Protecting lines

[chattiesmom]

This is a GREAT thread, thank you YorkieRini for yet another good one! Here is my $.02 worth.

To Themselves: Breeders and Showers have a huge investment in developing their lines, both in time, research and $$. They have the right to and should closely guard their investment.

To their Buyers: They have the responsiblity to see that every registered pup sold meets the standard of what ever organization they represent (AKC, CKC. etc.), is healthy, and they fulfil any commitment made to the buyer.

To the Dogs they sell: They have the obligation to make every possible effort to see that each is placed in an environment where they will have a good life -- good food, love, medical care, etc. etc. etc.

Most of the general public don't realize how much time and $$, hardwork, and heartbreak goes into "developing a line". It isn't something that happens overnight nor does it happen without a lot of trial and error. And .... when you get the exact look, personality, etc. you are looking for, then comes the time when you have to start over and introduce new blood to prevent inbreeding.

Add to this the responsibility to do no harm to the breed and WOW..... what a huge undertaking.

[YorkieRose]

You can breed a nice line for 10, 20 , 30 years and it only take one generation of bad breeding to make the line totally unrecognizable to the orginial breeder.

[goldenray]

I had bought several Yorkies early on that were to be used in my breeding program. I bought from places that would sell to me without questions because I too didn't want restrictions. I didn't know wthat the big deal was either. Well, I bought a female that had grade 3 LP in both knees at 12wks.

Unfortunately you learned the hard way as so many newcomers do. But no one should be ripped off so badly. This is a shame against show exhibitors, but those that don't have the best are desperate to sell their dogs.

As you've learned there are show dogs and then there are SHOW DOGS. No one is going to get a quality show dog without a strict contract. Because those of us that have had the dedication to stick it out, have strict contracts. We've been burned and we are more careful. Anyone that truly cares and is breeding for themselves, and not to have show dogs to sale, won't mind. I don't hesitate to sign a strict contract. Just keep plugging away.

These are my beloved babies, not a business to me and when I make a wrong choice, which I have in the past. Who suffers most? Even though it tears me apart, unfortunately my dogs suffer most. It is up to me to make sure their homes are wonderful.

As a small breeder, occasionally I will place a wonderful dog in a show home of a friend with my strict contract, but I don't breed a lot of dogs, as I am breeding for me. In fact to be quite frank, almost all my showdogs are placed spayed/neutered as pets.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by goldenray

Unfortunately you learned the hard way as so many newcomers do. But no one should be ripped off so badly. This is a shame against show exhibitors, but those that don't have the best are desperate to sell their dogs.

As you've learned there are show dogs and then there are SHOW DOGS. No one is going to get a quality show dog without a strict contract. Because those of us that have had the dedication to stick it out, have strict contracts. We've been burned and we are more careful. Anyone that truly cares and is breeding for themselves, and not to have show dogs to sale, won't mind. I don't hesitate to sign a strict contract. Just keep plugging away.

These are my beloved babies, not a business to me and when I make a wrong choice, which I have in the past. Who suffers most? Even though it tears me apart, unfortunately my dogs suffer most. It is up to me to make sure their homes are wonderful.

As a small breeder, occasionally I will place a wonderful dog in a show home of a friend with my strict contract, but I don't breed a lot of dogs, as I am breeding for me. In fact to be quite frank, almost all my showdogs are placed spayed/neutered as pets.

Hi Cher! Did I ever learn a hard lesson. If it weren't for Dr Hutch who evalutates my puppies and has trained me from day one what is acceptable and what is not I'd probably be set back a lot farther.

The puppy with the grade three was not even from a show breeder, not even close. But I didn't want to sign a co-ownership or show, I just wanted to breed. Well I guess you can say I paid dearly from that mistake....I will be adding a male to my program in the furture (next yr or two) I know what I want in looks and health and I have NO Problems signing a co-ownership and showing ..in the long term it's a small price to pay!

[txshopper73]

Protecting lines is not something new to me. I believe that there are some breeders out there that are willing to share or help someone out with their breeding program. I believe that relationships must be built and this doesn't occur over night. It takes time and many conversations to see if you and the other breeder have a match.

Good thread!

[BlumoonYorkies]

Originally Posted by feminvstr

CC I so agree...protecting lines is #1 but sharing lines to those who share your same ethics, enthusiasm, and forward direction or goal is exhilarating. A beautiful well bred yorkie is something to be shared, the breed has become so diluted. Breeding has become more of a competition than team work, if we all reverted back to how the breed was originated and shared, what a wonderful life it would be.

