We need to turn up the RESPECT volume in here

[GeorgiesMomma]

Originally Posted by MauiGirl

WOW~ Ann, this is absolutely the best post I have seen on YorkieTalk in a very long time.

You do have an amazing way of saying what needs to be said, and I can appreciate the thought (and frustration) that went into your post. I wish everybody would see this. I too am saddened by some awesome members who have walked away from YT over the 5 years I've been here due to drama.

Thanks for hanging in there yourself as a Moderator. Sometimes I wonder how you can do it, but you are very much appreciated.

Hugs to you and your pack!

Couldn't agree more!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Must be like walking on a highwire to try to help someone who seems to have a casual attitude about breeding and still try to educate with a delicate touch so it doesn't seem as if YorkieTalk is in anyway endorsing certain kinds of breeding practices by simply addressing the issue of the original post. It must take a long, long, long, long time to write a post like that when the emotions are yanking at you, not just for that dog/litter but for all the future little dogs that may be affected if nothing is said about why this should never happen again. Very often, if you do make the effort to educate without just the perfect words or tone, the OP gets defensive. The other members get defensive and attack you. Your job and those of members in the Sick/Injured Forum with a seemingly uncaring or heedless owner may be the hardest there are among YT members. I don't know how you humanly do it sans a halo and keep coming back. My hat is off to you.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

What you, Gail, Carmen and others can do to influence the final outcome of a bad situation can't be overestimated. You have huge opportunities to help and educate...and honestly? That's gotta come with some pressure, and a whole lot of frustration where you want to reach thru the computer screen and throttle a few necks . I think the breadth of your experience is a real benefit and gives you a lot of credibility that others would listen to.

If you could help maintain and promote calm voices and respectful delivery on these threads....it would go a long LONG way .

Sometimes when I'm really ticked off about something, I sometimes conjure up Lisaly - probably THE sweetest, most thoughtful, kindhearted, gigantic-hearted, humanist, smartest people here --- so when someone is triggering me and I'm then replying - I picture that I'm actually replying to Lisaly, and my entire headspace changes, my tone changes. Lisaly is an excellent weapon for positivity . Little does she know!

Thank you for the thanks .

Wow Ann. I have so much to say. First I give huge credos to Carmen and YorkieMom1(Judy) Carmen's patience should be exalted!. YorkieMom1 has huge, huge, experience with breeding Yorkies, as does Carmen with her Silkies.

Two such dedicated and in their own different ways compassionate breeders .... such a great asset to YT.

Lisaly as you know is my dear friend, and I can only say yes to all you have said about her.

Now let me thank you Ann for responding to my post more than respectfully. For doing all you do so very well for YT. And I can only imagine that this can be a trial at times.

As you well know I have been challenged at times. I have emailed you privately about this.

My beliefs about breeding are very simple. Breed to at least maintain the breed quality, breed for health and temperament, set your goals for breeding to the betterment of the breed!

I will continue to support this very basic of tenets.

But seriously Ann, we can respond calmly and say in this situation " I would do XY or Z" and then what? The OP finds fault, feels like they are denigrated?

I truly don't feel, that any-one should support accidental/indiscrimante, ill-informed breedings.j We don't have to bash, but surely we can say this situation is unfortunate, and maybe ill-advised.

We have had new members on here, that rescued a Yorkie lass in distress only to find out she is pregnant. The support has been great ( at least in my memory).

And quite frankly I don't think there should be a breeders section on here, as this is predominately a pet forum. Pets are just that Pets! Not to be bred.

Let the breed clubs reach out and support those would be breeders.

I think having a breeders forum, in the final analysis is just noit what YT should be about.

[nanahas3]

I may of been guilty of posting a little more harshly than usual to one thread here the other night, but I also saw this poster attack YorkieMom1 after she gave her very good and "polite" but to the point advice. I believe in being nice to all but think maybe sometimes before these threads get out of hand the new poster who is being so disrespectful of these dear breeders who take time out of their busy days to help us, should be reprimanded in a P.M. or something. Maybe they just don't know the rules, or maybe they don't know the breeders, or maybe its just the way they are, but they I feel use some very degrading words to the breeders here who try to help at times.

