OMG, i'm really understanding your chart, thank you so much!

It is really sad breeders are passing on that gene.

As far as finding a good quality sire and dam goe to shows and get familiar with breeders that are breeding for health and good representatives of the breed and dont settle for less than quality

I've been going to the AKC website to see when and where shows are being held. But again don't know how far I will get there being that i'm not a good political person, and I have been told by veterinarians as well as a couple of breeders some that have limited registrations on their dogs that it is very hard getting into starting a good program rather its to show or to breed your yorkshire terriers.

I am really sorry to have to tell you this, but the gene will carry unknown until it is discovered, and beyond if breeding is allowed to continue after it is discovered, which is why, now that it has been discovered in both Sasha and the stud, neither should be bred again. It is a situation that could 'spider' out like broken glass or ice on a pond...and may already have. If Sasha and the stud were the only carriers in their respective litters, then only their previous breedings together and with other dams/sires would be suspect...but there is likely no way to know for certain if that is the case.

Obviously, the attached is not something you would ever want to do in Yorkies, but the first chart represents the genetic odds of what would happen were a carrier to be mated with a blue born. As the chart shows, especially in litters of 1 or 2, even KNOWING a blue born was deliberately being bred to a carrier or if it was being bred to an unknown carrier, the breeding might still not throw an actual blue born pup, but would most definitely throw carriers because every pup gets 1 gene from each parent.

The second chart shows that breeding a dominant (no recessives for this gene) to a blue born would produce pups that are all carriers of the gene.

Sasha's blue born pup is proof positive that both Sasha and the sire are carriers as blue born occurs with 2 recessive genes since delivery of a blue born pup is 100% accurate. Since Sasha is a carrier, either her dam or her sire or both are also carriers...and so on up the lines they come from. Since Sasha has siblings, any of them could be carriers but there may be no way to know for certain unless one produces a blue born...in which case the situation is the same as with Sasha and the sire of this litter...both would be proved positively carriers.

Since Sasha's dam and sire were bred together one more time before the sire was altered, there will possibly also be carriers from that litter. If the dam is still in a breeding program, if she is a carrier, she could still be passing the recessive gene along.

You're welcome...the Punnett Squares (charts) do show it very clearly...the "red" and "green" emphasis were mine in an effort to make it as obvious as possible. Understanding the 'concept' of how all the pieces fit together can be confusing. :D

Of course, you also understand that just because you have a litter of four pups does not mean you'll get one of each configuration in any of the charts I posted...riiiight...it just means you 'could'...there are additional 'odds and probabilities' that make it even more complicated what you will actually get..plus other factors. :p

I understand, I have called and text the buyers of Sasha's litter and some say that they will research as well, while others say they don't intend on breeding. As far as the stud owner she does know now and says she will research as well. Sasha's sire is fixed but I don't think her dam is, which i have let her know as well. I will be getting Blue Ivy fixed. And hopefully next year sometimes I can try again with a least two healthy good quality yorkies, so that I to can help better the breed and help others to understand the importants of owning and breeding. Because I so want to give it a try, what ever I do in life i was taught and I teach my kids that you give it your 110 % best and if you don't know something you ask and never give up and never let nothing stand in your way of your successes or being successful. I really like coming to this forum because theirs a lot of good information that you can find and very good people the tells you the truth and their opinion on things rather it hurts or not. But not knowing not only hurts you but mainly the precious little animals no matter what shape or form they come in. I hope to receive more knowledge and understanding here and will definitely will come her first if I have a question or concern that needs to be answered.

I would advise you to study pedigrees and learn a lot about genetics. Go to the shows and study the breeders and what lines they are breeding and who is winning. Get signed up for all the breed and show publications. Not all show/breeders are of the highest caliber. The more you read in the breed publications and the show publications the more you will glean from the info. The more people you meet and talk with the more you will realize what goes on in that world. It takes a while to get to know who is who in the dog world. You have a better chance of getting good stock from an honest winning breeder who is willing to teach you what they know. Run away from someone who is eager to sell you breeding stock first thing without strings or contracts. A person who has put years of careful breeding into their line is going to want to protect that line and are not going to sell good stock (or their name) to someone that has not proven that they are really interested in the highest and the best breeding methods and lines. Even the very best have their set backs but those who have integrity will suffer the loss and continue to do things ethically.

You say you are a stay at home mom and I know that breeding dogs is sometimes an attractive kind of side line to home moms but if you are going to breed good stock you are going to have to show them and that takes, time, travel and money. If you have a husband that supports you in your endeavor it may work. If he doesn't mind you being gone many weekends during the show season and he will take the kids for you while you are gone. You will need to learn how very detailed the grooming process is for a long haired show dog. It is a lot of work all the time. All this is why people advise you to get a mentor. There is so much to learn. Just finding the right person to learn from in a place not too far from you can be a task in it's self.