We reputable established show breeders have worked hard to have healthy lines not just Champions! So protecting them is my number one concern and making sure each and every puppy that leaves here is already spayed/nuetered. I rarely sell to wanna be show homes unless they are close enough for me to mentor and guide using a strict contract. Selling for show is not important to me as I am already established in my own line. And only tell people I have Blumoon Yorkies I do not play on other kennel names either.
I am proud of what I have done and worked very hard for many yeas to acomplish my breeding program not anyone else's. So protecting it from those who want to hype on another kennel name or not care about health issue's and only selling puppies with breeding rights and studding out the dogs for money is not what it all should be about! It should for the betterment of the breed!

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by BlumoonYorkies

I rarely sell to wanna be show homes unless they are close enough for me to mentor and guide using a strict contract.

Is this the same thing as a mentoring contract??

[yorluvr]

[QUOTE=BlumoonYorkies]We reputable established show breeders have worked hard to have healthy lines not just Champions! So protecting them is my number one concern and making sure each and every puppy that leaves here is already spayed/nuetered.

Gigi, that is one thing I have not done in the past, but feel compeled to start. What age do you spay/ neuter? I have a beautiful male going to a pet home. He will be neutered before leaving but he is an older male. Many people who do not show do not understand the time and financial commitment the show breeders go through to establish a healthy line. Finding that one special show puppy in the litter is the icing.

I have no problem selling to a newcomer. But, again, they must be close by so I can attend shows with them, teach them how to wrap coats, etc. I would rather neuter my dogs and place in a loving pet home than take a chance they or their get end up in a puppy mill.
Julie
Jo-Nel, Reg'd
http://www.jonelyorkies.com

[Lorraine]

Hi yes I am also very careful where my pet puppies go. Anything that I do not feel is show quality which I mean is not the best representation of the Yorkshire Terrier, is sold for pet under spay/neuter contracts. There is no health problems etc it is just not something I want in my breeding program or anyone else's. If I deem this pup not to be my best, it isn't right to be passing on its genes to future generations for me or anyone else.
So, at what age do I make my final descions on whether or not a pup looks like show quality? Usually about 9 or 10 months unless I see something later that I decide not to keep it in a breeding program.
This might be something like colour going too light especially in a male or maybe getting bigger than I thought it would.
So if you are going to buy a show dog with the purpose of showing, breeding no breeder can know at 12 weeks or certainly under six months usually whether this is a pet quality or not.
So with all this consideration, I usually don't sell my pups which will be for pet only at this stage, until 4 -5 months of age when I make my first decision whether or not this will have potential of a show dog or 'running it on'. When I sell for pet, I screen possible buyers very carefully, have very tight contracts and sell ONLY locally so I know can meet, interview and check out references. Any pup over 6 months is spayed/neutered by my Vet before going to that new home.
I do all this to protect my lines so my pups do not end up producing crossbreeds or end up producing puppies that will be sold to puppymills or bad breeders.
As a Yorkie fancier with the passion for the purebred Yorkie, the stamp I want to leave the Yorkie world, is a very nice representative of the breed whether kept for show or sold for pet that will be spayed/neutered.

[lovesyorkies43]

Well said Julie, Gigi and Lorraine!!! This is definitely a great thread! I have had pets in the past and am now on the other side. We started with a pet bitch from a puppy store at 6 weeks of age. She turned out to be 14 lbs, floppy ears and soft coated. I know how hard it is to breed to a quality stud with a "pet" bitch. We wanted to experience the breeding aspect and ran into a reputable show breeder that was willing to breed to our "pet" bitch. She had a litter of 4 and we enjoyed them for a while until it was time to find them proper, loving, well educated yorkie homes (they were not show quality and were spayed/neutered before they were adopted).

I finished undergraduate studies and the 'show fever' hit me. I ran into the wrong breeder and was once again sold a pet. Yes the quality was better then our pet shop bitch, but still not correct according the AKC standard. I showed him to the best of my abilities until I realized that none of the dogs around me had the look and characteristics of those shown by long-time breeders. I now have 3 bitches from 2 different show breeders with 30+ years of breeding and showing.

