I need to find...... can you help?

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I have spent manymany hours on the computer and on the telephone trying to help new people that doesn't know much. In general, my experience has been, most of the time they want to breed on their terms, don't want to learn the reputable way of getting into YOrkies, don't want to have contracts or be mentored. they'll argue with me telling me I don't know squat and they aren't about to do anything I suggest to help them.
Many just want to breed, don't care about the quality of what they have they want to breed. It is getting so far worse right now with these types trying to get their hands on champion lines for no other reason than they are going to ask more money for any resulting pups. Then they get miffed when a reputable show breeder is not about to let them do that with their line.
There are many many posts on this forum about breeding and why you shouldn't breed your pet. Many places to find information about what a good YOrkie should look like and how to determine if it should be bred.
All that is ignored for the most part.
So do excuse me if I get impatient and sometimes get nasty as I get to the point where I know there are so few I am going to get through to anyway.
Sure I had to start somewhere but at least I was smart enough to listen to what I was told by long time reputable breeders and was smart enough to look at their dogs, see quality and strive for it myself.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for saying what I wanted to say - glad you had the guts to put it on here- I wanted to say the same thing

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I have spent manymany hours on the computer and on the telephone trying to help new people that doesn't know much. In general, my experience has been, most of the time they want to breed on their terms, don't want to learn the reputable way of getting into YOrkies, don't want to have contracts or be mentored. they'll argue with me telling me I don't know squat and they aren't about to do anything I suggest to help them.
Many just want to breed, don't care about the quality of what they have they want to breed. It is getting so far worse right now with these types trying to get their hands on champion lines for no other reason than they are going to ask more money for any resulting pups. Then they get miffed when a reputable show breeder is not about to let them do that with their line.
There are many many posts on this forum about breeding and why you shouldn't breed your pet. Many places to find information about what a good YOrkie should look like and how to determine if it should be bred.
All that is ignored for the most part.
So do excuse me if I get impatient and sometimes get nasty as I get to the point where I know there are so few I am going to get through to anyway.
Sure I had to start somewhere but at least I was smart enough to listen to what I was told by long time reputable breeders and was smart enough to look at their dogs, see quality and strive for it myself.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I have spent manymany hours on the computer and on the telephone trying to help new people that doesn't know much. In general, my experience has been, most of the time they want to breed on their terms, don't want to learn the reputable way of getting into YOrkies, don't want to have contracts or be mentored. they'll argue with me telling me I don't know squat and they aren't about to do anything I suggest to help them.
Many just want to breed, don't care about the quality of what they have they want to breed. It is getting so far worse right now with these types trying to get their hands on champion lines for no other reason than they are going to ask more money for any resulting pups. Then they get miffed when a reputable show breeder is not about to let them do that with their line.
There are many many posts on this forum about breeding and why you shouldn't breed your pet. Many places to find information about what a good YOrkie should look like and how to determine if it should be bred.
All that is ignored for the most part.
So do excuse me if I get impatient and sometimes get nasty as I get to the point where I know there are so few I am going to get through to anyway.
Sure I had to start somewhere but at least I was smart enough to listen to what I was told by long time reputable breeders and was smart enough to look at their dogs, see quality and strive for it myself.

I totally agree with you that many, maybe even most, will still do it their own way.

But is it fair to assume that everyone is like that.

You can give the same advice without making a person feel stupid for asking a question, and you are more likely to be listened to if you give the advice nicely. It's no more difficult to say something nice than it is to be rude.

You don't know that this person wouldn't listen to you, but now I can guarentee you that they won't. And chances are they won't ask anymore questions either.

On the other hand if the person is ignorant enough to argue with the person they have come to for advice, then maybe they need to be shot down.

[Mardelin]

:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I have spent manymany hours on the computer and on the telephone trying to help new people that doesn't know much. In general, my experience has been, most of the time they want to breed on their terms, don't want to learn the reputable way of getting into YOrkies, don't want to have contracts or be mentored. they'll argue with me telling me I don't know squat and they aren't about to do anything I suggest to help them.
Many just want to breed, don't care about the quality of what they have they want to breed. It is getting so far worse right now with these types trying to get their hands on champion lines for no other reason than they are going to ask more money for any resulting pups. Then they get miffed when a reputable show breeder is not about to let them do that with their line.
There are many many posts on this forum about breeding and why you shouldn't breed your pet. Many places to find information about what a good YOrkie should look like and how to determine if it should be bred.
All that is ignored for the most part.
So do excuse me if I get impatient and sometimes get nasty as I get to the point where I know there are so few I am going to get through to anyway.
Sure I had to start somewhere but at least I was smart enough to listen to what I was told by long time reputable breeders and was smart enough to look at their dogs, see quality and strive for it myself.

