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Old 01-07-2006, 07:15 PM   #1
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Default Opinions on Breeder Types

I am curious to know how you would define the following types of breeders. These are all terms I have persoanlly heard of. If I missed any, feel free to add it to the list and a description.

Backyard Breeder: Someone that knows NOTHING about the history, standard or reproduction. He/She just sells to anyone and doesn't educate the new owners.

Hobby Breeder: I really don't have an opinion on this. I don't use the term anymore.

Professional Breeder: Someone that is well versed in all aspects of the breed (History, standard, reproduction). They know their lines and make thought out decisons as to why to mate a pair. I would say the majority would show as a way to measure their breeding program.

Commercial Breeder: Someone that is knowledgeable in reproduction. Has a large breeding facilty with all the amentities to keep their dogs comfortable. Some may be well versed in all aspects of the breed but are not.

Puppymill: A large facilty that breeds dogs for profit. Nothing else matters. Kennel conditions are filthy and unkept. Most of the time puppies are sold to pet stores.

I am sure there are other opinions, some may not agree with mine. Let's just keep this civil. Neither of us are right or wrong. These are just opinions, nothing more!

Thanks.
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:27 PM   #2
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I would like to say about your selection...

professional breeder gives the conintation as if it ones sole business and breeds as his/her source of income.

A hobby breeder definition imho is your definition of a professional breeder
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feminvstr
I would like to say about your selection...

professional breeder gives the conintation as if it ones sole business and breeds as his/her source of income.

A hobby breeder definition imho is your definition of a professional breeder

I know. I guess i'm on the fence now that you mentioned the source of income thing. Where's your google definitions of Hobby and Professional to clear it up .
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:33 PM   #4
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http://www.kateconnick.com/library/breeder.html

Not all breeders are created equal, and neither are the puppies they produce. Keep in mind that, by definition, anyone who owns a female dog at the time it gives birth is a "breeder." It is not always easy to tell the difference between a good breeder - a responsible hobby breeder - from an unknowledgeable "backyard breeder" or a commercial "puppy mill" breeder. Things to look for as you search for your breeder:


How long has the breeder been involved in this particular breed? If it is a breed that has recently become popular, beware of someone who has jumped on the bandwagon to make a fast buck. They may not have the best interests of the breed nor buyer in mind. The person with the slickest web page is not necessarily the best breeder!


Does the breeder produce animals markedly different from the typical examples of the breed? Beware of non-standard deviations from a breed being marketed as "rare" to justify exorbitant prices. Non-standard variations of purebred dogs (eg., white Dobermans, longhaired Whippets, miniature Dalmatians, etc.) are generally considered undesirable by legitimate breeders. Nonetheless, if you are insistent that you want a non-standard version of a pure breed, make sure you demand the same in terms of health and temperament scrutiny that you would of someone breeding conventional purebred dogs.


Along the same lines, are the animals being bred actually purebred dogs belonging to a breed recognized by some legitimate registry? I love mutts, but there’s no excuse for someone to charge hundreds of dollars to sell what is essentially a glorified mutt (eg., Cockapoo, Schnoodle, etc.). Unscrupulous breeders will claim that cross-breeds are somehow immune to the genetically-based health problems of their purebred brethren. This is not true. Again, if you are insistent that you want a cross-breed, make sure you demand the same of the breeder that you would of someone breeding purebred dogs.


How knowledgeable is the breeder about this particular breed? Are they familiar with its historical origins? Can they educate you about the breed's disadvantages - especially genetic predisposition to health problems and characteristics like shedding, slobber, dominance, inter-dog aggression, etc. that may make owning the breed a challenge? Beware of anyone who sounds like a salesman and tells you that their breed has no disadvantages! Good breeders will play devil's advocate.


Does the breeder show their dogs in conformation, obedience, agility, schutzhund, field work, etc. to prove their dogs' quality as breeding stock? Can they demonstrate their dogs’ abilities to you? Frankly, I do not believe that this is a requirement for one to be a good pet dog breeder, but those who actively compete in dog events tend to have an overall higher commitment to the breed. Still, don’t be fooled by titles, per se. A pedigree full of conformation "champions" has absolutely zero relevance to someone seeking a healthy, happy pet.


