Thanks, they keep me busy!!

.....

I don't quite think people understand the other thing I am trying to say. Showing does not automatically make anyone reputable. There are breeders out there showing their dogs themselves or have handlers do it that are not reputable. It takes showing AND what you actually do with your dogs, ie who do you sell to, how do you do your breeding, who do you deal with and what do they do, what is your purpose to breed a litter. That is just off the top of my head.

Well said manu mill the mark. The only pup mill case to result in jail time in Texas involved the incaseration of a thought to be reputable AKC breeder who showed several breeds for over 20a years she and her husband abused neglected operated pip milla and inhumanely killed hundreds of dogs and pups ahow and breeding quality dogs the coowners of many if the dogs were able to claim them 400to were taken in an ASPCA bust and the end of it over 600the dogs were given to coowners or reacue oe the ASPCA in 3the states. Perhaps ppl know who I'm talking about she mainly bred and handled poodles a cockers. People were shocked a breeder handler with years of a great show record championing many dogs could be so cruel to them behind the scenes

recessive gene
 

IMO,,,,no one should be attempting to breed if they DO NOT UNDERSTAND the recessive gene and why it happens. I bred 4 generations of black labs for AKC field trials....had some outstanding puppies that went on and made national derby list numerous times... and I am amazed at backyard breeders that breed yellows to yellows and chocolates to chocolates or yellows.....a real no no if you know what you are doing. yellow and chocolate is recessive and both parents can be black and if both possess the recessive yellow or chocolate gene they can produce yellow or choc puppies along with blacks. Now that is where you want your yellows to come from....preferably both parents being black with the recessive gene....no different than what is happening with the "blue born" Yorkies.,....top breeders in lab breed never breed yellow to yellow or choc to choc as it degrades the breed.....the same will happen with people trying to breed the "blue borns"......just neuter both parents as it is a losing proposition to keep this going. Have raised and shown Dobermans and I see sick breeders trying to perpetuate the Blues in the Doberman breed and they have a ton of health problems, bad coats etc.....I get riled on this subject....it is not that hard to understand if you do the research.

This is the reason why I am glad I joined yorkietalk and not afraid to ask questions, because you learn so much and can further research incidents and issues and get a better understanding so that one can not further contribute to the problems and issues that are continiously going on today in any breed of dog or animal.

you have a long way to go before you start doing anything along the lines of breeding and showing just based on what I've read.
I recommend you get on the breeder section of the site or PM some of the top breeders registered on here.
go to AKC site and see if there is a list of AKC registered breeders in your area that you can contact and that would be willing to mentor you

Yes i know now that i am not knowledgable enough. My husband and I are very disturbed now, noticing that some detailed information is revealed. Not sure if that is legal, and concerned if it is safe to still be a member here.

don't think you have anything to worry about this is a pretty tightly run ship, where would you feel you have cause for concern

This is one of the reasons why I have stayed on YT. I wanted to be able to try to give as much information about the Yorkie breed, legitimate registries, and how reputable breeders work what they do and don't do and why. There are other show breeders on this board that are here for the same reason. I am glad they are.
I hope the OP is indeed serious about being a reputable show breeder. BUT that will be up to her.
Reputable show breeders are very very hard to fool if the intent of anyone approaching them for open/show dogs has not really changed for the reason for breeding as we have seen so many try to appear interested in doing things different. Too many reputable breeders have been burned over the years so are triple cautious.
Actually, most reputable show breeders with winning dogs, good lines etc, have so many other long time reputable show breeders looking for a show dog from them, they really don't want to risk a problem. I know of show breeders that have neutered/spayed a nice show potential rather than taking the risk of someone unknown or already been breeding/selling whatever for a while, who says they want to show.
Remember even the reputable show breeder has to be able to sleep nights.

My focus is on Blue Ivy now. I wish having a blue born yorkie pup on know one. I really feel that i have given birth to a child with a disability for life. want to make her as comfortable as possible. Oh by the way, noticing her fur, it is more dule than on the top of her head. my husband gives his dog a vitamin called duvet. i read it is good for any dog or cat. Should i put blue ivy, on a vitamin once she gets older. wanting to put the others as well, but I'm further researching first. any suggestions would be helpful.

