 40 years old, should I blame my parents, or the Dr who helped deliver me, or, or, or......things happen, we take chances with anything we buy, give birth to or whatever. There is a need for breeders and I feel this breeder has represnted herself to this community very well, the false accusations posted here, are just that, FALSE.