Loosing puppies

[auntielaurie]

Just a reminder...LOOSE MY NUMBER..I never want to hear from you again.

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by Micah my love

Deb i have waited for this post a very long time now, I have seen so many breeders bashed for asking a question, when some doing most of the talking didn't have a clue as to what it takes to whelp a litter, and did not know diddly squat about the person that was being criticized, there were so many knowledgeable breeders here that have left...I feel lucky to have known a few inc. you

And I second that! All of the experienced breeders have so much valuable information to share, based on actual experience. I sometimes wish that the members who are not actually breeders, who have no practical experience, and who have only "read" about breeding etc. to form their opinions, would state in their posts that is just their opinion based on research, and not from experience. Huge difference.

The average person asking for help has no way to differentiate between those with real knowledge and experience, and those who just talk like they have it.

BTW that is just my humble opinion, I am definitely not a breeder. But I have a huge amount of respect for those of you who are, and are trying to do it the right way. The fact that you offer your help to people on YT is amazingly generous and very commendable. Kudos to you all!

[gemy]

For our large breed, rarely are two adult males allowed free un attended roam of the house, and most particularly not when females are in heat. There if your only choice is in home, separate floors and crates for every-one.

Some breeders build large wrap around porches - weather protected and that can work well for the adult dogs. Puppies and nursing moms are house indoors and then in a separate secure room. If you have the space we like large fenced exercise areas, and most performance breeders have their equipment ready to go in that space.

It is important with my breed as with Yorkies that socialization starts early and well actually never really stops over the lifetime of the dog. So easy access to the house is key for many practical reasons.

We do not have many large scale breeders, so few have an actual separate kennel. Some convert a garage, some take a portion of their barn to convert. Many solutions.

One of my mentors has 8 BRT's and that is a whole lot of Care! She also has help, but still her life is mainly devoted to taking care of the dogs. Training, showing, grooming them et al.

Personally I'd love to have the space and (the money) to have a great room I think you call it in the States - with a separate entrance to the backyard and the runs. On entry I'd like to have a fancy foot bath thing, with a floor blow dryer, to get those dirty feet clean when then come in!. The great room will be for the dogs and would be off the kitchen so even if they are in their crates they are part of the bustle of the house. Of course a separate grooming would be nice too!

Oh yes our crates have padded beds, with sturdy washable covers - so no wire on feet!

[gemy]

Right now you are in the process of grieving. Most experts say do not make any major decisions during this time frame.

So give yourself some time, there is no hurry to make up your mind, today or even next week.

I do hope you stick around, if only to do some reading here.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by auntielaurie

Just a reminder...LOOSE MY NUMBER..I never want to hear from you again.

I offer help when asked for it.....you had asked for help, for "honest answers", and I gave that to you....I do not "force feed" information to anyone that is not interested.... I would have been using my valuable time from my own schedule, sharing information I was willing to share with you....you certainly have made it clear to me you are not interested in what I have to offer you.....that is perfectly fine with me....no hurt feelings here! What "number"???!! Again, good luck with what ever direction you take...wishing you only the best!

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by Amazing Yorkies

Taylor, are you a breeder? You were judging her. You jumped all over her about breeding, and didn't help answer her question at all. She already is a breeder, she was asking about losing a puppy.
Did you know that AKC actually prefers a building. Home breeders have a bigger chance of an oops breeding, or death from a dog fight while unattended. What do you think most "home" breeders do for containment? A "Yorkie Room" with cage after cage, and sometimes stacked cages. Now, how is that better than a building with no wire flooring, and access to outside? I've currently got 7 Yorkies fighting for my lap, and my bed was too full of Yorkies last night to sleep, but I also have a building for the safety of young babies and breeding containment, with access to outside, heat, A/C, toys, amazing flooring, beds, and lots of room, not wire crates of some home breeders. I have cameras on every one, so that I can see and hear what's going on at all times.
All you've ever seen is the videos of mills that use wire flooring, dirty, matted dogs, living in disgusting conditions. It is deplorable how they treat those precious babies! However.. not all buildings are like that.
ALL Breeders need containment of some sort, and it's not always that black and white. We all need to do our homework, but maybe not be so opinionated.