Is the breeder "kennel blind" (believing that their dogs are perfect) or can they tell you the strengths and weaknesses of their particular dogs? What is their goal in breeding? Is their goal consistent with your vision of an ideal pet? If they are breeding for "health and temperament," have them explain exactly what they mean. Their idea of ideal temperament and yours may differ dramatically. If their goal is to produce their next show dog, have them explain how that will translate into a good pet for you. Ear-set and tail carriage mean nothing if the dog they produces bites your children or dies of cancer before his fifth birthday.


Are the breeder's dogs screened for genetic health defects like hip dysplasia, eye disorders, hypothyroidism, Von Willebrand's disease, epilepsy, cardiac conditions, and anything else that is common in the breed? Can they provide you with proof, e.g., CERF and OFA certification and other relevant veterinary documentation? A good breeder will welcome your concern and be glad to offer the requested information - beware of anyone who is defensive! An excellent breeder will candidly discuss the health of their line of dogs, including the problems that have cropped up. Even good breeders can produce unhealthy dogs on occasion. The difference is that the good breeder is on a mission to find and remove those genetic influences from their breeding lines. The irresponsible breeder approaches health in a haphazard manner.


Does the breeder have any old dogs on the premises? How long have their own dogs lived, and from what have they died? Beware of the person who sells off their adult dogs that are retired from showing and breeding. You want a breeder who loves the breed, not someone who loves to breed.


How many breeds is this person breeding? Ideally, someone will have a special interest in only one breed (perhaps two). A Jack-of-all-Breeds truly is a master of none. How many litters does the breeder have in any given year? A good breeder may breed one or two litters, or may not breed at all for a year or more between litters. More is never better. Anyone who is producing a large number of dogs is probably doing it at the expense of quality.


Are the breeder's dogs kennel dogs or house pets? While it is sanitary to keep large numbers of dogs outside in a kennel, you want a breeder who keeps their dogs in the house with the family. Breeders who keep their dogs in kennels may have temperament defects (like excessive dominance) of which they are not even aware. Puppies should be raised inside an active home to begin socializing them to a household environment.


Will the breeder provide you with the names of their veterinarian and several past purchasers to serve as references? If given a choice, request pet references. Certainly a professional trainer will be able to handle a tough puppy, but what about a family with three kids and a cat? If the latter just loves the temperament of their dog, that speaks volumes. Ask the breeder about the homes that haven't worked out. There are bound to be some. Is the breeder honest that they made a poor placement, sympathetic to someone who underwent a life change that necessitated returning a dog, blunt that they produced a problem dog... or is the breeder bitter and accusatory about the person who bought the dog? Beware of the narrow-minded breeder who places blame on everyone but themselves.

there is more to the link
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:35 PM   #5
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Thanks for posting that Kimberly.
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:38 PM   #6
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method of making a living and aspired to become a professional breeder

Backyard Breeders -

Definition

These are the folks that will breed their favorite pet dog for any number of reasons:

They want the children to witness the miracle of birth.

They want Muffy to have just one litter before they spay her, so that she won't miss out on motherhood.

They want to make a little extra money for Christmas.


There are probably a hundred other reasons that these folks will breed their pets. They do not do much in the way of genetic testing, most of the time not even being aware that any test should be done. They will usually use the closest dog around for breeding, not really checking out pedigrees or temperament of the stud dog and whether or not he will contribute anything to this breeding.

The backyard breeder will usually keep the bitch in the house, in an area that is clean. Sometimes they will keep the puppies in the house for awhile after birth, but often they are relegated to the backyard (thus the term Backyard Breeder) or the garage as soon as the breeders have to start cleaning up after them. The children and adults playing with them may socialize the puppies to some extent. The mother of the litter is usually left with the puppies, so she has some chance to teach them some manners. These puppies are often sold at 6-7 weeks. Although this is a better time, it can be too early for some breeds.

Cost

This will usually be a reasonable price, especially if the dog you are buying is a popular breed that is readily available. They will keep the price low to be competitive so that they can move all the puppies. Some will even give them away, depending on why the breeding took place to begin with. Although the potential for high vet bills later in life is still there, it can be a less likely potential than from the above listed sources.

