Yes, and it is nice to get the pedigree with it. Don't bother for the package with the video. I got suckered into that one, and it was a worthless video.

thanks for the info i was gonna get the video but i wont now thanks.

In searching for my new puppy (still looking!), I spoke with a couple of well known show breeders who spay/neuter the pup before he/she comes to their new home. My vet feels that that's too early to spay/neuter. I also spoke with one who was lovely and explained to me that the most important thing is that her puppies find wonderful homes and live happy lives whether it's in a show home or not. She chooses what pup she wants from the litter and the rest go to the forever homes that are right for them even if they're 'show quality' . She sells on a spay/neuter contract. Although breeding would be a longterm goal (always a dream of mine!) I'm just at the beginning of my journey toward that goal. I have so much to learn over the next few years. So....this pup will be spayed or neutered.

There are pros and cons over spay nuetering at an early age. Several articles speaking on those issues, mostely having to do with bone developement. I guess the best thing for every breeder is to know and trust their prespective new families and know that the spay nueter will be taken care of.

Yes, the most important thing is the welfare of the pup. Finding the right home for a particular pup is not an easy process, most show breeders do their approval prior to pups being born, so they do have a waiting list.

i shouldn't put this in such a serious topic but i saw a SPONGE BOB show with my daughter yesterday.

squidward purchased a PUREBRED snail who had a pedigree. he was showing her off to spongebob because his snail was a mutt. so even a snail's pedigree is important.

I THOUGHT I WOULD DIE WHEN I SAW THIS SINCE I WAS JUST POSTING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF A PEDIGREE.

I don't know about everyone else here but in my case the breeder I bought my dogs from has spent literally tens of thousands of dollars investing in her dogs and breeding program. She NEVER sells her dogs with breeding rights. I was looking for a dog and even though I knew she would not sell me breeding rights I went to see her dogs anyway. I knew that she just had a bad accident and was hurt and probably needed to get rid of some of her dogs so I gave it a shot. I stayed there for a few hours with her and for some reason unknown to me and probably to her too, she ended up liking me and trusting me and she sold me the dogs with breeding rights with the promise from me that I would NEVER let them go with breeding rights. I didnt sign a contract but she has my word and that is as good as gold. That is the reason I NEVER will sell my dogs with breeding rights. There are people here I have met along the way that I would trust with my puppies and Lord knows I could have sold them a hundred of times over if I did sell my breeding rights but a promise is a promise. I would never destroy what she has taken years and a fortune and years of hard work and dedication to build.

I didnt sign a contract but she has my word and that is as good as gold. That is the reason I NEVER will sell my dogs with breeding rights. There are people here I have met along the way that I would trust with my puppies and Lord knows I could have sold them a hundred of times over if I did sell my breeding rights but a promise is a promise. I would never destroy what she has taken years and a fortune and years of hard work and dedication to build.[/QUOTE]

Do you know how few people in the the world have your honest, integrity and ethics....not many. Especially where there word is their bond.....I've been approached by several people wanting my dogs to stud......would I ever, emphatically NO. My breeder/mentor has never asked this of me, but I do owe her so much and I would never destroy her trust in me to protect her lines.

I am saying that just because the puppy is sold with a full registration dosen't mean that it is going to be bred, or that if the puppy is sold with a limited registration that it is not going to be bred. Marking limited on the registration doesn't insure that your lines won't get tainted, or that your hard work will go down the drain. You as a breeder have to trust the person that you are selling the puppy to and trust that they will do the right thing with the puppy regurdless of registration.....and if you don't trust the person why sell them the dog with limited registration anyway??? Touchy subject and every one has different opinions about it and it just comes down to what the breeder feels comfortable in doing. But the way I look at it is, I would not sell a puppy to a person with a limited registration that I wouldn't sell a full registration to, because people lie, sadly, but they do and if the person wants to breed the dog, then they are going to no matter what. So I carefully research the buyer as I hope they research me. I have 4 puppies right now that none are sold yet. I have turned some people away because I didn't feel comfortable with their intentions. So my answer to the question originally asked is....All of my puppies are not sold with full registration, because some of them are not breeding quality, and thats what I base mine on.

I fully understand what you're saying. But, since I primarely breed for myself for my next Champion to add to my breeding program, all others go out on spay/nueter and only to preapproved homes and people that are either repeat buyers or fully recommeneded to me. I don't ship, so all pups that leave are in local proximity. But, like you say you must fully trust the family to even consider them.

So how do you determine who to give full registration to?

What I have found is that most people who are breeders today started before the close knit circle of breeders became practically closed. From the breeders I have talked to, most will admit that the politics have taken over. And that today, that is the "thing" to do. Closed reg. so that no one else can breed your puppies that you are selling. Some really do breed strictly for the betterment of the breed and such. Others just hopped on the band wagon and are doing that because the rest of the breeder world is closing their registration.
Honestly, I hate it when I get replies from a breeder that automatically states "all my pups are sold on a limited reg.". Makes me think they don't know what they are doing. I would like to think that occasionally they have pups that would be great for breeding and should sell them as such. Same for show quality. But to automatically lump all their pups into "limited reg." makes me think they don't know what they are doing. LOL

Makes me think that they are smart enough to keep their dogs out of the wrong hands. :rolleyes:

I would think that those Rothby's, Pastoral's, Yorkboro, This Time Breeders, Parkside, Stratford, Tayava breeders that have been around for 20, 30, 40 years know what they're doing......and yes, it's to protect their dogs and has nothing to do with politics.

Just out of curiosity, do you let all of your pups go with full registration?