I am so glad you posted this, I almost never make a post in here because I am not a breeder so I feel I am not well enough informed about most of the subjects. But I have been around yorkies for over 25 years and several came from top of the line show breeders. I have been at their homes and homes of other serious breeders, many have out buildings that would rival some of our homes. I read that post shortly after it was written and came close to posting but changed my mind because I felt I did not have enough experience to comment. The breeder I bought two of my dogs from had the most beautiful building with a porch, a fenced in yard around the building and rotated dogs in and out of her house on a regular basis, plus she had a bed out there where she spent many a night with sick pups or during whelping. Like someone else said I wish that only people that bred answered questions or made judgment comments in this section. When you think about it, as a newbie you come specifically to the breeders section hoping to get help from breeders not just anyone that owns a computer, anyway Deb thanks for your comments on this.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Amazing Yorkies

You know, I think she was just very sad and needed to vent. You know us.. we all cinch up our breeders pants and go on, learn, and prevent.
I hope she's not discouraged from coming back.
Yorkiemom I can feel your passion! You're right, we never quit learning, but she needs to be here for one of her avenues for learning, not mad and click off. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes have to take a break from here, and you brave it out. There are many posts you answer that I just cannot face, and we all appreciate what you've done to help. But this lady didn't sound like the typical "My dog bred by accident 2 times.. 2 different days", now what do I do?
Taylor, are you a breeder? You were judging her. You jumped all over her about breeding, and didn't help answer her question at all. She already is a breeder, she was asking about losing a puppy.
Did you know that AKC actually prefers a building. Home breeders have a bigger chance of an oops breeding, or death from a dog fight while unattended. What do you think most "home" breeders do for containment? A "Yorkie Room" with cage after cage, and sometimes stacked cages. Now, how is that better than a building with no wire flooring, and access to outside? I've currently got 7 Yorkies fighting for my lap, and my bed was too full of Yorkies last night to sleep, but I also have a building for the safety of young babies and breeding containment, with access to outside, heat, A/C, toys, amazing flooring, beds, and lots of room, not wire crates of some home breeders. I have cameras on every one, so that I can see and hear what's going on at all times.
All you've ever seen is the videos of mills that use wire flooring, dirty, matted dogs, living in disgusting conditions. It is deplorable how they treat those precious babies! However.. not all buildings are like that.
ALL Breeders need containment of some sort, and it's not always that black and white. We all need to do our homework, but maybe not be so opinionated.

I know from my personal experience with the yorkies I know one of them being mine she would absolutely make her self very very sick if she was kept away from humans so i am just going by my experience and my opinion.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I know from my personal experience with the yorkies I know one of them being mine she would absolutely make her self very very sick if she was kept away from humans so i am just going by my experience and my opinion.

Taylor what you missed in Amazing Yorkies response, was the fact that you never answered any of the OP's questions. The OP was asking about the loss rate of puppies amongst experienced breeders! And this was one thing Amazing Yorkie pointed out to you. Again you seemed to have missed at least some of what Amazing Yorkie said to you.

It appears to me that you actually didn't read the OP's whole and quite detailed post, but just "saw" outside kennel and equated that with some-one who is not "doing" things right, and jumped on that. Did you actually miss the fact that the kennel is heat and a/c'd with protected run areas? Did you miss the fact of the time and expense this breeder went to to save a puppy ? Did you miss the fact that she said she did a whole lot of health testing? It is obvious to me, you did not or were not able to bring into a contextual context the whole of the OP's post; including but not limited to the fact she was grieving the loss of her puppies!

When some-one comes here for help and especially help with a specific issue, step back please and let the more experienced folks help.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Amazing Yorkies

You know, I think she was just very sad and needed to vent. You know us.. we all cinch up our breeders pants and go on, learn, and prevent.
I hope she's not discouraged from coming back.
Yorkiemom I can feel your passion! You're right, we never quit learning, but she needs to be here for one of her avenues for learning, not mad and click off. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes have to take a break from here, and you brave it out. There are many posts you answer that I just cannot face, and we all appreciate what you've done to help. But this lady didn't sound like the typical "My dog bred by accident 2 times.. 2 different days", now what do I do?
Taylor, are you a breeder? You were judging her. You jumped all over her about breeding, and didn't help answer her question at all. She already is a breeder, she was asking about losing a puppy.
Did you know that AKC actually prefers a building. Home breeders have a bigger chance of an oops breeding, or death from a dog fight while unattended. What do you think most "home" breeders do for containment? A "Yorkie Room" with cage after cage, and sometimes stacked cages. Now, how is that better than a building with no wire flooring, and access to outside? I've currently got 7 Yorkies fighting for my lap, and my bed was too full of Yorkies last night to sleep, but I also have a building for the safety of young babies and breeding containment, with access to outside, heat, A/C, toys, amazing flooring, beds, and lots of room, not wire crates of some home breeders. I have cameras on every one, so that I can see and hear what's going on at all times.
All you've ever seen is the videos of mills that use wire flooring, dirty, matted dogs, living in disgusting conditions. It is deplorable how they treat those precious babies! However.. not all buildings are like that.
ALL Breeders need containment of some sort, and it's not always that black and white. We all need to do our homework, but maybe not be so opinionated.

