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Old 09-10-2006, 01:39 AM   #1
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Default Should I say something or keep my mouth shut?

Tucker is almost a year (in November) and he now weighs 18 lbs. I wouldn't trade him for the world, but I can't help feel upset that the breeder was negligent.

Either:

A. She wasn't an experienced or responsible enough of a breeder to know he would exceed AKC standards.

or

B. She knew and sold him the same price as his much small siblings anyhow.

Regardless, I got a yorkie because of my allergies and they were pretty good candidates for agility trails. I was really hoping we'd be eligible for the purebreed trials, and not just the ones open to non-AKC.

Is it too late to bring up the fact that I am upset to have a dog that was supposedly bred from a 6-lb mother and a 5-lb father come out to be THREE times the size of the mother?

I was not expecting a "teacup" or something outrageously small or misbred, but just your normal 6-7 lb Yorkie. I was expecting the breed standard, nothing more and nothing less.

Now, I'm interested in a second dog for a companion and I really like the size of Tucker because you can rough 'em up while playing and not worry about hurting him as much...but if I get another Yorkie it might be a "normal" sized one and make my current dog look like a breed outcast. I'm almost wanting two Tuckers for the price I paid for him. I like having a sturdy, sporty dog so a "yorkie" the size of Tucker might not be a bad idea as a second dog.

Would it be wrong for me to ask for some kind of discount on the next "large" pup she has? Would it be wrong to simply voice my issues with her service?

I have spoken to several breeders about my issue with her and they all said they learned to recognize what the breed standard was and how to better guess which pups would fall under it and which wouldn't. If they didn't think a puppy would make the size, coat, color requirement then they would discount, or find a home for it. A more humane option to culling it. They ALL agreed that by no means would they advertise it as being registerable as meeting those standards and sell it full price, let alone not informing the customer of what the breeder had taken notice to. A few of them agreed that if you are a breeder that does not know to recognize a potential in a pup to meet those standards, or that does not care to learn to, that they should not be breeding dogs at all.

I don't know what to do. Tucker needs a dog his own size, plus I have my allergies and small pets that other hypo-allergetic or non-shedding breeds will go after.

What should I do? Keep my mouth shut or voice my concerns and see if she's willing to work with me?

Thanks for your opinions.
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Old 09-10-2006, 02:58 AM   #2
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I was always told "it doesn't hurt to ask", you won't be worse off if you do. I would be prepared though to hold your composure if she tells you no. Maybe take Tucker with you when you talk with her.
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Old 09-10-2006, 03:30 AM   #3
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I would go talk to her...
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Old 09-10-2006, 04:59 AM   #4
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You can talk to her.. He is a pretty big boy.
Did she guarantee the size??
A breeder can only estimate a size.

Somewhere down in the lines there were some big Yorkies.
And if her pups are mainly in the 5-7 lb range then he was a throw back.
She does need to be aware that her line did produce an overly large pup.

I know you wished he was smaller..and you didn't get what you thought you were paying for....So.. hopefully she will help you out.

Some people get upset when the dog turns out to be larger then expected (feel they got ripped off) and other are happy when the dog turns out to be smaller then expected (feel they got a great deal).

But.. lets say he was suppose to be 7lbs and turned out to be a 2 or 3 lb'er. It would not be right for a breeder to come back and say...I want more money because the dog turned out smaller.

A case in point ..a friend of mine who sells her pups at a set price..
which are normally in the 5-6 lb range but one of the pup she sold turned out to be 2.3 lbs at 8 month old....The woman got a great deal.

But.. any ways it never hurts to ask.. if she is a good breeder she will work with you...good luck to you..
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Old 09-10-2006, 05:09 AM   #5
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I say call the breeder.....open the communication. I am not sure what you paid for your yorkie....but, I would think if your breeder has bred Yorkies for more than a year or two, she would have the experience to know what to expect out of her line. Not absolute.....but a good guess.

Now, a Yorkie being a 7 or 8 or 9 lb Yorkie is quite a bit different than an 18 lb Yorkie.

At the very least....she should give you a HUGE discount.......but, most reputable breeders would offer to replace the Yorkie that you already have. Remember, they too are breeding to meet the "standard", which is as you know.....4-7 lbs.

The decision may then be up to you........do you want your Yorkie replaced????



I say call the breeder, talk it out!