Great post Lorraine. Yes, reputable breeders had to start somewhere, however, they were mentored by some of the most respected breeders in the yorkie world. They listened and learned, but most of all they didn't just buy a dog and start breeding it. They listened and studied. Most of your well known yorkie breeders to date have attended breeding seminars/classes as well as attending classes on genetics. They spend countless hours studying pedigrees. The reputable, respected breeders of today's yorkie world did not get there buy chance. And I'm sure that they were scolded and spoken to bluntly by their mentors too, I know I get scolded by my mentor constantly. But, I understand she does this because of her love of the breed and she wants me to do well.

[Lorraine]

I don't assume anything when talking to a new person usually. However, I can determine very quickly what they are up to and how teachable they might be. You see, maybe they don't listen in most cases, but in every case, I listen even though I am half deaf most of the time. LOL
My responsibility is beyond my own dogs. My responsibility for my dogs and my line, goes also to my mentors, the reputable show breeders that trusted me with their lines that are part of my pedigrees, and my responsibility foremost is to the purebred Yorkshire Terrier itself. I will not betray that trust for any amount of money. Whatever I do with my dogs, either stud service or selling a dog for show purposes, neither of which I do, will carry those other reputable long time kennel names in my pedigrees. I will not put my kennel name or those of those breeders in the wrong hands.
You can find pretty much any long time reputable breeder and talk to them. There have been far too many times they entrusted their lines with the wrong person and those lines ended up in some pretty scary hands.
With the Internet now, so many bad breeders are advertising puppies for sale with pumped up prices because such and such a kennel is somewhere in that pedigree often now in the 3rd or 4th generation. You can bet that person selling that puppy can never go to that breeder of that Champion and use their stud for breeding or get a puppy from them as that breeder would never be a party to that type of breeding.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

On the other hand if the person is ignorant enough to argue with the person they have come to for advice, then maybe they need to be shot down.

OK, well, that's sort of what happened here, soooo...what was your complaint?

I went back and re-read this entire thread. I think maybe everyone should. The OP asked their question, and myself and another (few) put in our .02 cents and then in the following posts, admitted we'd been rash, jumped the gun, apologized, then moved on. Then came some chat about something that HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP--but from an off-topic comment made about ppl asking for specifics on young dogs....so I'm sorry, I fail to see how those "childish" comments could have possibly been "humiliating."

After the apologies and jokes, the OP came back with comments like:

Originally Posted by ruskeerm

How snooty are you guys anyways? I thought this was a forum for those who love their Yorkies!? Not a forum full of yuppies!

So I'm sorry, but IMO, the OP was equally at fault here. IMO, the way SHE handled the situation was not exactly "mature"...neither is this drawn out lecture of "why we should all be nice" and "who said what to who."

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

OK, well, that's sort of what happened here, soooo...what was your complaint?

I went back and re-read this entire thread. I think maybe everyone should. The OP asked their question, and myself and another (few) put in our .02 cents and then in the following posts, admitted we'd been rash, jumped the gun, apologized, then moved on. Then came some chat about something that HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP--but from an off-topic comment made about ppl asking for specifics on young dogs....so I'm sorry, I fail to see how those "childish" comments could have possibly been "humiliating."

After the apologies and jokes, the OP came back with comments like:



So I'm sorry, but IMO, the OP was equally at fault here. IMO, the way SHE handled the situation was not exactly "mature"...neither is this drawn out lecture of "why we should all be nice" and "who said what to who."

Lorraine, stated it, some people you can get through to and other's no matter how much talking, be it bluntly or politically correct, as long as you aren't saying what they want to hear.....you might as well save your breath.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Lorraine, stated it, some people you can get through to and other's no matter how much talking, be it bluntly or politically correct, as long as you aren't saying what they want to hear.....you might as well save your breath.

