Green fluid during birth? - Page 4 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

set1958 · 07-01-2007, 06:00 PM

Mardelin

First post: green fluid is normal unless there is an odor. After my post saying it is not normal then you stated not necessarily. Perhaps I misunderstood your thought process. However, whelping pups and delivering babies is not totally opposite like apples and oranges. Both humans and dogs conceive the same way via egg and semen. Both have a certain gestational period. Both babies and pups are nourished via a placenta. Both grow inside a sack filled with fluid that breaks or is broken before their first breath. If it breaks before they are born then problems can occur. Both dogs and postpartum moms have a red to pink discharge after delivery. Both contract, dilate and deliver via pushing to expel the offspring. The main difference is that each pup has it's own sack ansd placenta. Sound pretty similar to me . Not to mention nursing and milk production. No apples and oranges here.

Mardelin · 07-01-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by set1958

Mardelin

First post: green fluid is normal unless there is an odor. After my post saying it is not normal then you stated not necessarily. Perhaps I misunderstood your thought process. However, whelping pups and delivering babies is not totally opposite like apples and oranges. Both humans and dogs conceive the same way via egg and semen. Both have a certain gestational period. Both babies and pups are nourished via a placenta. Both grow inside a sack filled with fluid that breaks or is broken before their first breath. If it breaks before they are born then problems can occur. Both dogs and postpartum moms have a red to pink discharge after delivery. Both contract, dilate and deliver via pushing to expel the offspring. The main difference is that each pup has it's own sack ansd placenta. Sound pretty similar to me . Not to mention nursing and milk production. No apples and oranges here.

Green fluid is normal, what you must be aware of is foul oder. Tami, you are correct if occurs prior to the delivery of the 1st pup it is a sign that there is a problem.

tegamom1 · 07-01-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by set1958

I would take my bitch to the Vet anytime I saw green fluid, however, I added that after the first pup it was normal because that is what the literature says online. I am by no means even close to being an expert on whelping and my original post said I thought that green fluid meant distress, therefore a vet visit. Some seemed to disagree because humans and dogs are different in their opinion so I went online to see what the literature says and it does say not to be concerned with green fluid after the first pup. I would be concerned because I know that whelping a pup and delivering a baby are similar. Not identical, but similar. I wholeheartedly agree that green is bad, but read the post after my earlier post. X RN you seem to be contradicting yourself. I am an OB nurse and puppies are similar but not identical. So green is not good and I guess now everyone agrees with that conclusion.

Np where did Mary contradict herself! Other than also being a nurse, she has whelped and helped her long time mentor who has been showing and breeding Yorkies over 40 years. This woman has forgot more than most will ever know!
Delivering a baby and whelping a puppy, yes there are a few similarities, but there are also vast differences. I thought this was all understood and agreed upon earlier, green before, bad, green after, good. I don't know how many litters you have whelped, but you might want to find a good mentor along with a good vet to help. With experience comes wisdom.

YorkieRose · 07-01-2007, 06:11 PM

If any vet told me that was fine..I would tell them to go back to med school..what a jackXXX...!
...if the placenta is not attached, then the pup does one of two things fairly soon..never takes a breath and dies or starts breathing, asperates fluid and drowns...

PS...isn't that an major emergancy in a pregnant woman also?? The baby can not get oxygen anyway except through the placenta?

set1958 · 07-01-2007, 06:20 PM

Look I meant no disrespect. Why in the world does this happen on this forum so much! Alot of hostility in lots of posts that I have read.

I believe Mardelin is old enough to speak for herself and I don't think she needs you or anyone else to either speak for her or defend her. I was not attacking her, I was simply pointing out that the human and dog reproduction process is quite similar and by golly I believe she was wrong about the apples and oranges thing. I also stated I was not an expert in whelping pups, but I am an expert in OB nursing. I am sure that she knows alot more about whelping pups than I do, however, we can all learn from each other. Is that not what this forum is all about. Networking and resources for information is what makes this a great forum. Back off Barbie!

set1958 · 07-01-2007, 06:23 PM

Anatomy and physiology are quite the same in humans and animals. My own vet told me that they learn very little about the birthing process in school. Breeders learn the hard way by trial and error, thus they know more than most vets. A local breeder was alot of help to me. I just don't think anyone should make light of green fluid, vet, breeder, whoever.

BamaFan121s · 07-01-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tegamom1

Np where did Mary contradict herself! Other than also being a nurse, she has whelped and helped her long time mentor who has been showing and breeding Yorkies over 40 years. This woman has forgot more than most will ever know!
Delivering a baby and whelping a puppy, yes there are a few similarities, but there are also vast differences. I thought this was all understood and agreed upon earlier, green before, bad, green after, good. I don't know how many litters you have whelped, but you might want to find a good mentor along with a good vet to help. With experience comes wisdom.

I agree!