[carmen in nj]

LOL, believe me girl sometimes I have to re write and re write to the point of loosing track to be able to try to help and not sound of being judmental in my post. but one very good friend of mine that is also a breeder and a first responder thought me a very valuable lesson, "I don't have to agree or support a person to help them in a moment of need". and
I thought about it and realized that if helping is what I want to do, then judging is out, offer them the help at their time of need and then try to guide them and teach them, but nobody likes to be judge in a moment of need. I see both sides of the coin, if this is a pet forum, why the breeders section, but also understand the NEED for it, since I am not in charge and would never assume I can tell Admistration how to run their forum, is up to the person in charge to make that decision. but PLEASE if the breeder section is here to stay let's try to help the poor dogs. realized that by the time the person comes with a pregnant bitch is almost too late, and the best we can do is try to help the dog.
that way we can help and keep loving the dogs that everone says they do.
I know is hard but I would really feel awful if a dog dies because theowner was bashed and not helped.
I am a bit sick with the flu, so please take that into consideration if I don't make sense.

hugs,
Carmen in nj

[gemy]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

LOL, believe me girl sometimes I have to re write and re write to the point of loosing track to be able to try to help and not sound of being judmental in my post. but one very good friend of mine that is also a breeder and a first responder thought me a very valuable lesson, "I don't have to agree or support a person to help them in a moment of need". and
I thought about it and realized that if helping is what I want to do, then judging is out, offer them the help at their time of need and then try to guide them and teach them, but nobody likes to be judge in a moment of need. I see both sides of the coin, if this is a pet forum, why the breeders section, but also understand the NEED for it, since I am not in charge and would never assume I can tell Admistration how to run their forum, is up to the person in charge to make that decision. but PLEASE if the breeder section is here to stay let's try to help the poor dogs. realized that by the time the person comes with a pregnant bitch is almost too late, and the best we can do is try to help the dog.
that way we can help and keep loving the dogs that everone says they do.
I know is hard but I would really feel awful if a dog dies because theowner was bashed and not helped.
I am a bit sick with the flu, so please take that into consideration if I don't make sense.

hugs,
Carmen in nj

Carmen sick or not you speak honestly and with great love in your heart.

I suppose I want life simpler for me. This is a Pet Forum and at least if we don`t have the Breeders Forum, we can sidestep, not be aware of all these first time breeders.

And yes Carmen I am too involved with the health of the dogs. But and it a huge But in my mind and heart. How if I give this or that advice, will I be eventually when all is said and done, supporting the promotion of shall I say less than ideal breedings.

Do you really think that Sally who was breed to another Breed, or Sally who is so disparate from the standard, will l be neutered after this litter...

And btw most have never tested anything, nor have even considered researching the health of their dogs lineage.

For me I should always stay away from the breeders forum for a number of reasons, first is that I am not a Toy breeder. But mostly is that it pains to hear of so many nonchalant folks get involved with breeding.

And I know you have first value criteria for the dogs. But I have first value criteria for the breed, and what all this indiscriminate breeding does to our breed.

[carmen in nj]

and girl that girl is what makes us who we are, and the fact that we can agree to disagree to certain extend in a very loving and respectful way is what I am trying to show the ladies of YT.
hugs,

[Lil Sis]

all I can say is I have so much respect for Gemy, Judy and Carmen. I have pm them when I wanted so much to help a new poster, sometimes it is hard for me when the op then dissapears or is rude. There is a difference in not listening to advice and throwing the advice back in your face...When someone treats them poorly I have to sit on my hands and walk away.

ok... I am done

Ann... you do a wonderful job!