On the other hand your dog is healthy as your vet says and you could breed her again but it would be very unethical. The dog should be spayed. Even one puppy that may suffer ill effects from the breeding is too many. If you want to be a back yard breeder you will find there are many other kinds of problems you can run up against. Just putting dogs together without knowledge of the genetic background of their ancestors is a very risky thing to do. Putting unknown lines together can bring out all kinds of recessive genes that you had no idea about. There are many people on YT that have lived the nightmare of buying a puppy that had an unknown genetic problem and then had to suffer the consequences. That is why so many want to stop backyard breeding and puppy mills. There are just so many animals and people who have suffered because of people breeding without having the knowledge they need.
I hope you will give the whole matter a large amount of study. If you can find someone in your area that is an ethical show/breeder and will let you help them as you learn then you are one step up. It is a lot of work but anything that is worth doing well always is.

I have spoken with the OP on the phone.... I have told her all my knowledge that I have learned the past year and a half with Mack. She seems to be on the right track. She has contacted the other 4 litter mates parents to be and informed them that the pups need to be spayed/neutered. She has also visited with her vet about spaying Sasha (the mother of these pups). She went further and contacted Sashas breeder.

Sad thing is that the Sire of this litter is not hers. She did contact his owner and he has recently also fathered 2 other litters. I explained to her that ALL these pups now carry the "blue" gene. The sires owner apparently doesnt care so on it goes.

I do believe the OP has learned a very valuable lesson and is trying desperately to help correct the problem she has created. She does now understand why this happened and how SHE can now avoid it.

I am also happy to report that although she was thinking about cross breeding her yorkie with her maltese and poodle (I believe), she is now re-thinking the idea. She now understands our thoughts and concerns with her actions.

Nicole, If you ever need anything or any advice or just a shoulder to cry on concerning Blue Ivy, you can always contact me!! I wish her the world of health and happiness!!!!

Yes my husband supports me totally and I also have been successfully operating my own tax business for 5 years now, this year I have finally staffed my office without having to do the work myself, I also have invested in all of the equipment that I need and grooming classes for the health, grooming and care for my yorkies. My groomer for the past 3 years have been teaching and coaching me on the techniques, health, etc. in becoming a knowledgable groomer, but I must say its only for my dogs. Very interesting and still learning. My husband has his own trucking company in which his side passion is showing and breeding the american pit bull that some people wrongly mistaken as a bad dog. Our yorkies, poodle, and maltese gets along with them quite well, actually the funniest thing to see is Bandit our two in a half pound yorkie not wanna to play sometimes and when he growls and tells the bullies to back off, they run like a a great dane has gotten after them. Our dogs has the most pleasant temperament, but can't speak for all. But yes he see's that I really have a love and interest in the yorkshire terrier and is willing to support what ever i set my mind to. He also travels with his bullies to different shows and events. My parents and sister also helps us a lot for when we are gone, if the yorkies doesn't go with us, then my mom moves into our house for the weekends to doggy sit and watch the kids even though they are 11 and 15. i am so blessed to have such a loving family. I have a friend/classmate that also shows his cocker spaniels and we have been talking with him and he is willing to introduce us to the show ring, as far as stacking and handling and he also agreed that if i am not that good that he would consider showing and handling my dogs for me, for a small fee, as he say, lol. Me and my husband had to laugh.

Thank you sooooooo much Kendra for talking with me, I am looking into some insurance for my yorkies more so for Blue Ivy. I want to so bad just hold her but I know she needs to still be in mommies care until she tells me its time to start their weaning. So what ever she may need in the future will be covered. I am so glad Mac is doing well, he is so handsome. I am so glad that I did not give up and not continue searching for help because i wouldn't have found you. I know I still have a lot to learn but I am willing to do what ever it takes to be successful. I am now trying to rehome my Maltese, and will have to get my poodle fixed because my kids just won't part from her, or should I say my husband, when I told him I might be rehoming her, lol, under that truck driver is a pure softy.

you are amazing and are learning such a great deal!! No need to re-home.....just have them spayed and love them eternally!!! Mrs Blue Ivy will not be harmed by your love and affection... Show her you are there and always will be.. A tender hug will do her good (as it did Mack!!). Again, you are in my prayers and I know you will do the right thing!

FYI: Breeders are NOT eligible for pet insurance on their dogs. Uless things have changed, that is what I learned when I wanted to purchase insurance for my dogs.

