Not sure is Shy is preggers... (2 weeks-ish)

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

He has been a member here since 2/2012. He has had plenty of time, and the resources available here at YT to do research on what goes in to breeding BEFORE he and his roommate got the bright idea to stick two dogs together.

That, IMO, makes what he is doing exceedingly irresponsible. You can't learn what you need to know about safely whelping on a website or by watching YouTube videos. You need a hands-on mentor who will be there with you during the whelp, and preferably had you assist with a whelping before your own dog does. There are so many things that can go wrong, before during and after a whelp, and it takes an experienced eye to know how to intervene or when an emergency vet is needed to prevent the loss of either a pup or the dam.

The OP describes himself as being in the medical field. Hopefully he will realize that his training doesn't cover this. I would also hope he would realize that it's both offensive and trivializing to refer to breeding as "preggers" and "knocked up".

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by jaydoubledub

I would really like to believe that. The snooty ones with nothing except time to post on here and talk down to people seem to not care about anything but how they look. It's a shame. The only thing on some people's minds is the attention they get and how they think they look to others.

Very untrue, but that's ok, I can take it- you can think all you want about me. I really don't care.

What I do care about is how you wanted to "knock up" your small under 5 pound female. It is one thing if it happened on accident.. but to plan it makes me sick. You know nothing about breeding, whelping, you have no medical background regarding the bitch or sire.

You have put your precious dog, one who sounds like she hasn't had the best upbringing in the worst case scenario. If this is something you wanted to do to her, you should have done all the things you are trying to do ahead of time. Prepared yourself, found a mentor, research, research and more research. As Donna has said you are extremely irresponsible. I not only feel sorry for you, I feel deeply sorry for Shy. I hope you wise up and figure out breeding is not something you can learn overnight… she will be having those puppies before you know it and you will still be unprepared.. I hope you do the right thing and find a vet you trust and have an emergency spay.

[Rhetts_mama]

Do you really think this thread is about you? It's about the safety Shy and more importantly, the safety of other dogs whose owners might think its cute or fun to breed without doing their research first.

Just because you are irresponsible doesn't mean that other people have to be. You have zero credibility with what you say. First our dog was 3, then she's 2. Your roommates dog "got to her", then you say it's a planned breeding. You don't know your dogs lines, you haven't had proper health testing done (hint, it's not routine vet checks). You are irresponsible, ill prepared and above all dangerous to the health and well being of your dog.

There is a reason people should spay and neuter.

[gemy]

Finding a whelping coach is usually planned ahead of time;however I would ask my vet for a referral as u r a novice breeder.
Next I would check out any local dog clubs for their breeder members,someone might be willing to take this job on

Of course how I am used to seeing this done is the breeder who sold u Shy, would have made arrangements with you to oversee the whelp

Now if u have not seen Debbie Jensens whelping site it has lots of good info.

Also the breeding library here has some articles well worth the read

Plse get to know the signs of distress in Labour and have a backup emergency plan

Also consider what are your future obligations financial support knowledge etc to your future puppy owners.

I wish u both a safe whelp and healthy pups

[Yorkiemom1]

[QUOTE=Rhetts_mama;4299849]He has been a member here since 2/2012. He has had plenty of time, and the resources available here at YT to do research on what goes in to breeding BEFORE he and his roommate got the bright idea to stick two dogs together.

That, IMO, makes what he is doing exceedingly irresponsible. You can't learn what you need to know about safely whelping on a website or by watching YouTube videos. You need a hands-on mentor who will be there with you during the whelp, and preferably had you assist with a whelping before your own dog does. There are so many things that can go wrong, before during and after a whelp, and it takes an experienced eye to know how to intervene or when an emergency vet is needed to prevent the loss of either a pup or the dam.The OP describes himself as being in the medical field. Hopefully he will realize that his training doesn't cover this. I would also hope he would realize that it's both offensive and trivializing to refer to breeding as "preggers" and "knocked up".[/QUOTE]