Hobby Breeders -

Definition

Hobby Breeders are those that breed for the love of the dog, giving no thought whatever to profit. Although they are often involved with dog sports of some kind, this is not always the case. However, the hobby breeder does study pedigrees, looking for a dog that will add something to the offspring of the litter. They know the breed standard and select the stud and bitch with an eye towards physical correctness, sound bodies, genetic health and the ability to perform the task for which the breed was originally created.

The hobby breeder will study which genetic problems are prevalent in their breed and test accordingly, often at great cost. They guarantee the health of the dogs in many cases, and sell dogs on a contract. If they determine that the puppies are not of breeding quality, they will require that the puppy be spayed or neutered at the appropriate time. They often will place them on limited registration, meaning that any offspring will not be able to be registered with the American Kennel Club (for more information on registration, visit The AKC Rules and Guidelines for Registration.

Hobby breeders will usually not let puppies go home before the age of 7-12 weeks, depending on the breed and they do much to make sure they are properly socialized. Many will do temperament testing on the puppies matching the right puppy with the right buyer. They will expose the puppies to strange noises, sights and smells. The mother of the litter is left with the puppies to teach them proper manners and friends and family are brought in for the express purpose of socializing the litter with people.

Shot records are kept and family histories (complete with pictures) and other good advice, are sent home with each and every puppy. Some puppies even have a good foundation on crate training and housebreaking when they go to their new homes.

Hobby breeders will question potential buyers, often asking for references and doing background checks. Some folks have said it can be harder to buy a puppy from some breeders than to adopt a child. They encourage you to ask questions and welcome you to their home to see how the puppies are being raised and how the adult dogs they have react with strangers and children.


When a hobby breeder plans a litter, it is usually to have something new to compete with, be it breed competition, obedience or agility, or any number of other events. Their only other goal is to ensure that the puppies they place are in a home for life. Responsible breeders will insist that you bring a puppy back to them, if you are unable to keep it - for any reason, during any stage of its life. They will encourage you to call with any problems, no matter how small or trivial they may seem. They are there to help - for the life of the puppy.

Cost

For buying direct - this will be the most "up front" cost. However, for this cost, you are getting a puppy that is guaranteed healthy, whose parents were tested for genetic problems and has been socialized a great deal. The potential for high vet bills in the future is the lowest from this source.
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:39 PM   #7
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I have had experience with a byb or two in the last few years. I say that they were out for a quick buck and They breed what they can get their hands one even from puppy mills. l
Love to try and pass as hobby breeders but have no clue what it takes to make socially adjusted babies. l
Let alone a proper place to raise the pups. You got money you got the pup. Do not let the door hit you as you leave and health guarantee is to the end of the drive way. Registration of dogs is to costly so never done even if they have dogs they can register. Would not know what a true standard Yorkie looks like as they breed what they can get and not to standard. Bloodline what is that?? willing to breed daughter to father for the money. it is alive. looks cute you can breed it. How much can I make?

Hobby Breeder is one that is learning the craft and is trying to do right by the breed and does not show as yet or is working on getting into showing.
Careful placement of pups. Maybe a first time breeder learning the craft.
Have a health guarantee and are knowledgeable or know where to look for help. May not understand blood lines but learning.
Needs a mentor.

Professional Breeder:is knowledge able stand behind what they puppies.
Is a mentor. willingly open to sharing history of breeding stock. Willing to share the faults they see in their line. understands bloodlines and can quote their line pretty much by heart. Shows so that they know they have a nice dog in standard to breed.
Places pups with extreme care.
Is a mentor

Commercial Breeder: Willing to breed anything and everything and sell to a pet store. Large facility not great for individual care of every dog and pup.
Social skills in the dogs are lacking. Where is the love of the breed or is it the love of the money one can make?

Puppy mill - H--- on earth.

JMO
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:41 PM   #8
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this should have been at the top of the last page sorry!

Types of Breeders:

There are many different levels of breeders being discussed around the world today. Some of the most common are:

Puppy Mills -
For Profit Only commercial breeding facilities, usually with very bad conditions.