Absolutely!!!! When someone is paying over $5,000 for one of our import Shepherds it will be up to them to determine drive, ability to Schutzhund train, etc. When we are talking about this kind of money, people don't buy my pups to go home and be a backyard breeder. Most of my contacts are through the Schutzhund club. Most are going to try and title them. Most are successful I will add also.

I disagree with you on it appearing that they do not know what they are doing....I think quite the opposite, but that's just my opinion. I would think that if they do have puppies that would be great for breeding and/or show, they would keep those or sell to a breeder with whom they know and trust. If they then have puppies that are not breeding or show quality, those would be the ones that they are selling with limited registration. Just a thought.....

Tammy

Wow...I've found just the opposite. I've run accross several instances where someone was willing to pay off the breeder to get access to breeding rights just so they could have a CH bloodline and charge a higher price for the resulting pups. I ran across one such backyard breeder in my search for my stock and quickly ran the other way! Just not a comforting thought to think their are breeders out there so willing to just hand over their good name and hard work to someone 'just because they paid for it.' Sad when the almighty dollar does all the talking.

I know a breeder that also has puppies that sells for $4000-$5000 per pup. She actually told me that she has to be careful because those are the puppies that the backyard breeders want to get ahold of because they can turn around and sell them for the same amount. Yes, not every backyard breeder is going to spend $5000 on one puppy, but just think about how many can and will to make that much themselves!

Tammy

How very sad. No one in my circle has ever done that. Over half the pups I still see if I attend Schutzhund training on Sunday mornings. I attend some of the trials, but mainly that is my husband and grown son's department. I am the one that cares for the babies, socializes, vet trips, etc. I am pretty much a little dog person. I also have never had my pups end up with a backyard breeder. NEVER. Too many cheap German Sheps. out there to do that with.
I liked the reply to which someone stated that if any of the pups do have breeding potential/show potential than those are sold to a select few. That is exactly what I was talking about. Not everyone is cut out to breed, but I do know that everyone had to start somewhere. That was my point.

Thanks for clarifying yourself.....then you are selective in who gets your pups, as most reputable breeders in the yorkie world are now. In the past, everything was done with a handshake and your word was your bond.....not that way anymore....as you see many a great line has ended up in the hands of BYBers...most likely way back in the Pedigree, but there.

Just curious, but what is the difference between there being a close knit circle of Shep vs Yorkie breeders? Essentially the same thing, right?


Yes, everyone did have to start somewhere and it sounds like everyone in your circle has the best intentions only with your dogs and it is great that you still see them at trials. If that were always the case--people with only the most noble of interests--then there wouldn't be a problem. But IMO, it is unwise to just hand over a dog to someone you know nothing about just because they are willing to pay for it. One bad breeder getting one and ruining your name with what they use it to produce...

Without naming names, is this breeder a well known exhibitor/breeder?

I will pm you....

I think everyone is overlooking the cause of all this. Today, Yorkies are the number 2 most popular breed (based on registrations with AKC). Because of this every Tim. Dick, and Harry are setting up kennels, this includes setting off part of the inside of the home so one can house more yorkies, and breed and of course they want good sound lines if they know anything. Things have changed over the last 20 years and strict measures had to be done to protect the lines. People can fool themselves all they want that it is all political. It is not! If political is loving your breed so much and trying to protect them - then call it what you want.

Breeding stock and show dogs are one in the same. Why are people calling them as if they were two different quality? We show to see if they are worthy enough to breed. If you want to breed - it should be shown first. If one is serious about breeding and showing - you go to shows, introduce yourself, let the breeders know who your are first, join the local club, etc... If you only want a pet - no need in getting full registration. Plain and simple.
This is all my opinion.

I have seen a lot of changes in our breed and some people breeding. It just seems that everyone wants to breed today and they have not done the research. Many do not even know what a pedigree is or if they do, have no clue what the names are or how to follow a pedigree. Nor do they really care.
Nothing against anyone in particular - just stating my feelings on this topic.
T.

Well Misty you sure do know how to clear a room. I think I'm going to have to invite you to one of my parties that I don't want to go on till the wee hours of the morning.

Lol...yeah, seems to be that way...leaves me wondering, 'gosh, was it something I said?'

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THIS ONE!!!!!!!!! I did not realise how many yorkie breeders are out there until i was looking for my girl. they are in every crack and corner and most (MOST) do not breed to the standard. i was told by one of you to get to know a show breeder and learn...well i did that and found an awesome person i am working with to get a good line. thanks to all of you, the quality breeder, the show breeder and exibitor for everything you have taught me. i too was once upset about the limited reg but you opened my eyes and i hope this thread will open eyes to others.
And due to the amount of Yorkshire Terriers being bred just to be bred, i do think all should be limited reg unless otherwise discussed.

Thanks Lisa.

I just could not resist this photo. At the Georgia Capitol they have this two headed calf and snake on display. As a young kid - I was amazed by this. Now that I am older and show my yorkies - it is a great reminded to me of why we must know about our lines/heritage and learn everything about them before we put two yorkies together and breed them.
T.

Oops - too fast hitting the buttons again. Here is the photo!

Thanks Lisa.

I just could not resist this photo. At the Georgia Capitol they have this - two headed calf and snake on display. As a young kid - I was amazed by this. Now that I am older and have yorkies - it is a great reminded to me of why we must know about our lines/heritage, show them, and learn everything about them before we put two yorkies together and breed them.
T.

If anyone understood the reason for limited registration, I would think it would be a breeder who shows their dogs and especially one that sells them for 5000.00. I would think that would be the last person to ask "why limited registration."