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by AngelFae

I think the whole point of this IS that people are coming here for emergency questions and they DO get treated like crap and DON'T feel as though they are getting help, only judged rudely, and they don't feel welcome to stay. They come here and SEE that there are wonderful, knowledgable Yorkie owners and breeders who CAN help them but then they get torn apart for asking what they came to ask. If the situation is past the point of change all we can do is help the outcome and educate so that the situation doesn't happen again.
This thread was started as a general reminder, NOT about one specific other thread (which is what it has become.) As to that thread, however, the decision has been made by the owner to continue the pregnancy and she is still here and she is still trying to gain knowledge and help to try for the best possible outcome. What help does it do to continue to berate her and her decision? She'll leave and not get the help and education she needs. How does that help the bitch and the pups? It doesn't. She understands that the majority here does not agree with her decision but she is still here. I feel that it is time to move forward and work on helping her through this current situation and to prevent reoccurance.
I'm still new here, you have no reason to listen to anything I have to say, but as an outsider looking in, this is what I've been seeing.

I am not talking about on specific thread. We have people come here about sick Yorkies. I try very hard to answer their questions or if I don't know I try to find out to help them or direct them to someone that can help. I am on YT a lot. I have noticed over and over a lot of the OPs do not come back.

[nanahas3]

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

all I can say is I have so much respect for Gemy, Judy and Carmen. I have pm them when I wanted so much to help a new poster, sometimes it is hard for me when the op then dissapears or is rude. There is a difference in not listening to advice and throwing the advice back in your face...When someone treats them poorly I have to sit on my hands and walk away.

ok... I am done

Ann... you do a wonderful job!

Lol me too but I guess i need to put something heavier on my hands at those times. I honestly hate seeing people disrespect them and it gets my dander up.

[lisaly]

I know that when I come to YT I am going to feel such a range of emotions. My heart warms to the love and compassion I see here on a daily basis. I see a community who bands together to help each other and those in need. Sometimes when we feel so passionately about things, we let our deep feelings get in the way of doing what I've know is right--treating others with respect. We see people here also who don't have the regard that they should have for our precious pups who count on us to love and protect them. Oh how that hurts. The sick/injured and breeder's forum are often so difficult to bear. I am filled with such gratitude for Ann, Gemy, Judy, and Carmen who devote countless hours to help others. You bring so much heart to this forum and please know that you do great things here. I am saddened when I see people not treating you with the respect that you so deserve. My intellectual mind knows that we need to treat people with respect in order to reach them, but I also understand that we must continue to educate and strongly advocate for what is right for our pups. Each of you have such strong convictions, such passion, and compassion. You stand for what is right for the health and emotional well-breeding of our pups. Thank you so very much Ann, Gail, Judy, and Carmen. I am sorry that it hurts so much for you to be here at times. Please know you make a huge difference, and you have earned my deep respect and admiration.

[dawn27]

Originally Posted by Marhcarter

Ok, at the risk of catching h-ll from the breeders, I just want to make one point. I think that many of the people who ask questions about their pregnant dogs are just that; people who have dogs that have become pregnant through either carelessness of the owner or ignorance. I don't think these people consider themselves to be breeders and many of them have no intention of getting into this situation again. Yes, they may project their human morals upon the bitch or may just be ignorant of the possible complications until it is too late, but either way, they need information to get the mother and pups through this as safely as possible, so they can then take preventative measures to avoid this situation in the future.People have had dogs that have had pups for hundreds of years without the knowledge that these people have available to them, and I don't feel like any of these accidental breeders have come to this site to brag about the status of their dogs. I feel like they have come to this site to ask for help. We need to provide the knowledge needed, whether it is personal knowledge or just letting them know when to seek professional help. I think giving them estimates of the potential financial burden is very appropriate for planning purposes. I don't think berating them for being stupid and letting their dog get knocked up is appropriate at all. We are all here for the animals, but IMO, the animals are getting overlooked in all the drama.
Ok, I'm done.

