Ok! I'll bite since I'm a little dense and having difficulty understanding your post. Not the 1st statement but, the 2nd sentence.

Not questioning you at all....just need some pounding on the head to make me understand what you're saying.

Thanks

Why? I have already answered that I NEVER sell my dogs with limited registration. I have kept up with most of my pups but if someone really thought they wanted a Czech Import Germ. Shep. and was willing to pay my prices then I guess they would have one. I try to screen my potential buyers when long distance. But in the end, no one ever knows for sure. I charge top dollar for my pups (but only have one litter a year). Years ago my husband used to raise them for the police, drug enforcement and prison systems. That has changed and I only kept one female. Mainly because she throws such nice pups and she is so mellow - which is not common for high drive dogs. We have yet to ever have a pup that was not Schutzhund quality or breeding quality. Thus, I sell my pups for that very purpose. Most don't breed their dogs because it is a lot of work. Most that acquire a dog want it for Schutzhund training and to title. People do not buy my dogs because their son Timmy, whose 2 yrs. old, wants a puppy for Christmas.

My meaning is a person has high quality dogs that they obviously spent good money and alot of hard work on to get you would not want just anyone getting ahold of them just to breed and ruining your lines. You cant just assume that everyone with 5000.00 to hand over has the best of intentions. If you are in that business, I would think you would understand about protecting your bloodlines, not asking why is it necessary to limit the registration. That question usually comes from people who arent familiar with breeding and protecting their lines or having your dogs end up where you dont want them to be.

Ok! Gotcha...it was just the 2nd sentence that threw me....but, I did get it.

I think what some people may be missing is that most SCH imports are bred for working capability, not necessarily an AKC conformational standard. In many working breeds you have "show" lines and "working" lines. Generally speaking, the working dogs aren't as "pretty" as the show dogs, but MAN can they work a ring. Getting dogs with that amount of genetic endowment for performance sport is very important to success, so people will pay the price for it. Selling on limited registration is of no use because most if not all of the pups in the litter (barring something very strange) will have the same types of drive as mom and dad. There's not too much in a puppy that you can call a "flaw" unless they have some strange angulation that would make it difficult for the pup to work comfortably. With the performance breeds, you don't want to neuter early because some dogs bloom late and rack up the titles. You wouldn't want to lose that working potential by altering the dog too early.

Sch dogs in germany must undergo a breed evaluation before they are allowed to breed and those qualifications take at least a year to meet. Are your dogs Koerklasse-d?

I understand as I've handled Border Collies and have worked with Doberman Pinsher and Border Collie Breeders....so, I'm fully aware of working and herding groups. The breeders that I know do sell their dogs with limited registration and only sell open registration dogs to those they know and trust and even with that their dogs go with a stringent contract.

These their dogs obtain duel AKC Championships in Conformation as well as Performance Events.

I've seen it done both ways. I see limited more often in non-import dogs or those that don't have high European descent. I guess that was the only explanation I had for it at the time and was the one I was given. I haven't worked a Sch dog myself yet, so I'm still learning. Now i'm not so sure why you wouldn't use a limited registration. Maybe I need to review it and make sure I have the right idea about limited...

An AKC registered, altered dog can obtain AKC Titles in performance events. The limited registration only prevents their off-spring from being registered AKC should the owner chose to ignore the breeder's limited registration and breed the dog.

I guess it depends on the reasons you are breeding your dogs to begin with. Some are in it just for the money and will sell to whoever has the cash, some want to breed for their next show dog, some want to try to breed for good quality dogs for pets for loving homes, etc etc etc. Everyone has their reasons for doing things the way they do and many times, the reasons come from previous experience or maybe from learning from other peoples mistakes. I know there are many breeders that thought they screened their customers or trusted them with their lines and they end up getting burned in the end so it is just better in their eyes to sell with limited registration or spay/neuter them. I have not been doing this for long but you wouldnt believe all of the times people email me wanting "just a puppy to love" or wanting one to show and I google their names and guess what. They are nothing more than puppymills with several different breeds. It is scary to think one of your beloved dogs would end up in a place where their sole purpose in life would be to have litter after litter and be stuck in a cage all day with no one to love them and spoil them like you do.