Good Luck and best wishes
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Old 09-10-2006, 05:34 AM   #6
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I agree that it's a big differance in a 7-8-9 lb'er compared to an 18 lb'er.
I'd be interested in knowing what the size of the parents are.
It can still be a throw back..
A little history on the breed.
The Yorkshire Terrier had its beginnings as a breed in the Yorkshire, Manchester and Leeds counties in the northern part of England. The weavers of Scotland brought their families and dogs with them when they left their homeland. The Industrial Revolution had forced them out of work. The time was the mid 19th century, 1860’s and 1870’s. The dogs that accompanied these families were for the most part the sturdy Scottish Terrier. The Paisley and Clydesdale Terrier’s bloodlines were probably also included in the bloodlines. These were all working men’s dogs, used to keep the vermin under control in the textile mills and coal mines. What bloodlines were used to establish the Yorkshire Terrier is subject to much speculation, due to the fact that the breeders of these dogs did not write down who was bred to whom. If they liked the spirit and looks of the dogs, they mated them. It was chancey at best.
It is guessed that the Yorkshire county miners crossed the Black and Tan English Terrier, this dog was rough-coated, and the long-coated, blue-gray Waterside Terrier breeds were infused in the Scottish Terriers. The Maltese and Skye Terrier are also possibilities.
In 1865, the foundation sire of the Yorkshire Terrier breed, was born. Huddersfield Ben was owned by M.A. Foster, and he enjoyed a very public life, to popularize the breed in England. He demonstrated that he was very successful in the rat killing contests (these were quite popular in the 19th century), and he won more than 70 prizes as a show dog as well.
In 1872, the Yorkshire Terrier was introduced into the United States, and was recognized by the AKC in 1878. But it wasn’t until the 1930’s that the Yorkshire Terrier took on its modern look.
It is important to note that the Yorkshire Terrier up until the 1930’s usually weighed approximately 30 pounds, not the 3 to 7 pounds it does today.
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Old 09-10-2006, 05:44 AM   #7
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I would contact her and expess your concerns on his growing to 18 lbs and se what she says. My first Yorkie Karma was 18 lbs but the breeder showed me the aunt not the parents and I was 17 and knew nothing other than I wanted a yorkie. It wasn't his size that bothered me so much as he never grew any coat and his ears were floppy. Loved him but he wasn't anything like a Yorkie except for coloring. He was sturdy!!
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Old 09-10-2006, 06:24 AM   #8
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It doesn't hurt to ask. I don't see where you have anything to lose. If she refuses, I wouldn't think you would buy another Yorkie from her at full price anyway.

I would imagine though that if you had a contract it states on there somewhere that she doesn't guarantee size. That is pretty standard. The breeder I purchased from stated that she was positive mine wouldn't be over 2 pounds. Well she is 3 pounds at 5 months which is fine with me except for the fact that she charged me extra due to her size.

My vet doesn't believe she was the 10 weeks old that the breeder stated when I got her because of the progress of her teeth. It frightens me that breeders may be tempted to sell their pups earlier than ideal so that they can get more money for them because of their small size.
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Old 09-10-2006, 06:28 AM   #9
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I would contact her just to let her know what size he grew to be. She needs to know this if she breeds the sire and dam together again - what could happen and might not want to breed them together again.
* This is sooooo important - no breeder can guarantee the size of the pup when it reaches maturity!!* It is like your own kids - can you tell how tall or how much your son or daughter will be? No. The scale helps, but is not written in stone and is only a guess.
This is also why you need to know the weight and qualities of the grandparents and as far back as you can get. Size can come from any of the generations and not just the from sire and dam.
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Old 09-10-2006, 06:51 AM   #10
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Although he is 18 lbs, as long as sire and dam are AKC registered he can still be AKC registered and participate in AKC agility trials.
The breeder likely was inexperienced to know he could get to this sort of size.
From reading this thread, it sounds like many of you don't understand when you are buying a pet puppy (not for conformation shows) you will be getting a puppy that does not meet the stringent standards of reputable show breeder that they would consider for show quality, if that is the type of the breeder you are buying from.
However, a reputable knowledgable show breeder would definitely not sell a puppy at the regular PET price that would get to this size. A knowledgable show breeder definitely would have an idea this would happen. I would never ever suggest putting any puppy or dog to sleep because it is too big or too something unless it had some sort of horrible disease and was suffering and would die anyway.
You will also most of the time, not be buying a 12 week old puppy from a show breeder, most of the time they are more than 4 months old. At that age we are a little surer of what we have. I seldom sell a pet puppy under 5 months of age.
Any puppy that does not meet a show breeders standards for a reasonably good show dog and therefore would be kept for the show rings and breeding purposes, are sold for pet.
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Old 09-10-2006, 07:35 AM   #11
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you should say something but most likely unless this was her 1st breeding and litter she knows what size puppies her dogs produce but you never can tell how big or small they truly may be until they are actually grown.
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Old 09-10-2006, 07:53 AM   #12
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If you want another one his size why not look into a rescue Yorkie? There are plenty of them in shelters and rescue homes because they turned out larger than expected.
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:03 AM   #13
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I agree with the rescuing suggestion. There are plenty of larger sized yorkies that need to be rescued and ou would be providing them wiht a wonderful and loving home.
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:32 AM   #14
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Patti - Well his size is one issue, his ears never trained and his coat is more the curly variation than silky. I could bring up this, as well, but I'm over all that and it never really mattered to start with. I like his floppy ears.