Originally Posted by AngelFae

I think the whole point of this IS that people are coming here for emergency questions and they DO get treated like crap and DON'T feel as though they are getting help, only judged rudely, and they don't feel welcome to stay. They come here and SEE that there are wonderful, knowledgable Yorkie owners and breeders who CAN help them but then they get torn apart for asking what they came to ask. If the situation is past the point of change all we can do is help the outcome and educate so that the situation doesn't happen again.
This thread was started as a general reminder, NOT about one specific other thread (which is what it has become.) As to that thread, however, the decision has been made by the owner to continue the pregnancy and she is still here and she is still trying to gain knowledge and help to try for the best possible outcome. What help does it do to continue to berate her and her decision? She'll leave and not get the help and education she needs. How does that help the bitch and the pups? It doesn't. She understands that the majority here does not agree with her decision but she is still here. I feel that it is time to move forward and work on helping her through this current situation and to prevent reoccurance.
I'm still new here, you have no reason to listen to anything I have to say, but as an outsider looking in, this is what I've been seeing.

2 Great Post !!

There truely are many many members who want to and are willing to help without judgment.

In my opinion when people tend to avoid the questions at hand and instead redirect a thread to a subject such as their own beliefs that they are doing more harm than good. I just don't understand why some people post such negativity and tend to concentrate on their own beliefs instead of offering useful information. Is it really that hard to offer Information that HELPs someone who comes to us seeking answers. Do you not understand that in most cases there is a Yorkie in need of our help as well.

I've seen in too many cases where the thread has gotten heated or disrespectful just because someone is in disbelief or aw of the circumstances. Than the conversation take a whole other direction and in most situation the OP is more confused and frustrated than they were when they got here. And they walk away feeling like coming here was a mistake and than the YT as a community has to deal with the aftermath and the damaged reputation. Seriously we need to come together as a community of loving caring people and unless asked, keep our opinions to ourselves and Just Help. Help in any way we can without judging and if you cant do so with restraint than leave it to the next person who can.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Must be like walking on a highwire to try to help someone who seems to have a casual attitude about breeding and still try to educate with a delicate touch so it doesn't seem as if YorkieTalk is in anyway endorsing certain kinds of breeding practices by simply addressing the issue of the original post. It must take a long, long, long, long time to write a post like that when the emotions are yanking at you, not just for that dog/litter but for all the future little dogs that may be affected if nothing is said about why this should never happen again. Very often, if you do make the effort to educate without just the perfect words or tone, the OP gets defensive. The other members get defensive and attack you. Your job and those of members in the Sick/Injured Forum with a seemingly uncaring or heedless owner may be the hardest there are among YT members. I don't know how you humanly do it sans a halo and keep coming back. My hat is off to you.

Articulated very well....thank you for having the acuity to envision the internal conflict some of us have, and then being able to express it so clearly. What often times is simply a sincere attempt to educate a poster, completely unspools the thread, especially if the poster is not looking for education on the subject, just wanting specific questions answered. The wonderful thing about this forum is that as long as adults maintain a sense of decorum, anyone can post their reply or their feelings on the subject, whatever they may be, whether the op approves of the message or not, again as long as the responses are respectful and are within the acceptable guidlines of YT. It is up to the poster to read and take away from responses, what they are interested in. Many of them do that with civility, while others, unfortunately, are offended and express their frustration and displeasure with YT. While "offending" responses may not help or impress a point appreciated by that particular poster, over time, there are multitudes of people, quietly "lurking" and reading and learning from any and all answers given.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Articulated very well....thank you for having the acuity to envision the internal conflict some of us have, and then being able to express it so clearly. What often times is simply a sincere attempt to educate a poster, completely unspools the thread, especially if the poster is not looking for education on the subject, just wanting specific questions answered. The wonderful thing about this forum is that as long as adults maintain a sense of decorum, anyone can post their reply or their feelings on the subject, whatever they may be, whether the op approves of the message or not, again as long as the responses are respectful and are within the acceptable guidlines of YT. It is up to the poster to read and take away from responses, what they are interested in. Many of them do that with civility, while others, unfortunately, are offended and express their frustration and displeasure with YT. While "offending" responses may not help or impress a point appreciated by that particular poster, over time, there are multitudes of people, quietly "lurking" and reading and learning from any and all answers given.

Thanks for keeping at it on all fronts - information, advice and education with some good old-fashioned common sense thrown in.