Oh! I'm such a dum-dum sometimes. I should really learn to read things more thoroughly. I thought it meant you had to alter the dog by a certain point. Neeeever mind! ::stuffs foot in mouth::

Well you aren't far off. Most contracts state: if the dog leaves the house prior to being altered, it will be spay/nuetered in a certain time frame. Some breeders even go so far as holding back registrations until they have vet documentation that it's been done. However, I've heard of some owners (on pets that you've placed out of your area) falsify documentations. So, it goes back to either altering them before you place them or only placing with whom you know and trust.

I don't know, I guess I am just baffled in general as to why anyone would put so much work and money and time and love into breeding and then not care what happens to the pups when they leave. Makes no sense to me...unless it is more for the love of $$$ than the dogs themselves.

Let alone betraying the trust of those breeders before you that trusted you to safe guard their lines, which are now yours.

ok i guess ill get back into this again my thread anyways. the reason i started this thread was because i was searching on the net and found web site after website that was charging more for full registration and not just some more either 100s to 1000s and i did not think this was fair. and not only that but more for the females as well. I found this out when i was searching for my girl puppy and everytime i asked about a girl puppy i got the why a girl your not breeding are you lecture, and when i told them no they still didnt beleive me and then would turn arround and raise their price for the girls they had next time i talked to them. and not only that but if its true you are only trying to protect the line then why are girls always more? and ive seen many cases of this.

The girls are usually more because they are the easiest to place. Most people want a girl so many times you need to lower your prices on the males to place them.

Females are higher because you can breed them and also because they are in more demand

From what you're saying here the breeders you dealt with were only in it for $$$$.

To be very honest, it's market value.....girls are in demand. My feeling is if you are placing on a limited registration (no breeding rights) both should go for the same amount. Now on open registration, reputable breeders sell their females at a higher amount because they are the jewels of their breeding programs. A good foundation bitch is worth much more than her weight in gold.

It's because the girls can pump out the puppies frankly. You can make a lot more off of a girl than you ever could studding your boy. You can have a lot more harm done to a line by having your girl crank out puppies. This is true in most animal hobbies as well, the females always cost more. It's almost like insurance against making that girl into a puppy farm. I think that girls and boys on limited contracts though should be the same price, but I can see why a breeder would still be afraid of getting burned.

If it were me, boys and girls would be the same price. I wouldn't be able to say either one of my babies is worth more than another because of gender, and since I wouldn't sell to someone I didn't trust, the price "insurance" wouldn't matter anyway. You'll never make money from breeding if you're doing it right, it's just the way it works.

I dont know how anyone can say its not even jsut a little about money other wise no one would breed and sell their puppies. its not like breeders are giving their puppies away so yes it is some what about money. no one here that breeds and sells puppies can say its not about money. other wise puppies would cost how ever much it cost in vet bills and tahts it, but thats not teh case is it? and not only that i do not know how many people have pmed me since joining this sight and putting annas pic on here that have wanted to know where i gt her from cuz they were looking for a male or female that looked like her to put into their breeding stock, with no mention of how healthy my baby was or that my puppy prolly isnt gonna get big enough to breed in teh first place. they were all just wanting a small male or a small female to breed. so you cant tell me everyone is worried about their stock and lienage and the dogs themselves other wise they would not have been willing to breed such a puppy.

Very good point.:thumbup:

[QUOTE=jatango;1041314]It's because the girls can pump out the puppies frankly. You can make a lot more off of a girl than you ever could studding your boy. You can have a lot more harm done to a line by having your girl crank out puppies. This is true in most animal hobbies as well, the females always cost more. It's almost like insurance against making that girl into a puppy farm. I think that girls and boys on limited contracts though should be the same price, but I can see why a breeder would still be afraid of getting burned.

ok frankly from what ive been told on this thread boys and girls according to your whole protecting the line thing that ive heard on here both sexes cause the same damage;. they would both show up on the pedigree right? the puppys dad would be on their as well and if thats still your line the onne you are trying to protect then you cant really use the excuse females make the babies cuz it takes them both. so that balogna. and they both would cause the same amount of damage as you say. to the line. so in turn its more about money cuz girls are wanted more.