When I first read the op's post, my initial thought was, "Here we go again....novices that have absolutely no experience or knowledge in the PROPER way to breed dogs, junping into the deep end of the pool, THEN realizing they cant swim, endangering their own life as well as anyone that may try to save them from thieir own mistake, and for what glorified purpose.... Then I distanced myself from the post because I was soooooo upset over the incident and the missed/ignored opportunities by this poster to get educated BEFORE he proceeded with such jouful abandon to "make his little lady happy" .....then there is my pet peeve of a "fuzzy and warm"feeling, glorifying the op's cause by addressing OTHER members posts, rather than addressing the poster, chastising and correcting how another member should be thinking/addressing the op.....but the thing that really was off setting to me was the crude way this unfortunate little lady was so "lovingly" referred to as perhaps being "preggers" and possibly "knocked up". I personally find those terms, used in ANY situation, as crude, rude, degrading, and offensive, when used by ANYONE....but when used by anyone with any experience in "medical field", this is IMO, totally unacceptable. Shy is NOT a "horedog" (purposelly misspelled to pass censorship), she is a little lady that has been put in an unfortunate position. But Rhetts-momma nailed exactly what I assumed I was the only one thinking.....

[Lorraine]

Here is the reality of breeding and yes just one litter on the way makes you a breeder.
Be prepared to take time off work within about a week of whelping which can happen 59-63 days after conception although can be early or late. Too early they are premature and increases the likelihood of losing the litter. There are still the ones that can be born dead for various reasons, you have to be ready to deal with that.
Someone has to be there during whelping and for about a week afterwards, perhaps longer if a new and especially inexperienced mom. Then there is what to do if one is a weakling how to get it nursing perhaps having to tube feed to help it then lose it anyway sometimes at 3, 7, 10 days of age.
At whelping, to know that all pups have been expelled and the placentas have come out. Does she need antibiotics? Most of the time they do a nd I always put them on for 7 days. I am lucky I have a knowledgable vet and always have them on hand. After whelping to be sure to watch for any complications on mom. You lose the mom you will be raising the puppies if they survive. That means 24 hour round the clock feeding of setting your alarm for every 60min to get up and feed and wiping bums etc to get them to potty.
Your responsibility continues through the weaning process as you have to feed and clean up after them. And watch for any health issues than can manifest now that they are no long supported by their moms system but their own kidney, heart liver etc. Sometimes things can go wrong you can lose a pup at weaning time or shortly after, hopefully before being sold so you deal with it not some brand new owner with their dear puppy. If that happens you reimburse the purchase price. You better have a contract outlining what you will cover as you could be liable for any vet fees they ran up in determining the problem. AS I read the posts on here, it came to light your bitch is fearful personality. Did you realize all her puppies likely will be. Attitude is very inheritable that’s a reason why breeders who know better would never keep one like that in a breeding program.
Then at 10 weeks first vaccs vet check. About 4 weeks later 2nd vaccs and vet check then they can go to a new home. Gee these are not out at the door at 8 weeks and you will be doing the cleaning up and care for them.
What about genetic diseases. Sire and dam can be carriers and not manifest a disease but their pups may. That’s one reason you need to know the pedigree, what dogs are in it and if anything has shown up in them or puppies produced. It is a tricky thing as carriers do not exhibit anything but pups can, sometimes a whole litter. One breeder I know of years ago produced a litter of 3 and 2 of the sibs came up with legge calves perthes. She was knowledgable about her line but it happened anyway. Such as it is in the breeding world..
I hope for your girls sake all goes well. Things can go terribly wrong even with a first litter. I have been doing this for about 18 years, have mentors, excellent Vets and let me tell you , no litter yet has been a walk in the park as I know what can go wrong, I know what has gone wrong.
Why do I do it? I have no idea it sure is NOT the money. I make nothing I don't break even I have to support us with my job I do. I have no vacations, income is chaotic as I chose to have my own business so I could take time off as needed. No paid holiday, no paid sick leave, no company pension plan no nothing. I am totally on my own with all that stuff.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Here is the reality of breeding and yes just one litter on the way makes you a breeder.