Yep and that's why I am doing spay/neuter on my puppies before they ever leave. A contract is only as good as the person you are entering into it with and I will take that quandry of whether or not to breed right out of the hands of any prospective buyer for my puppy.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Lorraine, stated it, some people you can get through to and other's no matter how much talking, be it bluntly or politically correct, as long as you aren't saying what they want to hear.....you might as well save your breath.

You (both) are right, sadly. I think all issues pertaining to this thread and discussion are painfully obvious now, if you know what I mean ...moving on...

[YorkieShadow]

Originally Posted by red98vett

To ALL who posted and took the time to educate on this thread....I'm not commenting but HOPE the person who wants that 'teacup' will continue to read and learn. Sometimes the direct approach is great - Bama had a Very good point - and thanks to everyone else for elaborating there is no such thing as a teacup.

It's getting so people get bashed for speaking up when we see the word 'teacup' (not this thread - just in general) - but it's NOT A Yorkie size - and people need to hear that. I remember when I was looking for my FIRST yorkie & reading up on them - within one day I knew there was no such thing as a Teacup yorkie -

EDUCATE??? I dont know if this is what I would call taking the time to educate, I didnt see much of that going on in this thread. Ok so she said teacup. fine .........all was needed to be said was there is no teacups. and then to help her with the answer to her quetion. There is a way to get through to people and help them learn with out all this, If you think this is the right way to do that then I dont agree. I would hate to come on here and ask a question and see a bunch of rude post. If I dont know the answer I would hope that someone would come and explain it to me instead of bashing me. and having read all these post befor I even know what I said that was so wrong.I know I would learn more with some one that would tell me the facts instead of all this and the other.I think Id run too.I know when I was in school I learned alot more from the nicer teachers then the rude ones.

[ButterflyYorkie]

ALL BREEDERS are going to be legislated out of business if we don't get off each others' backs and stop bad mouthing each other. I'm sure there are breeders who think so and so's dogs are crap and so and so shouldn't be breeding. It's the ugly part of the biz.

The part about being responsible is the part where you take life-long responsibility for the puppies you produce and their progeny, and the part where you produce the healthiest puppies you possibly can. The beauty pageant part is sport, and breeders who breed for show are trying to keep Yorkies looking like a breed distinguishable from all others. When they share their lines, it is an issue of trust that the people they're sharing their lines with will also strive to breed to the standard.

Should pet breeders be held to the same standard as show breeders? I think at a minimum, a novice breeder should have his/her breeding prospect evaluated by someone knowledgeable in the breed. The faults should be discussed and advice given about potential suitable mates. Ideally, you would seek more than one opinion.

Alright, I'm getting off the subject here. The bottom line is, if you want to educate people, you need to speak to them kindly. If you rake them over the coals for using terminology that's politically incorrect, you alienate them and you do nothing to help the Yorkie breed. We all need to work together to keep Yorkies healthy and out of the shelters. Avoiding the term "teacup" doesn't make one a good breeder. As a matter of fact, you can put a page on your website in bright red that condemns the word and then cleverly sell tinies in your posts.

If I can help someone, then thats great. I surely don't believe anyone would seek my help again if I were nasty to them because I could not convert them to my way of thinking. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

[DaisyMaesMom]

Originally Posted by ButterflyYorkie

ALL BREEDERS are going to be legislated out of business if we don't get off each others' backs and stop bad mouthing each other. I'm sure there are breeders who think so and so's dogs are crap and so and so shouldn't be breeding. It's the ugly part of the biz.

The part about being responsible is the part where you take life-long responsibility for the puppies you produce and their progeny, and the part where you produce the healthiest puppies you possibly can. The beauty pageant part is sport, and breeders who breed for show are trying to keep Yorkies looking like a breed distinguishable from all others. When they share their lines, it is an issue of trust that the people they're sharing their lines with will also strive to breed to the standard.

Should pet breeders be held to the same standard as show breeders? I think at a minimum, a novice breeder should have his/her breeding prospect evaluated by someone knowledgeable in the breed. The faults should be discussed and advice given about potential suitable mates. Ideally, you would seek more than one opinion.

Alright, I'm getting off the subject here. The bottom line is, if you want to educate people, you need to speak to them kindly. If you rake them over the coals for using terminology that's politically incorrect, you alienate them and you do nothing to help the Yorkie breed. We all need to work together to keep Yorkies healthy and out of the shelters. Avoiding the term "teacup" doesn't make one a good breeder. As a matter of fact, you can put a page on your website in bright red that condemns the word and then cleverly sell tinies in your posts.