Quote:

Originally Posted by set1958

Back off Barbie!

set1958 -- I understand some of the points you are trying to make and am in no way trying to argue tham. Please understand though that Mardelin's advice and what she has described comes from years and years of experience whelping. I see that your first litter was in January? Like myself, you are still gaining valuable first hand experience and learning all you can, I'm sure. You will find that Mardelin has a wide range of knowledge and is most helpful in areas that newer breeders like us can only imagine.

I think maybe you have misunderstood some of the comments here. I don't think anyone...yourself included was trying to attack anyone else, so I am sorry if you feel like you have been backed into a corner and that you have to defend yourself. I actually think your experience in the human medical world would be very interesting to discuss as comparison, if done in a civil manner, of course.

Mardelin · 07-01-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by set1958

Look I meant no disrespect. Why in the world does this happen on this forum so much! Alot of hostility in lots of posts that I have read.

I believe Mardelin is old enough to speak for herself and I don't think she needs you or anyone else to either speak for her or defend her. I was not attacking her, I was simply pointing out that the human and dog reproduction process is quite similar and by golly I believe she was wrong about the apples and oranges thing. I also stated I was not an expert in whelping pups, but I am an expert in OB nursing. I am sure that she knows alot more about whelping pups than I do, however, we can all learn from each other. Is that not what this forum is all about. Networking and resources for information is what makes this a great forum. Back off Barbie!

Yes, I can speak for myself and did. However, since you began posting on this thread you appeared to be on the attack, hence is why this happens on this forum so much. I've never been one to initiate an arguement/disagreement, but I won't back down from one, especially if I know what I'm talking about. Once again, I will disagree with you, delivering babies and whelping puppies are two different experiences.

set1958 · 07-01-2007, 06:54 PM

My first post was in response to green fluid. My opinion was that perhaps the pups are in distress like babies are when they pass meconium in utero. I went back and read it. Does not sound like an attack to me. I have cared for alot of babies that lived after enduring distress and thick green fluid (meconium) ,but you never know how well they may do in the first grade. Lack of oxygen kills brain cells in humans and animals. Just think perhaps those pups that endured green fluid for a long time could have been smarter had the bitch been sectioned.
There maybe different terms in canine reproduction, but the basics are the same. Why do you think they use oxytocin on dogs and humans?

I am not even going to get into the latter comments. I think the posts speak for themselves. It is unfortunate that some people have chosen to view what I stated as anything but constructive. You know, guys, this is my first experience with something like this going on, but I have seen it done repeatedly to others. Obviously, it happens here alot.

set1958 · 07-01-2007, 07:03 PM

My first and last Yorkie litter was in January. I am not a breeder and do not wish to be. Thanks for the nice post though. And Mardelin probably does know alot about whelping, however, she has no background to compare or contrast the differences in the reproduction of humans and animals. Sorry Mardelin, but you are wrong on that one. Just fact, no attack.

Mardelin · 07-01-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by set1958

My first and last Yorkie litter was in January. I am not a breeder and do not wish to be. Thanks for the nice post though. And Mardelin probably does know alot about whelping, however, she has no background to compare or contrast the differences in the reproduction of humans and animals. Sorry Mardelin, but you are wrong on that one. Just fact, no attack.

How do you know what background I have to say that I have to say that I do not know the differences in the reproduction of humans and animals.

I could very well turn that around since your breeding and whelping experience is limited to one litter, which would be totally unfair to you since I don't know what classes you attended in genetics, breeding, etc.

set1958 · 07-01-2007, 07:24 PM

I believe that everyone can learn from others. Why don't we just agree to disagree? I just thought perhaps someone on this thread might want to know that the green discharge after a pup could still be bad for the puppy. Perhaps the process that caused the green discharge and lack of oxygen could kill a few brain cells in the pup. Just thought someone might want to know that is a possibility.

tegamom1 · 07-01-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by set1958

Look I meant no disrespect. Why in the world does this happen on this forum so much! Alot of hostility in lots of posts that I have read.

I believe Mardelin is old enough to speak for herself and I don't think she needs you or anyone else to either speak for her or defend her. I was not attacking her, I was simply pointing out that the human and dog reproduction process is quite similar and by golly I believe she was wrong about the apples and oranges thing. I also stated I was not an expert in whelping pups, but I am an expert in OB nursing. I am sure that she knows alot more about whelping pups than I do, however, we can all learn from each other. Is that not what this forum is all about. Networking and resources for information is what makes this a great forum. Back off Barbie!

How funny! Barbie! Sorry to pop you bubble, but Barbie is my daughter Stephanie. I am fully aware that Mary can defend herself quite well but when some inexperienced person comes on here like you did, speaking to her the way you did, I most certainly will come to her defense. I have nothing but the highest respect for her knowledge and experience and yes, this forum is for learning and sharing, but I suggest you should offer your opinion in a bit more tactful way. I understand you are an OB nurse. I respect that. I'm not a nurse, but I have given birth to 4 children, so I have learned a little along the way.