Be prepared to take time off work within about a week of whelping which can happen 59-63 days after conception although can be early or late. Too early they are premature and increases the likelihood of losing the litter. There are still the ones that can be born dead for various reasons, you have to be ready to deal with that.
Someone has to be there during whelping and for about a week afterwards, perhaps longer if a new and especially inexperienced mom. Then there is what to do if one is a weakling how to get it nursing perhaps having to tube feed to help it then lose it anyway sometimes at 3, 7, 10 days of age.
At whelping, to know that all pups have been expelled and the placentas have come out. Does she need antibiotics? Most of the time they do a nd I always put them on for 7 days. I am lucky I have a knowledgable vet and always have them on hand. After whelping to be sure to watch for any complications on mom. You lose the mom you will be raising the puppies if they survive. That means 24 hour round the clock feeding of setting your alarm for every 60min to get up and feed and wiping bums etc to get them to potty.
Your responsibility continues through the weaning process as you have to feed and clean up after them. And watch for any health issues than can manifest now that they are no long supported by their moms system but their own kidney, heart liver etc. Sometimes things can go wrong you can lose a pup at weaning time or shortly after, hopefully before being sold so you deal with it not some brand new owner with their dear puppy. If that happens you reimburse the purchase price. You better have a contract outlining what you will cover as you could be liable for any vet fees they ran up in determining the problem. AS I read the posts on here, it came to light your bitch is fearful personality. Did you realize all her puppies likely will be. Attitude is very inheritable that’s a reason why breeders who know better would never keep one like that in a breeding program.
Then at 10 weeks first vaccs vet check. About 4 weeks later 2nd vaccs and vet check then they can go to a new home. Gee these are not out at the door at 8 weeks and you will be doing the cleaning up and care for them.
What about genetic diseases. Sire and dam can be carriers and not manifest a disease but their pups may. That’s one reason you need to know the pedigree, what dogs are in it and if anything has shown up in them or puppies produced. It is a tricky thing as carriers do not exhibit anything but pups can, sometimes a whole litter. One breeder I know of years ago produced a litter of 3 and 2 of the sibs came up with legge calves perthes. She was knowledgable about her line but it happened anyway. Such as it is in the breeding world..
I hope for your girls sake all goes well. Things can go terribly wrong even with a first litter. I have been doing this for about 18 years, have mentors, excellent Vets and let me tell you , no litter yet has been a walk in the park as I know what can go wrong, I know what has gone wrong.
Why do I do it? I have no idea it sure is NOT the money. I make nothing I don't break even I have to support us with my job I do. I have no vacations, income is chaotic as I chose to have my own business so I could take time off as needed. No paid holiday, no paid sick leave, no company pension plan no nothing. I am totally on my own with all that stuff.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by jaydoubledub

I know.

However, I'm not going to get into an ethic debate. I came here to ask questions and for help. If I were being a true braggart then I wouldn't have bothered. I'm not by any means an expert, but, I also didn't need an expert and I'm sure a well-respected breeder telling me I shouldn't do something. Actually, something quite the opposite. Nowadays people seem to only promote others "on their level". Pointing out risks and hazards are great. Providing all the routes and possibilities of anything is always a great characteristic of a good expert. I can only assume you were not offering to be my mentor though, as you were not trying to promote my joy in the possibility of my loving Shy being gifted with pregnancy.

I'm sorry for the rant, but, human nature is to rebut someone who instantly criticizes them. If I were trying to convince on of my junior service-members to not purchase a vehicle or to wait and find another place to do so, then I'd give them all the options. If they really wanted it their way, I'd tell them it's their choice and try to help them make the best decision. Granted, this is not a vehicle so the metaphor isn't exact. Either way, thanks for posing the questions. Admittedly you were being judgmental, but, I choose to believe your heart was in the right place.

