question.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by archonis

Hitler was a modifier, dont take it the wrong way :-) He tried to create the perfect world and kill off all the jews, there where less then 4,000 jews at the end. Another story.

The god part was based on altering the yorkie to create the perfect breed.

There where a few post saying i should not bc she does not meet standards and those state less the 7# well, depending on what club you are looking at. AKC, UKC etc.

My point was, pure is pure and if you are a good breeder trying to improve the breed them it should not matter if she is less then 7 pounds. I can start a club today and in 7 years you will see posts saying that it does not meet my club standards lol. That is basically what i was saying. Improving the breed does not mean to breed within the standards. Someone here said it the best and sorry for forgetting who said it but they said that it was a templet but many do not think so.

Its not a option bc we have moved from Texas and im not so sure it would be the same and im not to sure if Mollys father is still around. I would have to call them if i can get ahold of them again. All there info is on her paper work.

Forgot to add, if someone wants a show yorkie then they need to pay for one and someone who trys to create and breed withing those standerds on perpose then they are doing it for the money, my thoughts only..

First you have repeatedly mentioned UKC and AKC standards and seem to infer that there are a whole lot of differences in the two standards. And you repeatedly mention weight. The standard in both clubs is the SAME on weight 7 lbs- and at first blush they appear to have more in common with each other than differences.

Here is one of my points. So you personally don't like a weight cut off of 7 lbs, what about the person who thinks a curley coat is cute, so they ignore the part of the standard that calls for long straight silkey coa?. Now let say another person, happens to like a really large head with a long snout, so they don't like how the standard describes what the head should look like. Now understand they all have "purebred" dogs, but it would not be all that long, before a Yorkie won't look like a Yorkie anymore, if one deliberately breeds out coat/color, weight, head, shape etc for the Yorkshire Terrier.

I would suggest that prior going down the road further with deciding to breed your Yorkie you get the health tests done on her. And you make sure the "stud" has those self same tests done. In an earlier response I elaborated on what they were.

And temperament or personality is only 50% transferred from the mother. You still have the sire's temperament to consider along with the high likelihood that at least some of the pups might be closer to the sires' versus the bitchs' temperament.

You like to research? Then I suggest you take a real good browse through our sick and emergency forum here. Should be an eye-opener for the discerning mind.

[MyLilMimi]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

That doesn't mean you know everyone personally to know there there a breeder or not.

Like I Said that is really NONE of your business who I Do and Don't know personally on this YT Forum...


Now... I am asking you Nicely To "PLEASE" Stop Badgering Me!!!!

[archonis]

Your not getting the point and dont understand how DNA and trends work.
If your mother had twins then it dont mean your sons wife will have twins.

The yokie cant do a complet transfromation if you keep the bitch and stud pure however if you start breeding with unpure yorkies, thats another story.

Originally Posted by gemy

First you have repeatedly mentioned UKC and AKC standards and seem to infer that there are a whole lot of differences in the two standards. And you repeatedly mention weight. The standard in both clubs is the SAME on weight 7 lbs- and at first blush they appear to have more in common with each other than differences.

Here is one of my points. So you personally don't like a weight cut off of 7 lbs, what about the person who thinks a curley coat is cute, so they ignore the part of the standard that calls for long straight silkey coa?. Now let say another person, happens to like a really large head with a long snout, so they don't like how the standard describes what the head should look like. Now understand they all have "purebred" dogs, but it would not be all that long, before a Yorkie won't look like a Yorkie anymore, if one deliberately breeds out coat/color, weight, head, shape etc for the Yorkshire Terrier.

I would suggest that prior going down the road further with deciding to breed your Yorkie you get the health tests done on her. And you make sure the "stud" has those self same tests done. In an earlier response I elaborated on what they were.

And temperament or personality is only 50% transferred from the mother. You still have the sire's temperament to consider along with the high likelihood that at least some of the pups might be closer to the sires' versus the bitchs' temperament.

You like to research? Then I suggest you take a real good browse through our sick and emergency forum here. Should be an eye-opener for the discerning mind.