Commercial Breeders - Those breeding for profit only, kennel conditions usually cleaner than puppy mills.

Backyard Breeders - Those that breed their pets for various reasons, usually only once or twice.
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkie Mum
I have had experience with a byb or two in the last few years. I say that they were out for a quick buck and They breed what they can get their hands one even from puppy mills. l
Love to try and pass as hobby breeders but have no clue what it takes to make socially adjusted babies. l
Let alone a proper place to raise the pups. You got money you got the pup. Do not let the door hit you as you leave and health guarantee is to the end of the drive way. Registration of dogs is to costly so never done even if they have dogs they can register. Would not know what a true standard Yorkie looks like as they breed what they can get and not to standard. Bloodline what is that?? willing to breed daughter to father for the money. it is alive. looks cute you can breed it. How much can I make?

Hobby Breeder is one that is learning the craft and is trying to do right by the breed and does not show as yet or is working on getting into showing.
Careful placement of pups. Maybe a first time breeder learning the craft.
Have a health guarantee and are knowledgeable or know where to look for help. May not understand blood lines but learning.
Needs a mentor.

Professional Breeder:is knowledge able stand behind what they puppies.
Is a mentor. willingly open to sharing history of breeding stock. Willing to share the faults they see in their line. understands bloodlines and can quote their line pretty much by heart. Shows so that they know they have a nice dog in standard to breed.
Places pups with extreme care.
Is a mentor

Commercial Breeder: Willing to breed anything and everything and sell to a pet store. Large facility not great for individual care of every dog and pup.
Social skills in the dogs are lacking. Where is the love of the breed or is it the love of the money one can make?

Puppy mill - H--- on earth.

JMO
Joy
Joy I am sorry but you truly have the definition wrong on the hobby breeder most show breeders are considered hobby breeders by definition
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:51 PM   #10
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I call myself a Yorkie Fanicer, who breeds/shows. The word fanicer can mean connoissour, which means some degree of expertise in the arts etc..Breeding, is an art. IMO.

Commerical breeders and Puppy mill can be interchangable. Mass production of pups is a mill..commerical breeders mass produce. Most puppymillers have a commerical license or they can not sell to brokers who place the pups in pet shops. There are dirty commerical breeders and clean puppy mills.

The term most show breeders use for non-show breeders is a backyard or pet breeder..I do not agree.

If you do not breed for a living or too show, then you breed for pure enjoyment and it is your hobby.
I like the term Hobby breeder and use it for those who do not show, but are very reputable and ethcial. It is a good term to me.

I have changed my title..I am a Yorkie fancier, who breeds and shows as a pleasurable hobby. LOL
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Old 01-07-2006, 08:00 PM   #11
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Thanks, Kimberly! You saved me from a lot of typing!
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Old 01-07-2006, 08:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feminvstr
Joy I am sorry but you truly have the definition wrong on the hobby breeder most show breeders are considered hobby breeders by definition
Ok ?? then would my definition of a professional breeder better fit a Hobby breeder then?
I was not thinking that Pro "where professional breeder gives the conintation as if it ones sole business and breeds as his/her source of income.":

I was thinking that the are knowledgeable and had their ducks in a row about breeding.

This is one area I still have a ton to learn about as it is the lest interesting to me as I have no desire to breed but will one day want another one some where down the line, so best start to understand.
I know one thing I do not want a pup from the breeders in my area as most fit the BYB standards and fake like, well best keep it clean, they are Hobby breeders.

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Old 01-07-2006, 08:39 PM   #13
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feminvtsr posted a chart on a thread recently with the distinctions listed in a chart format...I liked it but the highest category was reputable breeder and it required 15 years, officer in club, judge at shows and writer of articles.

Does anyone else remember it?
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Old 01-07-2006, 08:39 PM   #14
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I for one think that those of us who have been involved in breeding and have a passion for our yorkies pretty much knows the answers to these questions anyway.
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Old 01-07-2006, 08:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose
I have changed my title..I am a Yorkie fancier, who breeds and shows as a pleasurable hobby. LOL
LMAO isnt that a hobby breeder that fancies yorkies
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