I honestly had no idea that good breeders used out buildings I had only ever seen and heard of puppy mills and bybs using them so I am sorry for that. I still think I might be a little uncomfortable with it because I wouldn't really know if my puppy got enough human interaction.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Taylor what you missed in Amazing Yorkies response, was the fact that you never answered any of the OP's questions. The OP was asking about the loss rate of puppies amongst experienced breeders! And this was one thing Amazing Yorkie pointed out to you. Again you seemed to have missed at least some of what Amazing Yorkie said to you.

It appears to me that you actually didn't read the OP's whole and quite detailed post, but just "saw" outside kennel and equated that with some-one who is not "doing" things right, and jumped on that. Did you actually miss the fact that the kennel is heat and a/c'd with protected run areas? Did you miss the fact of the time and expense this breeder went to to save a puppy ? Did you miss the fact that she said she did a whole lot of health testing? It is obvious to me, you did not or were not able to bring into a contextual context the whole of the OP's post; including but not limited to the fact she was grieving the loss of her puppies!

When some-one comes here for help and especially help with a specific issue, step back please and let the more experienced folks help.

I saw she said she was new to breeding so I thought I would put my opinion in I don't have to be a breeder to know its hard when you do it right. It did not say ac just heat, it didn't say she did health testing, and it didn't say protected runs either it said fenced in area. I also apologized to her and then later about my assumption of out buildings, all I have ever known was puppy mills and bybs that used them so all threads can teach everyone things even ones her are not the op. I do have to say if anyone read the terrible post she wrote to yorkiemom who was trying to help her before it was deleted I am not sure everyone would be as nice. It was terrible and if that's how lots of breeders on here get responded to like that its no wonder they leave. I was just shocked when I read it.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I saw she said she was new to breeding so I thought I would put my opinion in I don't have to be a breeder to know its hard when you do it right. It did not say ac just heat, it didn't say she did health testing, and it didn't say protected runs either it said fenced in area. I also apologized to her and then later about my assumption of out buildings, all I have ever known was puppy mills and bybs that used them so all threads can teach everyone things even ones her are not the op. I do have to say if anyone read the terrible post she wrote to yorkiemom who was trying to help her before it was deleted I am not sure everyone would be as nice. It was terrible and if that's how lots of breeders on here get responded to like that its no wonder they leave. I was just shocked when I read it.

Again you re-iterate you did not read her post - she was asking for information on puppy loss. And yes she said she was new to breeding - only having had 5 litters..... Health testing she did say in post 3 or so.
The point is and remains you did not answer any of her questions in her original posting - for how could you? You don't have the knowledge.

My point is. If you don't know the answer to the question asked - why answer?

What she responded to YorkieMom1 I don't know. But I do know she was upset and grieving her loss - and in that situation sometimes we re-act in a way we wouldn't in a calm situation.

[chachi]

Im sorry for the loss of the pups. Ive been through this before with a kitten litter. I did everything I could but I couldnt save them. I believe when you cant save them there is most likely something health wise going on with them. I hope you dont blame yourself it sounds like you did everything you could do. I wouldnt give up on breeding just yet right now while you are understanable emotional.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Again you re-iterate you did not read her post - she was asking for information on puppy loss. And yes she said she was new to breeding - only having had 5 litters..... Health testing she did say in post 3 or so.
The point is and remains you did not answer any of her questions in her original posting - for how could you? You don't have the knowledge.

My point is. If you don't know the answer to the question asked - why answer?

What she responded to YorkieMom1 I don't know. But I do know she was upset and grieving her loss - and in that situation sometimes we re-act in a way we wouldn't in a calm situation.

Well people tend to respond on all threads on this board weather they have answered the ops question or not. Yorkiemom is also dealing with the loss of two yorkies older yorkies that she has bonded with for years yet she still never called any one names of cussed at them.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Well people tend to respond on all threads on this board weather they have answered the ops question or not. Yorkiemom is also dealing with the loss of two yorkies older yorkies that she has bonded with for years yet she still never called any one names of cussed at them.

Yet again and for the last time. YOU did not ANSWER the OP's question and why is that? The fact that others do it is no justification at all!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by gemy

Again you re-iterate you did not read her post - she was asking for information on puppy loss. And yes she said she was new to breeding - only having had 5 litters..... Health testing she did say in post 3 or so.
The point is and remains you did not answer any of her questions in her original posting - for how could you? You don't have the knowledge.

My point is. If you don't know the answer to the question asked - why answer?

What she responded to YorkieMom1 I don't know. But I do know she was upset and grieving her loss - and in that situation sometimes we re-act in a way we wouldn't in a calm situation.

I apologized and that is all I can do. Certain things were not said until after my post nothing I can do now.