Mardelin · 07-01-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tegamom1

How funny! Barbie! Sorry to pop you bubble, but Barbie is my daughter Stephanie. I am fully aware that Mary can defend herself quite well but when some inexperienced person comes on here like you did, speaking to her the way you did, I most certainly will come to her defense. I have nothing but the highest respect for her knowledge and experience and yes, this forum is for learning and sharing, but I suggest you should offer your opinion in a bit more tactful way. I understand you are an OB nurse. I respect that. I'm not a nurse, but I have given birth to 4 children, so I have learned a little along the way.

Hey Mary Ann, You are not without knowledge in both areas.....you've had 4 children and whelped a few litters too.

tegamom1 · 07-01-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Hey Mary Ann, You are not without knowledge in both areas.....you've had 4 children and whelped a few litters too.

So true, so true. After 30 years of dogs and children...Fortunately my breedings went very well, I could tell a few horror stories of the whelpings of a few puppy mill rescued Afghans...Ever seen a "sweller pup", now THAT had some "BAD" green.

07-01-2007, 06:11 PM	#49
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	green If any vet told me that was fine..I would tell them to go back to med school..what a jackXXX...! ...if the placenta is not attached, then the pup does one of two things fairly soon..never takes a breath and dies or starts breathing, asperates fluid and drowns... PS...isn't that an major emergancy in a pregnant woman also?? The baby can not get oxygen anyway except through the placenta?

07-01-2007, 06:23 PM	#51
set1958 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 79	Pat I Think YouR Posts Makes Sense Anatomy and physiology are quite the same in humans and animals. My own vet told me that they learn very little about the birthing process in school. Breeders learn the hard way by trial and error, thus they know more than most vets. A local breeder was alot of help to me. I just don't think anyone should make light of green fluid, vet, breeder, whoever.

07-01-2007, 06:00 PM	#46
set1958 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 79	Mardelin First post: green fluid is normal unless there is an odor. After my post saying it is not normal then you stated not necessarily. Perhaps I misunderstood your thought process. However, whelping pups and delivering babies is not totally opposite like apples and oranges. Both humans and dogs conceive the same way via egg and semen. Both have a certain gestational period. Both babies and pups are nourished via a placenta. Both grow inside a sack filled with fluid that breaks or is broken before their first breath. If it breaks before they are born then problems can occur. Both dogs and postpartum moms have a red to pink discharge after delivery. Both contract, dilate and deliver via pushing to expel the offspring. The main difference is that each pup has it's own sack ansd placenta. Sound pretty similar to me . Not to mention nursing and milk production. No apples and oranges here.

07-01-2007, 06:20 PM	#50
set1958 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 79	Look I meant no disrespect. Why in the world does this happen on this forum so much! Alot of hostility in lots of posts that I have read. I believe Mardelin is old enough to speak for herself and I don't think she needs you or anyone else to either speak for her or defend her. I was not attacking her, I was simply pointing out that the human and dog reproduction process is quite similar and by golly I believe she was wrong about the apples and oranges thing. I also stated I was not an expert in whelping pups, but I am an expert in OB nursing. I am sure that she knows alot more about whelping pups than I do, however, we can all learn from each other. Is that not what this forum is all about. Networking and resources for information is what makes this a great forum. Back off Barbie!

07-01-2007, 06:54 PM	#54
set1958 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 79	My first post was in response to green fluid. My opinion was that perhaps the pups are in distress like babies are when they pass meconium in utero. I went back and read it. Does not sound like an attack to me. I have cared for alot of babies that lived after enduring distress and thick green fluid (meconium) ,but you never know how well they may do in the first grade. Lack of oxygen kills brain cells in humans and animals. Just think perhaps those pups that endured green fluid for a long time could have been smarter had the bitch been sectioned. There maybe different terms in canine reproduction, but the basics are the same. Why do you think they use oxytocin on dogs and humans? I am not even going to get into the latter comments. I think the posts speak for themselves. It is unfortunate that some people have chosen to view what I stated as anything but constructive. You know, guys, this is my first experience with something like this going on, but I have seen it done repeatedly to others. Obviously, it happens here alot.

07-01-2007, 07:03 PM	#55
set1958 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 79	My first and last Yorkie litter was in January. I am not a breeder and do not wish to be. Thanks for the nice post though. And Mardelin probably does know alot about whelping, however, she has no background to compare or contrast the differences in the reproduction of humans and animals. Sorry Mardelin, but you are wrong on that one. Just fact, no attack.

07-01-2007, 07:24 PM	#57
set1958 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 79	I believe that everyone can learn from others. Why don't we just agree to disagree? I just thought perhaps someone on this thread might want to know that the green discharge after a pup could still be bad for the puppy. Perhaps the process that caused the green discharge and lack of oxygen could kill a few brain cells in the pup. Just thought someone might want to know that is a possibility.