Lorraine, you and the other reputable/ethical breeders on YT and elsewhere are so dedicated and I am just in awe of you all! I can't imagine how time consuming, expensive and how much you all have had to sacrifice to keep these beautiful pups with wonderful lines etc. (sorry I don't know the correct verbage). It amazes me everytime I read what you and the others write and how very obvious it is that it is a true heartfelt passion. Thank You for what you do!

sorry nuvet.

It certainly is not at all difficult to understand, and it's fun for those of us that love genetics, but anyone who DOES NOT, WILL NOT, or CANNOT understand and continues to breed, IS, at a minimum, either ignorantly (if they never knew) or stupidly (if they knew and ignored and/or did not pursue their education) "asking for trouble"...and they may "get lucky" for a time but they WILL eventually find that TROUBLE (double recessives, such as blue born Yorkies) will happen because the genetic programming exists.

A certain Westminister Winner (collie) and his non-show-able deaf and blind double merle (a doubled recessive gene) daddy comes to mind...and the breeders supposedly KNEW what they were doing and purposely bred for the double merle:

Westminster Rewards Cruelty


It is truly great that you joined YT, but this is a "forum" where members share information and experiences, help each other, and learn from each other, as I understand YT and forums in general. Yes, there is a lot that you can learn in a forum...YT included, of course, since there are some highly knowledgeable members, breeders, etc., here...and I do not even include myself in that statement. :p But, and with no offense intended :), YT should NOT be your educational basis for your breeding program.

I created three (3) simple Punnett Squares to demonstrate the genetic permutations that are possible with recessive carriers and double recessives using "G" to represent "Any Dominant Gene" and "g" to represent "Any Recessive Gene" in my charts...to show how your dilute carrier, Sasha, and the dilute carrier sire of her last litter, created the double recessive dilute "blue born" puppy, "Blue Ivy" from a visual standpoint...but if you really want to understand, you should not only get breeder/vet/etc. mentors willing to apprentice you and read/research in books, etc...you should also take some educational courses in genetics, animal husbandry, etc., as well, since you started your breeding program WITHOUT knowledge of genetic possibilities.

I say this only as a suggestion and only because...now that you have been breeding without proper knowledge, you may now need to 'unlearn' possible bad practices that no mentor will KNOW you possess that could harm your future "professional breeder" reputation, your lines, your breeding stock, and your pups...so they may not cover that information with you and you may/will not know about it to ask. A mentor who 'knows' you have already been breeding may 'assume' you have the basic knowledge required and skip over it. Educational courses automatically 'assume' you know nothing at the start of the course and teach you anyway, even if you already do have all/most/some of the knowledge. "We do not know what we do not know." :p

Again, I would like to re-iterate...I am NOT a breeder, not a vet, not a geneticist, not anything anywhere near like that. :p I have had pregnant females (canine and feline) welp under my care, but at no time have I set out to breed animals professionally. I am also not a medical professional and am not offering professional advice of any sort...only personal opinion and suggestions. My only involvement in your situation is due to my personal genetics interest, apptitude, research, and past experiences...not ambition or profession. :D

I hope you will not find my comments insulting or offending in any way. I do wish you the best of luck in your endeavor as you separate your past breeding habits while acquiring advanced breeding knowledge, and the best of luck in caring for Blue Ivy.

Others can certainly correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot see how a "vitamin" would correct genetic damage.

If I was to give advice along these lines I would say focus on doing no additional harm to Blue Ivy. Keep her food sources clean...no chemicals, etc., organic and/or from natural sources. Provide her with an appropriate nutritional structure for her species, and with an adapted diet plan as required to give her the best options at health. I would not depend on a pill to nourish her...I would want all vitamin, mineral, and nutritional supplementation to come to her through the healthiest diet possible because to create supplements, often only PART of an essential-to-health component is included in the supplement. Sometimes, the SOURCE from which the supplement component is made/synthesized is incorrect. Sometimes the form/compound is not absorbable/usable. Manufacturing processes can be contaminated...lots of things can go wrong with stuff in a pill or liquid supplement.