Wow, I've just decided to go and look at all of the previous post on this topic and again I say wow, I have to thank you guys for being concerned about people, Byb's, etc. that intentially breed for the wrong reasons, but you targeting the wrong person. First of all I dont have to explain myself to no one and those that know me, and have been to our house, and that have talked to me know that I am not the person that the posts say that I am. I'm still learning and I still come her for valuable information. So for those of you that are watch my web site, you tube, Facebook. I am glad you are keeping me on the right path. And would love for you to friend me on Facebook so that you can get to know that evil person that you think I am---NOT!

There are three insurance companies that I have spoken with but Blue Ivy has to be 8 weeks before I can put her in any of them. If you guys know of any, all suggestions will be appreciated. I played with her a little while last night, their little licks are so gentle, and I love the little puppy breath as they yarn. My new puppy owners, ask me about insurance as well so I only can give them information that I gather. For those of you that took the time to give me good information and helping me along the way, I thank you soooo much! And again for those of you that have chopped my head off, lol, I thank you as well for double slapping me in the face waking me up before I contribute any further to the cruelty that is continuously going on with this wonderful breed of dog, again I have to ask for forgiveness for the mistakes I've made so far, and I'm paying for them I feel with my Blue Ivy, and for the record I in NO WAY will put my Sasha nor Blue Ivy thru any harm, and I incouriage you guys that are willing to give me advise and their opinions to follow me on Facebook, you tube, twitter, I also have a dog Facebook under puppiesandpaws or pets rule, you are more than welcome to come. Plus I am starting a blog on my Blue Ivy so I am gathering as much of information that I can so that her journey can be followed and I too, can one day educate the pet owners, breeders of the blue born puppy it will be posted on my site as well. Again if anyone that follows me have any concerns are see that I am doing something wrong, for I am not perfect, please call me as you have seen my number is on my website, again thank you Kendra for calling and sharing your experience with me..

A bit late in response but let me say this...unless you are in Canada, CKC registration simy means BYB with a poor quality line. AKC is all the counts or matters. Any breeder should always sell all pups pn Limited Registration ONLY! If a full registraion is an option they'd retain the pup for a bit to see how it finishes. Usually until they are around a year old.

Selling pups at the minimum of age of 12 week-absolete minimum-anyways isnt mature enough to determine definate breeding or show potential.

IMHO, however I doubt anyone here really disagrees with that.

As far as the CKC, AKC, UKC, are any other registry, I'm still researching that and getting mixed opinions on them, to much political matters in that, I guest each of its own, Something happened way before I got an interest in researching the difference, but to each it's on. As far as letting puppies go to their new homes at ages before 12 weeks, I've found out as well that it's not good for the puppy being that he/she is still bonding with siblings, in which in the past I have too purchased puppies that were of the age of 6 weeks, luckily I had younger dogs that he had to bound with. But from now I do understand and have witnessed the difference. As far as me telling someone else about the AKC, CKC differences, I am not one to judge, I don't have that right. I do know that their are some top breeders that have received puppies from other top breeders that have registered their dog in both registries and this has been going on long before me and probably will continue. I am still trying to figure out why and what's the beef between all of the different registry and why couldn't there be just one? So that I can pass along to my clients the difference and importance between them all. I actually thought that the UKC was the top of them all, like I say I'm still researching and learning.

Shouldn't these questions be asked in the breeding section? I'm not really here to educate or be educated about breeding, can this thread be moved?:)

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I think AKC is best best because it is the only one that doesnt register mixes just pure bred so if you buy an AKC dog you can be assured its not a mix

That's what AKC, board said and still waiting on UKC's call back, and yes this would be another discussing somewhere else, but since it was brought up, I wanted to read others thoughts and opinions that's all.

I think the Canadian Kennel clubis the same but not absolutely certain. The are not the same as the CKC here in the US they are continental kennel club and they do register mixes

What do you mean you’re not one to judge? We have to judge things all the time! If your referring to the biblical quote, we aren't supposed to judge someone’s relationship with God we will be held accountable to the same standards, but you can and should judge other things. There are NO top breeders who register with anything except the AKC in this country, unless by "top" you mean high volume breeders, and yes millers register with CKC, not to be confused with the reputable Canadian Kennel Club. The Continental Kennel Club took those initials just to mislead people, doesn’t that tell you something? The alternative registries popped up because the AKC has thrown out many millers, and if a commercial breeder is breaking state laws the AKC can suspend them, so the millers just made their own registries. Also, the AKC demands accurate record keeping, and DNA proof if you are producing a certain number of dogs, again, many breeders cannot provide this, so they go for the registry that that takes the breeders “word” for it. Here’s some information on registries: http://moosewood.tripod.com/registries.html: Whenever anyone says another organization, is political, but theirs is free from all “politics”, it usually means, that there’s has no rules or standards and anyone can join no matter how unethical they are.