[chachi]

I love the bigger yorkies I have one and he really fits our outdoorsy lifestyle so there is a part of me that wishes there were breeders who bred for them. However I understand why supporters of the standard are so . I have been told many times by other yorkie owners that my chachi is a silky. He looks different than my other 7 1/2 lb yorkie. He is bigger and has a much longer muzzle. His body is rectangular and not square. Shouldnt there be a blue print for how the yorkie is supposed to look. Thats what the standard is and even though I wish larger yorkies were included in the standard I see why they cant be

[archonis]

A lot of ppl forget that there use to be two classes (large and small) and even in show's. Its said that by whom ever decided to change that and only have small yorkies.

Who is it for them to decide? now i feel we are losing the larger size yorkies. Thats why i dont COMPLETLY agree with them and breeders should not breed within them. A yorkie is a yorkie and a duck is a duck and if you love the yorkies so much then you should love all of them big or small and have no problems breeding both of them.

[chachi]

When were there two classes do you have documentation on that? What Ive always known about the history of the yorkie is they used to be larger and were bred down to fit the standard. I dont think anyone doesnt love larger yorkies they just dont believe breeders should be breeding for them. Just like in other breeds where people are breeding for extreme flat facedness or some other characteristic thats not in their standard

[gemy]

Originally Posted by archonis

Your not getting the point and dont understand how DNA and trends work.
If your mother had twins then it dont mean your sons wife will have twins.

The yokie cant do a complet transfromation if you keep the bitch and stud pure however if you start breeding with unpure yorkies, thats another story.

Believe me I get the point quite well, and I stand by what I say.

Again I recommend you do the appropriate health testing.

Good luck

[archonis]

Originally Posted by chachi

When were there two classes do you have documentation on that? What Ive always known about the history of the yorkie is they used to be larger and were bred down to fit the standard. I dont think anyone doesnt love larger yorkies they just dont believe breeders should be breeding for them. Just like in other breeds where people are breeding for extreme flat facedness or some other characteristic thats not in their standard

Per AKC's website:

"Early shows divided the classes by weight - under 5 pounds and 5 pounds and over. Size, however, soon settled down to an average of between 3 and 7 pounds, resulting in only one class being offered in later shows."

i just think its wrong to be altering a breed, yorkies needs to stay at there true form, all shapes and sizes regardless what users prefers.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by archonis

Per AKC's website:

"Early shows divided the classes by weight - under 5 pounds and 5 pounds and over. Size, however, soon settled down to an average of between 3 and 7 pounds, resulting in only one class being offered in later shows."

i just think its wrong to be altering a breed, yorkies needs to stay at there true form, all shapes and sizes regardless what users prefers.

I understand what your saying but dont you see a need for a standard and a maximum for weight. Do you really think we need 30 lb yorkies. Where does it end if there is no maximum weight. And understand we are just talking about weight as I said my larger yorkie looks alot different than my smaller one and and even my groomer says hes a silky and yes he is pure

[chachi]

By the way Nancy oh Nancy where are you if anyone knows and explains the need for the standard as well as it can be stated its you we need you on this thread

[gemy]

Originally Posted by archonis

Your not getting the point and dont understand how DNA and trends work.
If your mother had twins then it dont mean your sons wife will have twins.

The yokie cant do a complet transfromation if you keep the bitch and stud pure however if you start breeding with unpure yorkies, thats another story.

Hogwash.
Bitch and stud in your sceanrio is "already" pure but may not have very typey profiles to submit to the gene pool. And recessive genes will out over a 10 yr period if you deliberately select for those recessive genes. Oh I yes I do understand very well how DNA works including breeding intentionally or not recessive genes.

You have enough of the breeders just selecting for large size and over 10 yrs we shall have a YT on average of a larger size.

The point is the standard is present to protect, preserve, and hopefully one day improve the breed. The point of a purebred is to breed a consistent set of characteristics, including temperament, coat/colour, structure, size and health. So a Yorkie or a Beagle not only looks like one, but acts like one.

And btw I am a breeder

[TxVicki]

Originally Posted by MyLilMimi

Like I Said that is really NONE of your business who I Do and Don't know personally on this YT Forum...


Now... I am asking you Nicely To "PLEASE" Stop Badgering Me!!!!

????????????????????

[archonis]

I thought about writing a 30 page report with references on genetics but then I said that would be too much to read I may still do here in the near future.