To all who are being so helpful, thank you.

The problem is that many of us have seen this situation go bad or seen the pups from a situation like this be sick and or die. The ones of us who are saying it is best to spay her are doing so because of looking at the facts and the statistics of the situation and others. On this bored we have seen a lot and our experiences and what we have seen should be taken into consideration. I understand you might be joyful but there are many reasons not to and you need to look at the negatives too. This poor baby girl of yours has no voice so somebody has to try and be her voice. Its is not fun to be pregnant and it is painful to give birth and do you know how hard it is when a female looses all of the pups its terrible for them and very heartbreaking is this something you really want to put her through?

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by lainacohen

GUYS!!! He has some valid points here. I truly understand and agree with all points here but when some of the senior members attack those who have questions it doesn't help. He is in the situation that he is in based on a choice he has made that you may not agree with. Well since we can not change his mind on the decision the only viable thing to do now is help support him in all aspects of the process. You/I may not like it but now it is time to help him in order to prevent any wrongs that could come up.

Once again you can't change the past. Lets be supportive for the future, aye?

I think maybe you need to do a little more research about breeding about about how many things can go wrong. Accidents happen but how you handle them is what counts and this accident could be handled with an emergency spay. There was no one attacking him and people are giving him really good information to think about.

[gemy]

Within the limited bounds of an on line forum you have received lots of advice and help. And yes you have had many posts warning not only you but future readers of this thread a more responsible way of going through with the whole breeding idea

You will need for the best safety of your gal Shy hands on help

There are no shortcuts to responsible breeding and there is are real financial outlays

If you do not have butterflies of real concern for the life of your Shy then you simply do not know enough of what can go wrong

I have given you what advice I can despite knowing the regrettable circumstances of how Shy came to be bred

[theporkieyorkie]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Here is the reality of breeding and yes just one litter on the way makes you a breeder.
Be prepared to take time off work within about a week of whelping which can happen 59-63 days after conception although can be early or late. Too early they are premature and increases the likelihood of losing the litter. There are still the ones that can be born dead for various reasons, you have to be ready to deal with that.
Someone has to be there during whelping and for about a week afterwards, perhaps longer if a new and especially inexperienced mom. Then there is what to do if one is a weakling how to get it nursing perhaps having to tube feed to help it then lose it anyway sometimes at 3, 7, 10 days of age.
At whelping, to know that all pups have been expelled and the placentas have come out. Does she need antibiotics? Most of the time they do a nd I always put them on for 7 days. I am lucky I have a knowledgable vet and always have them on hand. After whelping to be sure to watch for any complications on mom. You lose the mom you will be raising the puppies if they survive. That means 24 hour round the clock feeding of setting your alarm for every 60min to get up and feed and wiping bums etc to get them to potty.
Your responsibility continues through the weaning process as you have to feed and clean up after them. And watch for any health issues than can manifest now that they are no long supported by their moms system but their own kidney, heart liver etc. Sometimes things can go wrong you can lose a pup at weaning time or shortly after, hopefully before being sold so you deal with it not some brand new owner with their dear puppy. If that happens you reimburse the purchase price. You better have a contract outlining what you will cover as you could be liable for any vet fees they ran up in determining the problem. AS I read the posts on here, it came to light your bitch is fearful personality. Did you realize all her puppies likely will be. Attitude is very inheritable that’s a reason why breeders who know better would never keep one like that in a breeding program.
Then at 10 weeks first vaccs vet check. About 4 weeks later 2nd vaccs and vet check then they can go to a new home. Gee these are not out at the door at 8 weeks and you will be doing the cleaning up and care for them.
What about genetic diseases. Sire and dam can be carriers and not manifest a disease but their pups may. That’s one reason you need to know the pedigree, what dogs are in it and if anything has shown up in them or puppies produced. It is a tricky thing as carriers do not exhibit anything but pups can, sometimes a whole litter. One breeder I know of years ago produced a litter of 3 and 2 of the sibs came up with legge calves perthes. She was knowledgable about her line but it happened anyway. Such as it is in the breeding world..
I hope for your girls sake all goes well. Things can go terribly wrong even with a first litter. I have been doing this for about 18 years, have mentors, excellent Vets and let me tell you , no litter yet has been a walk in the park as I know what can go wrong, I know what has gone wrong.
Why do I do it? I have no idea it sure is NOT the money. I make nothing I don't break even I have to support us with my job I do. I have no vacations, income is chaotic as I chose to have my own business so I could take time off as needed. No paid holiday, no paid sick leave, no company pension plan no nothing. I am totally on my own with all that stuff.