About the rescue, I have to be careful because I have a six-year-old daughter, pet rats, and sugar gliders. I worked with Tucker since seven weeks old to be around the other pets, and also socialized him with the cats and other dogs, and just about any other animal he might come across (horses, goats, and even a monkey!) So, early socialization is a really important factor to me and I am concerned that the dog might have had a run-in with a child who didn't know how to handle dogs, and be snippy with all children. It's a possibility, I pop my head into the local shelters and rescues and petfinder.com every now and again. I actually found a 12-lb female yorkie about the same age as Tucker that was being fostered, but the very day I inquired about her she was adopted and going home the next day. I can trust Tucker with my sugar glider and I'd really like the opportunity to teach another dog how I'd like them to act around the smaller pets, but if I find the right (slightly older) oversized dog, I will be checking her out. I'm just going to be super careful about bringing home the first furbaby that needs a home without making sure they fit into our household.

Yorkiegirl2 - I was aware of the Yorkshire being a larger dog prior to 1930, and that's not what bothers me. I actually wish there were an actual breed with the same size and attributes as the original, maybe an Old Yorkshire Terrier hahah I don't know. It was the just the fact that current standards were exceeded and I was not told of any suspicion that they might.

He was one of seven pups when I showed up to visit the litter. It was evident that he was the larger, "huskier" pup out of the litter. I am quite positive that two of his sisters who were soooo tiny and shivering are most likely in the 3-lb. range as adults. The sizes in pups was across the spectrum. There was surely some indication of mine being the "healthier" and stockier one of the bunch. I should have listened to my instincts, but I wanted him off the bat. He wasn't shaking or frail, he was just completely alert and ready to play. We met the father who had a curly coat, very handsome dog though. I asked about the mother several times, but the question was lost in conversation...and forgotten about (or ignored, perhaps).

She was a nice person, but I think that on our second visit to pick up Tucker when he was old enough to come home I should have asked to see the rest of the litter to compare sizes. I drove four hours (twice) to pick him up, paid $1100 for him, and really think I deserved an "oh, by the way, he might exceed 7 lbs" or anything of the sort.

I'll write her an email, sending a picture along, and see if I can, at least, enlighten her about how large her line might be carrying. I really should have asked how many litters she's bred, but she seemed fairly knowledgeable so I didn't think to ask it.

Wish me luck! I just have to find a nice way to get my point across without sounding thoroughly upset. Thanks for the advice!
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Old 09-10-2006, 12:16 PM   #15
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I also ended up with a "Mutant Strain". Chewie is 15 pounds and 10 months old. I love him to death and wouldn't part with him. The breeder did tell me he wouldn't be a teacup and I said that was fine. I wanted a healthy, sturdy dog. I have 5 grandkids! The breeder told me he would be about 7 to 10 pounds. I am fine with his size but also ran into a problem,when I started looking for a playmate for him. I ended up with a Cockapoo that will be approximate in size and wonderful in temperment. I have had them before.
I would definately talk to your breeder and see if she will cut you a deal on another big puppy. Just like the other YT er's said , "It doesn't hurt to ask"! Good luck and give your big boy a big hug for me!
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