In a healthy pup, their bodies may simply eliminate the unusable parts. The question is more likely, will Blue Ivy be able to?

Good luck!

Thank the Heavens that you all are here:)!!!! I'm sure you've saved countless dogs' lives that you don't even know about because a lot of folks read here without ever posting. Doing a lot of reading here is what convinced me that breeding was NOT for me! You all really educated me on what goes into a GOOD breeding program. I, like many others, ignorantly thought that the dogs did all the work and the puppies would make me money:laugh: Of course, I wanted to do things properly as I love this breed and alas have neither the resources nor the stomach for it. MUCH respect to all the reputable breeders, you bring joy to anyone lucky enough to own one of your dogs and spend all your time and money on it. Kudos to you ALL:kiss:

Suncera, I am glad to see that you are wanting to do things the right way. I hope you're able to find a mentor to start learning from. You know any reputable breeder is going to check you out thoroughly so it would be in your best interest to tell them your whole story and how you've decided to do things the reputable and proper way. Good luck to you:)

Thanks, all my dogs are on Eukanuva, have tried others that they don't do so well on, I've also invested in shampoos and conditioners, mink sheen, yorkisheen, and please if I'm not using the right shampoo and conditioners please tell me. I have only breed three times as I have stated in my last post, I'm ashamed to say mentors knew nothing of my breedings, I know I should not say but, I feel blue ivy is a result to my ignorance of my mistakes, I ask for forgiveness and again will care for her for what ever is needing to be done. I know that I am not the only one that has had a blue born and I know that their are probably others that hide their blue borns knowing that their is a genetic defect. I one have nothing to hide, if I'm wrong and doing something wrong I'm gonna say and admit I'm wrong, but if I'm doing something right and know it right I'm gonna stand up for it.

:confused:

I'm confused, you feel you are doing something illegal?

I don't think that's what you meant and I hope it's not.

Being a member here is safe in the same way being a member of any other forum is, yes your site was shown and you were "outed" but realy anyone with any motivation could research that so it has nothing specifically to do with Yorkie Talk and legalities.

Once you are selling something and advertising it online you are open to public review, yes there are laws re guarding breeding etc-personally if I were in your shoes I'd stay to show how you truly are and how you are making efforts to learn and improve.

Honestly-I'm sorry if it's offensive but I'll be nothing less than totally honest with you-when people leave Yorkie Talk in my opinion it's because they had something to hide, didn't like the advice they received in an open forum or they didn't like the most comprehensive Yorkie forum in the world-it's all red flag to me.

I have legal issues around Yorkie Talk, the breeder I got my Elvis from is threatening to sue me because of my posts about the details in adopting Elvis as well my posts about his medical and behavioral issues having come from her-I don't care she's going to do what she's going to do and I'm going to keep telling my side of the situation-period.

I also posted a year or so ago about looking in the future for another pup and wanting to screen breeders and build a better relationship of a period of a few years before getting another Yorkie (buy the breeder not the dog this time) what a mess! I was recommended a breeder I was told the only way to contact them was their FB page so I "friended" them and started some general contact in regards to possibly getting a pup from her, WOW it went crazy down hill from there, they used my personal information off my page to post about me online (ridiculous they looked up everyone with my last name in my area and though someone else's business was mine and posted hideous things about their business) they posted my personal contact information all over the net I had about 20 weirdos sending me crazy threatening messages, calling my home between 1 amaand 5 am emailing Elvis' breeder and seller to start drama, and accusing me of things that had nothing to do with me (I guess they thought I was part of a rescue they had issues with). It was completely crazy in the end the "owner" emailed me it was all her bipolar sister and teenager and apologized but really if I didn't leave over all that (seriously they sent me text messages that they were coming to my house, attacking my kids online, and giving out my personal contact information making posts about me having kids and desirable dogs in my home-I should have taken the issue further but was pregnant overdue and just wanted them to stop harassing me).