Great insight. It seems like a lot of people think having puppies is an 8 week commitment, and then it's over. If you breed a dog, you should be prepared to be responsible for that dog for life, if that's what it comes to...if the owners have to surrender it back for any reason, OR if the dog has health issues that are the result of bad breeding/genetics passed on down the line....it should be up to the breeder to take care of it. If ALL breeders did this, we wouldn't have a need for rescues.

Just recently, look what happened with a puppy Lady Jane had. A lady had to give up her puppy to a rescue because she couldn't afford the vet care for it. The breeders answer was just to throw her another dog and let someone else take care of the sick puppy...and Lady Jane and the rescue she works with, were left footing the vet bills and dealing with the heart ache. The breeder made the decision to bring the puppy into the world, it should have been up to the breeder to take care of it!! Not the new owner...and not the rescue!!

Whenever anyone wants to breed a dog, i feel like they should go volunteer at a shelter for a few days first. There are too many dogs out there that need a "pet" home....there are Yorkies of every age and size sitting in rescues all over the country. So breeding a dog just because you want puppies, or thinks she wants puppies, IMO isn't a good enough reason to justify adding to the pet population. If you have 1 puppy, that's one less home another homeless dog can have. It's a little too late to change things now...but hopefully the OP will consider getting his little girls spayed and the male dog neutered.

If you do decide to spay and terminate the pregnancy, I'd be happy to point you to some places to help get your mother a yorkie, since i know you planned on giving her a puppy. I just rescued one myself a few months ago and rescuing is such a GREAT feeling!!


More food for thought...MOST(if not ALL) responsible breeders require a spay and neuter contract. Why...because they want to protect their name, their line and their dogs. The fact that you and your roommate have both intact dogs make me wonder what kind of breeder you guy got your puppies from, where neither of them required that you spay or neuter your dogs. My guess is...if they didn't require a spay/neuter contract(like I hope you will with your puppies), they were not breeding responsibly...and they might have paired dogs that shouldn't have been paired and the problems could get passed down to your dogs puppies. Most breeders that have good lines want to protect their lines...the fact that someone doesn't care to protect it, makes me wonder why.

[jaydoubledub]

Originally Posted by theporkieyorkie

Great insight. It seems like a lot of people think having puppies is an 8 week commitment, and then it's over. If you breed a dog, you should be prepared to be responsible for that dog for life, if that's what it comes to...if the owners have to surrender it back for any reason, OR if the dog has health issues that are the result of bad breeding/genetics passed on down the line....it should be up to the breeder to take care of it. If ALL breeders did this, we wouldn't have a need for rescues.

Just recently, look what happened with a puppy Lady Jane had. A lady had to give up her puppy to a rescue because she couldn't afford the vet care for it. The breeders answer was just to throw her another dog and let someone else take care of the sick puppy...and Lady Jane and the rescue she works with, were left footing the vet bills and dealing with the heart ache. The breeder made the decision to bring the puppy into the world, it should have been up to the breeder to take care of it!! Not the new owner...and not the rescue!!