Most breeders that do genetic testing, and ultrasounds and see great vets and feed the right nutrition ARE charging you the cost of the bills! Maybe the bills didn't cost them that much this time around, but imagine if the dog needed a C-section, or if she dried up and those pups had to be hand-reared? They charge you for their time and money and expertise, as it should be. The breeders that don't care about stock and lineage aren't worth their salt IMO. From what i've seen so far, yorkies have too many genetic and congenital issues not to test. Seriously, how you could breed two dogs without knowing the likelyhood of liver shunting or other genetic issues and still sleep at night is beyond me.

Who's to say a backyard breeder would even hand out a pedigree? Same with people that breed for petshops. And how did it come about that girls are wanted more? It's not because they're cuter or have less behavioral problems...there must be some reason.

if vet bills are that much and their dog has that many problems with breeding they should stop breeding them. all im saying is someone implied that this wasnt about money and i dont beleive dog breeders would exist if it wasnt. i understand dogs breed thats how they carry on their own doggy lines but when breeders come arround and breed them after eavery other heat etc and think thats fine then claim they dont do it for money is balogna. people are breeding their dogs for money and no one can tell me their not. there is no other reason for it. yes i love dogs yes i paid for my dog and im willing to admit it. but breeders are out tehre to make money for their own private gain. no one i know breeds for kicks. and no one seems to just want to let gods creatures do their own thing and if they make babies then great if they dont then fine too. but not saying theirs anything wrong with it if thats what you want to do just dont sit here and say that in some way its not about money.

exactly girls are wanted more and most breeders think its cuz they can breed and you yourself even said its cuz they can make babies well thats a money issue so you charge more.

No, the pet owners feel that they are easier to potty train and don't mark territory and more loveable. None of these things are true with the yorkie.

There you go!. That is why we sell them without breeding rights. You answered your own question with what you just said. It is for fear of seeing them go to the type of people you just described. The ones that dont care and just want the money.

No, people DEFINITELY breed for money. Those people though, are generally not considered good breeders. People that breed dogs every other heat aren't looking out for the welfare of the dog and definitely aren't trying to improve the breed. In a perfect world, everyone who bred would find the best girl they could get, look around for a boy that would help "fix" the areas that the mother was weak in and make pups that are better than the parents. They would test mom and dad for all of the necessary genetic problems yorkies can have (NOT cheap). They would have regular vet visits during the pregnancy to check on the female. They would have an ultrasound done before the birth. The tests are necessary to make sure that you aren't going to make puppies that end up sick. If you don't test and that happens, that is on YOUR head. You may have well made those puppies sick yourself. They didn't choose to come here, you bred their parents and "created" them. If they get two bad genes because you didn't buy a blood test, that's your fault. I know it sounds harsh, but it's the way I and many other people feel. I know there are lots of reasons that pups get sick that aren't genetically based. If that happens, there's nothing you can do. But wouldn't you want to prevent all the illnesses you could?

I know it's not a nice world and that people do breed for cash. These are the people I try to stay away from or at least not discuss breeding with. I generally lose my cool when that happens.

ok so why does everyone here breed? and dont say its to better your line cuz there would be no reason for that if those bettered puppies werent worth more money either in teh show ring or for a pet or a breeder dog for someone else. cuz if people were not trying to get money or notorioty. they would just be happy with the dogs they have and quit trying to make more. but people want money. so people breed and yes it may or may not better th breed but why try if what we have is already good enough and the only people ive heard talk about bettering the breed were all trying to make their puppies smaller cuz thats why they were all contacting me hey where did you get your puppy we want one that size to breed with our insert male name here. or does the breeder you got her from have any males that size we want to breed her with insert female name here. it was all about size and one of those breeders not mentioning names has posted in this thread posing as a so called we limit our registration breeder. so not to say that some of you arent actually worried about yor dogs are your lines but dont think that all the breeders on here are cuz their not and if you are one of those few who actually are trying to better the breed fine but get off your high horse and stop thnking number one your the only one who can do it and number 2 that every breeder on here or out in the world is just like you.

If you want to see what good ethical breeders are supposed to do, look at the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America's Code of Ethics and Code of Conduct. If you do all the showing and all the advertising and all the testing and pay for a great stud, it's not cheap. The dogs that should be bred are the dogs that have the makings of a great yorkie. This is evaluated in the breed ring where they are given a championship because they are of sound structure and temperament. These are the dogs that should be sold on open registration, and they are worth more. They're a better yorkie by the standard. Pet quality dogs are just as wonderful and just as loved and just as sweet, but they shouldn't be bred.