Loosing puppies

[DBlain]

Originally Posted by gemy

Opinions are one thing we all have them, just like eyes n ears. I did not personally say no one but breeders should respond to a post. I did say if you do not know the answer to the specific question asked, well
let others respond who do. and don't respond off topic and with judgement throughout.

EXACTLY and especially so early in the thread, once some is judged harshly the thread changes tone and most often not in a good way

[chachi]

I understand what you are saying about judgements but people go off topic all the time all over this forum I really dont see that as a big deal.

[msyorktown]

AuntieLaurie, I am so sorry for your loss of your two babies. I know for a fact it is heartbreaking when one of our babies has to be returned to our Creator.
I am not a breeder so I can't offer an opinion on your original question, however I will ask that you stay on the forum.....there is a wealth of information here that we all learn from, I for one have learned from this thread alone. There is always something I learn on here everyday.
I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do....again please accept my condolences on the loss of your precious babies.
RIP Little Ones

[Amazing Yorkies]

Originally Posted by gemy

Taylor what you missed in Amazing Yorkies response, was the fact that you never answered any of the OP's questions. The OP was asking about the loss rate of puppies amongst experienced breeders! And this was one thing Amazing Yorkie pointed out to you. Again you seemed to have missed at least some of what Amazing Yorkie said to you.

It appears to me that you actually didn't read the OP's whole and quite detailed post, but just "saw" outside kennel and equated that with some-one who is not "doing" things right, and jumped on that. Did you actually miss the fact that the kennel is heat and a/c'd with protected run areas? Did you miss the fact of the time and expense this breeder went to to save a puppy ? Did you miss the fact that she said she did a whole lot of health testing? It is obvious to me, you did not or were not able to bring into a contextual context the whole of the OP's post; including but not limited to the fact she was grieving the loss of her puppies!

When some-one comes here for help and especially help with a specific issue, step back please and let the more experienced folks help.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by chachi

I understand what you are saying about judgements but people go off topic all the time all over this forum I really dont see that as a big deal.

Because everyone has a difference of opinion and views.

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by gemy

Opinions are one thing we all have them, just like eyes n ears. I did not personally say no one but breeders should respond to a post. I did say if you do not know the answer to the specific question asked, well
let others respond who do. and don't respond off topic and with judgement throughout.

My thoughts exactly, and you said it much better than I could.

[Amazing Yorkies]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Breeders do many things that are not discussed with people outside of breeding, simply because if you do not breed, you have no way of knowing all the specifics and the mechanisms of how this all works. I would imagine it is safe to say the majority of breeders have a "kennel building" where their dogs may stay at night, or if the breeder is not home...you can not possibly have 7-15 dogs, both males and females, running loose, mixing it up, in your house, 24/7. That is unrealistic and actually a safety hazard. You not only are at risk for horrific fights, you risk unwanted pregnancies, pregnancies by "God only knows who" out of the group of males you have....it is just not practical. You have dogs darting out doors when they open, you have incessant barking, and you can not clean house with such goings on! Most people think only puppy mills have dogs contained in "out buildings"....but I can guarantee you, the money spent on some of these kennels, rival guest houses! Your reputable breeders do not have dogs enclosed in tiny, wire rabbit style hutches, with wire floors, and their dogs are not kept in the large crates the breeders use, for hours a day...usually they go to crates when you need to do housework, or if there are workmen inside the house, or at night. There are hours set aside for play, quiet interaction/socialization with family, activity areas for running off steam, etc. Dogs are gathered and crated during storms, so if necessary, you can grab them up and get out. You also keep your males separated from the females unless you are watching closely....you do not have those "ooops" encounters that result in breedings between dogs you had not planned on breeding. AuntieLauries out building kennel was actually fantastic! I can tell you it was NOT cheap, and it was well designed.... I wish I had the money to have one of those kennels built that are completely washable with water jets positioned all over the building, where all surfaces are misted with any solution you want to use....they are fantastic little buildings, with great living quarters for your dogs, grooming area, area for any medical care, giving injections, dressing changes, giving meds, storage areas, of course running water, a/c and heater, with adjoining attached runs with flooring, and of course, video and audio monitoring of the entire building and crate and run areas, etc....but they are $40,000.00- $80,000.00.....CLEARLY nothing puppy mills would ever think of investing in! People that do not breed just have no way to know the logistics of safely and hygienically being able to maintain a breeding business. So you should keep a clear, open mind about breeders and how they operate. You would be surprised how much "conventional wisdom" people have encased what they consider "a reputable breeder" and "acceptable breeding practices" in, is actually not quite the whole picture.

Beautifully said!