I'm still here, I realize YT isn't to blame-crazy immoral people with no self control and serious dysfunction are-the internet just gives them a sense of hiding and anonymity thus the illusion of free reign.

So really you just have a thread showing you are trying to learn more and improve-I see nothing but mutual beneficial gain by you remaining at Yorkie Talk.

Feel free to go to my profile, check my stats and read over my posting thread history for more information.

Vitamins are always good they can improve over all health aiding in better results in a health issue they are not a cure but I'm sure Kendra gave you great treatment options for your Blue Ivy since she is going through all this with Mack.

I will say this in my experience using holistic overall health remedies and dietary aids really does make a difference.

Have you considered model prey, raw or barf diets?

We love Stella and Chewy's patties for raw meats here.

I'm not a fan of Eukenuba personally.

I'm not a big fan of Eukanuba either... It a 2 or 3 star food I believe (don't quote me on that one), but if you read the ingredients, its not all that great! I have my guys on Taste of the Wild...they have loved it from day 1. There are several really good foods out there that are all natural and grain free. There's some really good threads on here about food if you do a search.

Lunas your right, I have along ways if I want to do the right thing by the breed. I do plan on staying, as well as informed my website designer to cancel my page until its decided if I'm ready or not. Do not intend on leaving YT, for along with other resources I feel is very helpful to me. I'm not a quiter and believe that you can succeed with the right knowledge and help. Haven't tried raw diets, my husband gives that to his dogs, chicken, eggs, etc. but didn't and never thought that it would be good for my little babies.

Have you heard about the TOTW recalls?

I'm lucky it hasn't been recalled in CA yet, neither have any other of their brands in CA.

I'm phasing in full model prey raw and barf due to the recalls it's just to scary for me since i have special needs dogs too and a food poising issue could potentially lead to death.

No! Whats the deal??

Just read it...Luckily Texas isn't listed either! Bout had a heart attack!

sorry to hijack...where is the list of TOTW recalls? I'm in Ontario, Canada and my cats are onTOTW...my yorkies are on Blue Buffalo, but I'm planning on switching them to Fromm...thanks for the heads up

Diamond adds cat food to the growing list of recalled pet foods because of 'potiental' salmonella infantis contamination

Thanks Lynzy...guess I'll be switching the cats' food as well...better safe than sorry!

I swear by TOTW, we love it, however I also always error on the side of caution so...

i hear you concretegirl...me too

Suncera this is an extremely long thread:) If you want to learn there are many threads I've posted on some of the information/knowledge that you will need as a basis for breeding Yorkies.
Look up my nicname and see threads I have started. Oh heck I'll try to link some threads "usually from the breeders forum" from newbie breeders who have asked many similar questions.

There is also a web based learning tool that I posted about; this one is for learning about genetics. Here is the link: Genetics of Icelandic Sheepdogs Carol Beuchat

It is a good starting place.

Join your local dog club. If you have a Yorkshire Terrier club locally that is great, if not a toybreed club, if not then just a general club. Much and I mean much learning can happen.

You need (if you don't already have) to train your "eye" for a dog. Movement structure and temperament.
Your husband breeds American Pitbull? Unfortunately their correct movement is not the same as the YT. Look at other terrier breeds.

Order a copy of the illustrated standard from the YTCA it is only about $5 or so; it is hopelessly dated, but at this point in time it is what they have.

Visit their website frequently. See what seminars are coming up where, and plan on attending some; ditto your local dog club.

Take some time do a websearch and start reviewing all the videos out there for National Specialties. Watch the dogs move. Make your choices then see what the judges picked.

Know all the health problems a Yorkie can be troubled with. A good exercise is to spend 30 minutes a day in the Sick and INjured forum.

Learn some temperament tests, and start to observe the temperament tests that you husband does on his breed..

Go to Dog shows. Not just conformation but obedience. Get to see Yorkies competing not only in the conformation ring but the obedience, agility and rally arenas.

All this takes time, dedication, preserverance and money. But if this is your passion then go for it!

Thanks Gemy, I am re grouping and willing to do the right thing, for yes this is my passion, thank you so much for all of the information. This will to go into my black bible as I call it for references that can always come back to.