Co-ownerships are very common in the show world. You have to realize that its all about trust. Its not a greed nor a "thick headed" syndrome so to speak. Show breeders are willing to improve the breed but not willing to breed to dogs/bitches that have many faults when compared to the standard. Naturally these faults tend to be higher in pet yorkies and lower in yorkies that come from show breeding environments. If you worked that hard for that many years you too would not want to see all your hard work shared among the pet world. I have so much respect for these long-time breeders because the breed has come such a long way within the last 40 years. These are not the accomplishments of mishap breedings over the generations. Those that sign co-ownerships with long-time breeders should have so much gratitude, because its not a way for breeders to take advantage of you. These contracts are the start of your commitment to the betterment of the breed within the show world. The mentoring and knowledge you learn from these long-time breeders is priceless. The standard co-ownerships contracts require are a pick puppy back from a co-own bitch and lifetime stud service rights to a co-owned dog. The more complex contracts should also never be a problem to those willing to improve the breed within the show world.

I have signed 2 contracts with one particular breeder and they have just recently had multiple problems with both newcomers and even with those that have shown earlier and returned to the ring. When you sign a contract, read every word. Do get caught up in the excitement of the opportunity you are being given. Be considerate in what is asked of you within the contract. If you can't abide or do not agree with certain requirements then DON’T SIGN IT!!!

Hope I didn’t get too off track.

Best of Luck
John

[goldenray]

Originally Posted by lovesyorkies43

I have signed 2 contracts with one particular breeder and they have just recently had multiple problems with both newcomers and even with those that have shown earlier and returned to the ring. When you sign a contract, read every word. Do get caught up in the excitement of the opportunity you are being given. Be considerate in what is asked of you within the contract. If you can't abide or do not agree with certain requirements then DON’T SIGN IT!!!

Hope I didn’t get too off track.

Best of Luck
John

Well said John. I hear people complain when they are ripped off then they turn around and complain about strict contracts. The important thing to remember about contracts is to spell it all out though.

I know one person that must sit at home at night thinking of ways to break the contract. So realistically, if you are ethical, contracts are not a problem and no reputable person would try to get out of one. The ones I see trying to break them are not honorable and want to make money off their dogs by breeding and selling to just anyone. Once again it's time for people to decide if they are a hobby show breeder/exhibitor or tying to be a business.

[crystalsmom]

I truly think for the most part the breeders here get along quite well in spite of the
fact that there is no doubt they compete on this site of over 7,000 people. Something comes to mind. Once when I was at a show a terrible comment was
made to someone there and someone spoke up and said "Be nice you never know
when you may want to breed to one of her dogs" I think we do need to ask
questions and get to know the ethics of the breeders so when the time comes
we have somewhat of an idea as to where to turn.

[goldenray]

Originally Posted by crystalsmom

I truly think for the most part the breeders here get along quite well in spite of the fact that there is no doubt they compete on this site of over 7,000 people. Something comes to mind. Once when I was at a show a terrible comment was made to someone there and someone spoke up and said "Be nice you never know when you may want to breed to one of her dogs" I think we do need to ask questions and get to know the ethics of the breeders so when the time comes we have somewhat of an idea as to where to turn.

There are always those that make negative comments aloud ringside which I think is very tacky. Overall most of us in the show world are very friendly to one another. Some of the best friends I have are Yorkie show exhibitors.

BTW your dog is adorable in her cute clothes. What precious pictures.

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by goldenray

There are always those that make negative comments aloud ringside which I think is very tacky. Overall most of us in the show world are very friendly to one another. Some of the best friends I have are Yorkie show exhibitors.

BTW your dog is adorable in her cute clothes. What precious pictures.

Thank You Cher, Crystal is one of the few Gator kids still living. I was lucky enough
to get her already a champion at 3 yrs old. She is such a dear. In May I will be 74
and in June she will be 12; so we are quite a pair. Both of us have tons of energy
but we're not getting any younger. lol BTW I sent these very pics to Roberta the
other day and I got a lovely email from her yesterday....she's proud of her little gal.

[yorluvr]

Originally Posted by crystalsmom

Thank You Cher, Crystal is one of the few Gator kids still living. I was lucky enough
to get her already a champion at 3 yrs old. She is such a dear. In May I will be 74
and in June she will be 12; so we are quite a pair. Both of us have tons of energy
but we're not getting any younger. lol BTW I sent these very pics to Roberta the
other day and I got a lovely email from her yesterday....she's proud of her little gal.

Hi Joan, just wanted you to know Roberta sent pictures of Crystal to the "Red Bow Girls". I replied I had seen that picture before of her in the sweater and scarf. Now, I can put two and two together. It's homes like yours where we hope our retired champions finish our their lives. Roberta also said she hopes to come back in her second life as a pampered pet. Sounds good to me.
Julie
Jo-Nel Reg'd Yorkies

Oopss.....should have said hat and scarf. Anyway...too cute!