If I can help someone, then thats great. I surely don't believe anyone would seek my help again if I were nasty to them because I could not convert them to my way of thinking. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

VERY well said....

[YorkieShadow]

Very well said...



It is far more common to find Breeders who have potential; Breeders who express an inquisitive, learning-based personality. These Breeders really want to make a difference in their own Breed and in the lives of New Breeders .....They may not understand all there is to know about the Breed and breeding yet but some of them are honestly willing to learn. Or they would not of came on here looking for help. Good Breeders bring an enthusiasm to the learning process that energizes the people around them. They teach what they have learned and have a good attitude about it.

Mentoring – Assign a mentor to help you learn all you can about the Breed before attempting to Breed.There are some good Breeders here that are willing to help.

This person should be a senior Breeder, development leader, or Breeder who is concerned with improving the Breed. the processes, and in helping others. The mentoring conversations should be focused around what A New Breeder is asking – not all rudeness and bashing from others.

Post reviews – Post reviews are an effective way to move someone's knowledge of going forward in a positive direction. They're done too infrequently in most Forums. In addition they're rarely approached as an opportunity for learning. They are instead an opportunity to bash the The people.who are wanting to learn more.. instead of teach....Do post reviews and approach them as a way to train and educate rather than to beat down.
Being nice will pay off in the long run. If You find that the person is not willing to listen then move on....At least you tried.
Despite the lure of finding Good Breeders when you need them for your next Questions, there are no easy answers. The success of your Breeding rests largely on the shoulders of other Breeders on the same teams. The better they are the better your chance for success. Finding solid people with the skills and drive you need is necessarily difficult. The only real way to get the answers you need is to Educate yourself read and learn all there is to Breeding.and about the Breed.Listen only to those who have breed and know what they are talking about.

I've been involved with the Breeding processes for more than a dozen years and I'll tell you with out a doubt that finding the best Breeders is possible – but it's not probable. It's a difficult process and even after reading through a thousand threads you may find only one or two Good Breeders who are truly the best and are willing to teach People who are wanting to Breed. and to improve the breed.

After lots of reading and educating yourself you may decide breeding is not for you, There is a lot of heartache in Breeding too. So you need to know the ups and downs. Good Luck and I wish you the best. If you notice ...On some of the Threads that have to do with Questions on breeding........a lot of the replies are not even From Breeders?? But from people who are still learning. Theres a lot to learn and then some.And I hope that a Good Breeder will answer your questions for you.....again Good Luck.
I think we should all read this from time to time. and understand why the Breeder Talk section is here.

Please be respectful. This is a place for questions and experiences and if you do not like the thread or the topic that has been asked/started do not respond. It is quite that simple.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28203

[JeanieK]

The problem with this forum is, one can ask a simple, inocent question, and even after you weed through all the insults for having axked such a stupid question, you can get some very contradictory answers from people who all claim to be professional, responsible breeders. So whos advice do you take.

I have asked questions on here and have been burned badly. When I see a newbie ask a question where I know they will be crucified, I want to PM them and tell them to "run for their lives."

Many of these threads end up with the "responsible" breeders arguing amongst themselves. This one turned into a discussion on how and how not to answer a question and whether rudeness is ever warranted.

I cannot believe the arrogance of some of the people on here, acting like they are the only ones qualified to decide whether a particular dog should or should not be bred.

I joined this forum to learn about breeding, and what I learned about breeding is; that it is a very cut throat business.

I've also learned:

Only show people should breed

Show people should never breed.

Ask your vet if you have a question.

Never ask your vet, vets know nothing about breeding.

If you have a question then you aren't qalified to breed

Ask questions because no individual breeder has experienced it all.

The male should always be smaller than the female.

The male doesn't have to be smaller than the female.

Only registered dogs should be bred

Registering a dog has nothing to do with it's qualification for breeding.

All dogs should come from champion blood lines

Champion blood lines can be very risky because there is a lot of in breeding.

And the list goes on

[JeanieK]

I forgot to add

Occasionally you will need to euthanize a newborn puppy to end it's suffering

Anyone who euthanizes a puppy, even to end it's suffering, is the lowest life form