Whenever anyone wants to breed a dog, i feel like they should go volunteer at a shelter for a few days first. There are too many dogs out there that need a "pet" home....there are Yorkies of every age and size sitting in rescues all over the country. So breeding a dog just because you want puppies, or thinks she wants puppies, IMO isn't a good enough reason to justify adding to the pet population. If you have 1 puppy, that's one less home another homeless dog can have. It's a little too late to change things now...but hopefully the OP will consider getting his little girls spayed and the male dog neutered.

If you do decide to spay and terminate the pregnancy, I'd be happy to point you to some places to help get your mother a yorkie, since i know you planned on giving her a puppy. I just rescued one myself a few months ago and rescuing is such a GREAT feeling!!


More food for thought...MOST(if not ALL) responsible breeders require a spay and neuter contract. Why...because they want to protect their name, their line and their dogs. The fact that you and your roommate have both intact dogs make me wonder what kind of breeder you guy got your puppies from, where neither of them required that you spay or neuter your dogs. My guess is...if they didn't require a spay/neuter contract(like I hope you will with your puppies), they were not breeding responsibly...and they might have paired dogs that shouldn't have been paired and the problems could get passed down to your dogs puppies. Most breeders that have good lines want to protect their lines...the fact that someone doesn't care to protect it, makes me wonder why.

Thanks theporkieyorkie.

It just goes to show, because, you post a lot doesn't mean you know everything. I appreciate your insight and finesse in the matter. I never said I was set on her having pups. I said I wanted it. People assume I blindly went in to this. I have looked into it prior to leaving. To be honest, I thought her cycle had passed before I went away for a month. I was actually leaning toward not breeding her. Of course I still kind of wanted to breed her, in all honesty, but, the health issue was/is a concern.

Lorraine, you too have been very helpful. You have given more perspective that I can appreciate and learn from.

And again, no one has stepped up to help coach or mentor me. Sad, because there's a lot of bashing. I've seen a few posts with helpful comments and they're appreciated. Luckily, I still find the site more helpful than not. However, I will probably just read others' posts and not ask anything. It doesn't seem constructive to ask people about breeding, because, it becomes more of a headache than helpful. I always give the benefit of the doubt to most people. Some just are expected to be who they are though. Oh well...

Between Shy's vet and forums such as YT and others, I believe I'll be able to make the right call for my girl, one way or the other.

[jaydoubledub]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

There was no one attacking him and people are giving him really good information to think about.

I suppose you didn't read the whole thing. Yes, over half are attacking.

Either way, you make a good point. Thanks for the words.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by jaydoubledub

Thanks theporkieyorkie.

It just goes to show, because, you post a lot doesn't mean you know everything. I appreciate your insight and finesse in the matter. I never said I was set on her having pups. I said I wanted it. People assume I blindly went in to this. I have looked into it prior to leaving. To be honest, I thought her cycle had passed before I went away for a month. I was actually leaning toward not breeding her. Of course I still kind of wanted to breed her, in all honesty, but, the health issue was/is a concern.

Lorraine, you too have been very helpful. You have given more perspective that I can appreciate and learn from.

And again, no one has stepped up to help coach or mentor me. Sad, because there's a lot of bashing. I've seen a few posts with helpful comments and they're appreciated. Luckily, I still find the site more helpful than not. However, I will probably just read others' posts and not ask anything. It doesn't seem constructive to ask people about breeding, because, it becomes more of a headache than helpful. I always give the benefit of the doubt to most people. Some just are expected to be who they are though. Oh well...

Between Shy's vet and forums such as YT and others, I believe I'll be able to make the right call for my girl, one way or the other.

I'm confused as to why you think someone should step in to mentor or coach you when you haven't done your part. You've had all the information available to you for the past 18 months, yet you didn't bother to research or prepare. It doesn't give a mentor much confidence that you would follow through with doing what's right for Shy.

[jaydoubledub]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I'm confused as to why you think someone should step in to mentor or coach you when you haven't done your part. You've had all the information available to you for the past 18 months, yet you didn't bother to research or prepare. It doesn't give a mentor much confidence that you would follow through with doing what's right for Shy.

Again, not helpful.