And your right, since it was brought up and you are CHANGING everything about your breeding program etc., why are you still advertising Tiny Teacup Yorkies? Why are you still linked with other well known Puppy Mill Breeders? Suncera, I don't see the sincerity yet and yes you have every right to be here, but my fear is that you are using us to further your byb business. When the actions match the words....

Many people have given you great advice and KendraE has gone out of her way, so when does the transformation really begin? Come on over to the right side...:)

Thanks for that information Nancy, will be going there to read and learn. Lynzy if you must know and I feel you should, yes I am re grouping because I want to learn and be knowledgable. My website designer is still working on my site and making correction. I do now understand that their is no such thing as teacup, mini, micro or what so ever, so for you and others that are watching and following, I'm not perfect and again learning valuable lessons. A wise old lady once told me that if you don't ask you won't know and if you don't make mistakes or mishaps you won't learn, she also told me that no matter what you do you can't please everyone and don't die trying. As far as being judgemental I can only speak for what I know and learned. You ladies/gents have years of experiance, knowledge and know more than what I can amagine and I'm thankful for that.

Great answers Suncera - Good luck

Thanks for the link Nancy, did not know of all the different registries as well as what they stood for, We do have UKC, CKC and AKC registered dogs.

The first thing I would do is stop breeding your UKC and CKC dogs, you can't even be sure that they are purebred, and you could never show them anyway. You also cannot sell the dogs on limited registration, and that's so important in order to stop pet owners from breeding.

You mean full registration right. I thought limited is when you cant register pups if the dog is bred

Our CKC dogs which is Sasha and now Blue Ivy her blue born pup are going to be spayed, as well as our poodle that my husband and children won't part from, the Maltese I have still looking to rehome her and if not she will be spayed as well. Our UKC American Bullies, are my husbands show dogs that he enters in the show ring, they are also registered with ABKC (American Bully Kennel Club) in order for them to carry on their Champion pedigrees that they carry. That's his passion and they have been doing so well. At first I thought those dogs were bad dogs, but they have the most calm temperment and very gentle with my smaller dogs. I will not be breeding any time soon until I have further understanding and attend shows and when my mentors say that I should give it a go again is when I will. Until then I will gain as much knowledge as I can to better my understanding, plus right now my concerns are on my Blue Ivy that I worry about everyday, I have ordered Sasha's Sire 6 year pedigree and her Dams 6 year pedigree as well as the puppies so that I can pass that on to my new puppy owners. I know that I can't and won't be able to contact all but the ones that I have, I hope that they pass on the information about my blue baby!

I find nothing political about Continental Kennel Club vs. AKC...

when an owner can buy a dog on AKC limited registration and without breeder's release of any proof of anything register CKC it shows the quality of the CKC,

when CKC is the preferred register of pup mills and anyone who is BANNED from AKC, it shows their quality,

when mixed breeds can be registered it shows their quality,

when any owner can self register a dog who has never been papered with nothing more than application and fees due it shows their quality

when the international community rejects CKC it shows their quality

when they call themselves international and the #1 American registry (quite falsely) it shows they failed in comparison and made their own grouping as to not compete

when they fail to handle disputes, use DNA results to change registrations, when they do all of the above without regard for any facts, moral etc it shows what the issue truly is

not political but economical.

I only beleive in the AKC, I understand many also prefer the IBC for Biewers but please, when a parti can be later registered Biewer when both parents were traditional (carriers) and calling Biewers a separate breed, I don't really beleive in them either-just my opinion.

UKC and CKC-as in Canadian are great right but we are in American AKC is all we need-they are open to parti's chocolates, goldens and partis in those being registered AKC. So they are inclusive with DNA and linage proof they are internationally respected because they earned the respect in their quality, professionalism, and leading example for improving all breeds.

The only "political" issues I personally have is with the YTCA excluding partis from shows...which one day will hopefully change.

The AKC has to accept the YTCA's standards for show, so to me the issues never has been or will be with the AKC.

Off my pedistool sorry I went a bit OT and very opinionated, but that's my 2 cents and another dime. I'm glad you are staying, earning and rethinking your previous actions.

You can't change the past, you can own it and learn, improve and make amends, as well all should-I try everyday in every-way.

Continental Kennel Club is not respected by any breed clubs, nor does their lineage pedigrees mean squat in reality, I can produce the linage for pedigree of any of my dogs through their site, my AKC dogs from my home pc- I'm not even a breeder nor am I required to send them ANY proof of ANYTHING!- and send them money and they will create it and make it appear official when it's all a load of you know what so I wouldn't even wipe my bottom with CKC paperwork...you're better off saving your money instead of giving it them to prolong their ill financial gain in falsehoods, making a mockery of registries.