3 to 10 ratio on 100,00 genes. We will leave it at that on ten years.

BTW I'm not a breeder I am a teacher for research and development on genetics.



[QUOTE=gemy;4163910]Hogwash.
Bitch and stud in your sceanrio is "already" pure but may not have very typey profiles to submit to the gene pool. And recessive genes will out over a 10 yr period if you deliberately select for those recessive genes. Oh I yes I do understand very well how DNA works including breeding intentionally or not recessive genes.

You have enough of the breeders just selecting for large size and over 10 yrs we shall have a YT on average of a larger size.

The point is the standard is present to protect, preserve, and hopefully one day improve the breed. The point of a purebred is to breed a consistent set of characteristics, including temperament, coat/colour, structure, size and health. So a Yorkie or a Beagle not only looks like one, but acts like one.

And btw I am a breeder[/QUOTE]

[nanahas3]

Originally Posted by gemy

First you have repeatedly mentioned UKC and AKC standards and seem to infer that there are a whole lot of differences in the two standards. And you repeatedly mention weight. The standard in both clubs is the SAME on weight 7 lbs- and at first blush they appear to have more in common with each other than differences.

Here is one of my points. So you personally don't like a weight cut off of 7 lbs, what about the person who thinks a curley coat is cute, so they ignore the part of the standard that calls for long straight silkey coa?. Now let say another person, happens to like a really large head with a long snout, so they don't like how the standard describes what the head should look like. Now understand they all have "purebred" dogs, but it would not be all that long, before a Yorkie won't look like a Yorkie anymore, if one deliberately breeds out coat/color, weight, head, shape etc for the Yorkshire Terrier.

I would suggest that prior going down the road further with deciding to breed your Yorkie you get the health tests done on her. And you make sure the "stud" has those self same tests done. In an earlier response I elaborated on what they were.

And temperament or personality is only 50% transferred from the mother. You still have the sire's temperament to consider along with the high likelihood that at least some of the pups might be closer to the sires' versus the bitchs' temperament.

You like to research? Then I suggest you take a real good browse through our sick and emergency forum here. Should be an eye-opener for the discerning mind.

Thanks Gemy I think you gave a great explanation.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chachi

By the way Nancy oh Nancy where are you if anyone knows and explains the need for the standard as well as it can be stated its you we need you on this thread

Ha ha, I've been trying to get Gemy to write a nice sticky about what standard is and why we need a standard. The word “purebred” is a manmade term, it really means very little, it just means that the dog has come from other dogs who were considered to be of this breed. Not all breeders are all that good or even careful, so just because you have an AKC registered dog, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the dog is pure without any mixture, but let’s just say for this discussion, it is. If you take two “purebred” Yorkies, or even 10 purebred yorkies and start breeding them together you can get dogs that have very little in common with the traditional Yorkies. Good breeders pick and choose attributes or physical characteristics that they want to pass on. Bad breeders breed their pets or whatever dogs they have. If you purposely pick out the dogs that were the worst examples of standard, droopy ears, curly coat, long body in relation to legs, etc. you can by selectively breeding the pups get a very different type of dog. I’m not saying that these dogs wouldn’t be cute or even beautiful, they just wouldn’t look like a Yorkie. When knowledgeable people can’t immediately identify the breed of dog, then it means breeders haven’t been breeding to any standard. No dog is perfect, but you try to breed the best examples of the breed that you can, why breed into the line, something that could be dangerous down the road and even a large size could prove dangerous, down the road. Dogs have one of the richest genotypes of any animal and that's why we can get such huge variation of looks between breeds, but we get these variations by choosing which animals to breed and which not to breed. A hundred years ago, it wasn’t so important that people were breeding willy-nilly, most dogs could find a home, many didn’t get good health care and didn’t live long, so that it was fairly easy to find a home for most dogs. Things have changed, it’s a global problem, and in this country we kill millions of dogs a year. In other countries where spay and neuter laws aren’t common, it’s fairly common to see dogs starving to death. While I believe it’s a free country and you can breed your pet if you want to, I think it’s a tragic mistake and it just means another dog will be put to death. The only reason for breeding is to preserve and improve the breed, there are too many pets available. While I love my babies to death, dogs are not human and they aren’t enriched by producing “children”.