[auntielaurie]

Well it seems we got a little off topic with the whole kennel thing.I wish it could be move to a more appropriate place. Seems like people need to be more educated on the subject...to hear the pros and cons of it's use.

I really wanted to know from the breeders when do you stop spending money on a puppy. One that may or may not survive? It is a question worthy of an answer..I ask this because I don't know . I did get one answer from yorkie lady, but I'd like to know about the rest of you. Feel free to pm me if you don't want your comment on the forum..
I know the emergency vet We went to wanted to run a lot of extra test that if you are doing a c-section would be answered as soon as you open up the mama..Even vets are sometimes scandalous..just wanting more money
Sorry a few more question.
How many breeders have used oxytocin? Does it help..prevent a c-section?
What about a calcium drip? I gave my girl Oxy cal from Revial that was suppose to prevent a c-section and she just threw it up..
This is alot of questions...only answer what you know about or have used.

[Micah my love]

Oxytocin is not something a beginner should use, it can cause their uterus to rupture killing mom and babies

[bjh]

Originally Posted by auntielaurie

Well it seems we got a little off topic with the whole kennel thing.I wish it could be move to a more appropriate place. Seems like people need to be more educated on the subject...to hear the pros and cons of it's use.

I really wanted to know from the breeders when do you stop spending money on a puppy. One that may or may not survive? It is a question worthy of an answer..I ask this because I don't know . I did get one answer from yorkie lady, but I'd like to know about the rest of you. Feel free to pm me if you don't want your comment on the forum..
I know the emergency vet We went to wanted to run a lot of extra test that if you are doing a c-section would be answered as soon as you open up the mama..Even vets are sometimes scandalous..just wanting more money
Sorry a few more question.
How many breeders have used oxytocin? Does it help..prevent a c-section?
What about a calcium drip? I gave my girl Oxy cal from Revial that was suppose to prevent a c-section and she just threw it up..
This is alot of questions...only answer what you know about or have used.

There is no simple answer to your question as to how much is to much to spend on a puppy. It honestly depends what is wrong with the puppy or the dog. Sometimes the kindest thing to do is to let them go. It should be a personal decision between you and your vet.

Oxytocin is not for preventing a c-section. Oxytocin will stimulate the contractions of the uterus. If the female is carrying a very large puppy or if a puppy is blocking the birth canal and oxytocin it given it can be very dangerous for the female. Some people give oxytocin after all the pups are born to help clean out the uterus. When my girls are delivering pups I just give them a little Nutri-cal occasionally and it really seems to help with the contractions.

A calcium drip is usually used if a female is experiencing eclampsia.

[auntielaurie]

I ask the oxytocin question not because I wanted to use it.. I thought the vet did it. I wanted to know if anyone has had much luck with it..in stead of a c-section to get contractions going stronger.

[magicgenie]

The few times I've had weak puppies I've sought out veterinary advice. One taught me how to tube but didn't hold out much hope. The whelp died next day. Another time an emergency vet taught me how to bottle feed and prescribed an antibiotic due to rattly sounding breathing. The whelp lived to thrive. Another time the emergency vet talked me into surrendering one I thought looked hopeless. She wanted to try to pull him through, but he had some obvious issues that would require surgery. I gave her the puppy and my best wishes. I guess you have to find veterinarians you trust.
My vet now trusts me with oxytocin, but you really need instruction in when to use it. You can cause problems administering it too early or too much. Calsorb can help with contractions, but my girls sometimes just spit it up too. IV calcium can help, but I leave that to the vet to decide. When I have a girl due to whelp I have my vets lined up---regular vet is some distance away and doesn't do night and weekend emergencies, so I'm always prepared to go to the nearest emergency vet at the first sign of trouble. I've spent many nights camped out in the emergency hospital delivering puppies there in order to have a vet on hand. Whelping still scares me to death and I try to have someone calm on hand to help me through it. The things that have happend to you are pretty common according to other breeders I know. I'm now having a good year without many problems, but some years have been full of complications. I've often thought of quitting. You'll be OK.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by auntielaurie

I ask the oxytocin question not because I wanted to use it.. I thought the vet did it. I wanted to know if anyone has had much luck with it..in stead of a c-section to get contractions going stronger.

Most vets will try oxytocin first before doing a c-section. If the only problem is the female quit having contractions or is having weak contractions then oxytocin will help but if the puppy is to big or if a puppy is sideways in the birth canal then it would not help and it could hurt the female.

[Amazing Yorkies]

I never use the things purchased out of magazine. You really don't know why the female is having problems, so oxy or a form of it could make it worse. I found that there is nothing better than a good relationship with a great Yorkie Vet.