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Old 12-05-2005, 11:58 AM   #1
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This is about my neighbors dog Ray Ray - She had puppies this morning. Ray Ray is a Terrier Mix and about the size of a Cocker Spaniel....A huge dog broke into their yard and got her pregnant - but I don't think they knew it till this morning when they saw the puppies.

They came and got me and I tried to help them as best I could ....but let me tell you - I have a new respect for Breeders. Ray Ray wouldn't let us near her babies. She was VERY impressive on how protective she was. From what I saw.... there were only 2 puppies - till we moved her.

She was laying on a blanket so we made them a nice bed & she was having NONE of it - and after alot of coaxing - (and ham) we finally get her moved......I was devestated to find a tiny dead baby under her. So in Total -She had 3.

I gave them what advise I could, and my vets number....I was so upset finding this baby that I burying him/her between our houses ...I said a little prayer and came home... but feel so bad......They did leave to get some supplies for Ray Ray and the new babies..... but how can I make sure the surviving puppies are ok ?

They promised me they would get them all to the vet and I'm going to make sure they do. my question is - Could Ray Ray maybe rolled on top of this baby and can this happen again ? What else can I do to help ?

Thank you in advance - they have never ever had puppies...I warned them about Vet Care for Ray Ray & family.....they DO love her and I know will take care of her..... but I know how big the dog was that got her pregnant - is there something I should be doing ? I don't want anything to happen to this little girl - she's really a sweet dog....

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Old 12-05-2005, 12:37 PM   #2
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Sounds like quite a pickle. I have heard of dogs rolling over on the pups and accidentally killing them. Of course, I have also heard of dog killing all the pups on purpose too... I really don't know what advice to give you. I think the ball is in your neighbor's court. They will have to make sure mom and pups are looked after properly. I would just encourage them to get them all to the vet ASAP, especially considering the situation with the daddy dog being so much bigger. How big are the pups in proportion to the mom? I would just be afraid that her giving birth to bigger pups may have damaged her on the inside somehow...torn uterus? Internal bleeding?
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Old 12-05-2005, 12:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by BamaFan121s
Sounds like quite a pickle. I have heard of dogs rolling over on the pups and accidentally killing them. Of course, I have also heard of dog killing all the pups on purpose too... I really don't know what advice to give you. I think the ball is in your neighbor's court. They will have to make sure mom and pups are looked after properly. I would just encourage them to get them all to the vet ASAP, especially considering the situation with the daddy dog being so much bigger. How big are the pups in proportion to the mom? I would just be afraid that her giving birth to bigger pups may have damaged her on the inside somehow...torn uterus? Internal bleeding?
Thank you - yes - I also told them about this ...and after Robbies very sad experience with her mommy - I told them Ray Ray needed a vet check to asap...my neighbors were worried because they did think dogs always have lots of puppies and there was only 3.

The puppies were in good porportion to the mom in my 'humble' opinion - very small...I was expecting these huge puppies when I found out she had babies today.

Problem is she's being so protective of her babies ..they're a little worried about touching her right now - it was VERY hard to get her into her little whelping box we made her.....and of course I can't get the little lost baby off my mind.

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Old 12-05-2005, 12:55 PM   #4
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Gee, what an experience. If I were there this is what I would do.
My first concern is to see if the pups are eating. Can you tell if they have fat bellies and are they quite not whining or whimpering a lot? If the pups are whimpering and whining alot I would try to get those pups out of there and get a good look at them, are they dehydrated pull the skin up on the nape of the neck, release it. A hydrated pups's skin should slide back into position and will be like a wiggly worm, a dehydrated pup's skin will stay 'standing' and appear more listless. If they appear dehydrated rush them to the vet immediately. Not much time to waste..

My mom used to raise Rottweilers. She had a new mom sit on a puppy before. It does happen with larger dogs. I would definitely concentrate on keeping the remaining pups going, by getting a closer look at each one.

Are the owners of Ray Ray not able to get close?

Keep us posted.

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Old 12-05-2005, 01:01 PM   #5
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Hmm...assuming the two only tied once, even twice, it would make sense that the number of pups was low. Do they know when it could have happened? Maybe the pups were born too early, which would account for their small size. I really don't know I can see where the mom and pups would need to be checked, but I wouldn't exactly want to stick my hand in and come back with a nub either!?! I really don't have any advice on dealing with aggressive dogs, no matter how good the reason for their actions, at least not when the dog is your own. (We actually had one put to sleep due to his trying to bite...well, more like due to what was causing him to act that way, but that is a different story all together...)
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:04 PM   #6
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I'm going back over there - those puppies did not make ONE peep but were eating - I need to go see because they were VERY quiet - That's probably a good sign ....but I'll check their hydration if Ray will let me - I know how to do that...if not ...I can show them and tell them what you all said.

Thank you for the responses !! I'm reading them all very carefully.....You guys are SO great for information and very fast

and yes Irene - they are not able to get close - she showed me her nice shiny teeth when I first got there then settled down - she's a sweet girl but she has a WAY bigger mouth than my little yorkies and I was a bit leery too of losin a finger...Her owners are too - I could tell by how they were hesitating

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Old 12-05-2005, 01:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red98vett
Oh wow - I'm going back over there - those puppies did not make ONE peep but were eating - tell me - are they sqeaking in the first HOURS of birth ? I need to go see because they were VERY quiet - I'll check their hydration if Ray will let me - I know how to do that

Thank you for the responses !! I'm reading them all very carefully.....You guys are SO great for information and very fast
Well most importantly they need to eat right after birth to get the colostrum. Then every 2 hrs after birth they should be eating. Being quite is usually a good thing as long as the pups are eating and are not off on their own away from mom. Ususally a pup that 's not thriving early on will whimper almost constantly and not nurse. It's a very sad sight. Oh, and if they are sleeping twitching is also a good sign. Their whole body will twitch occasionally.

Be very careful is Ray is being protective. Don't want anyone getting hurt. You just need to put your hands on those pups to get a better 'feel' for how they are doing.

Good luck.
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:11 PM   #8
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Sorry~ I have no advise for you, But what a day You've had! You are such the helper, I'm sure all your neighborhood knows... Call V~ She'll help!
I hope everything goes ok with the pups and Ray Ray. ( Is this the pregnancy from the time when you posted about the BIG dog getting in and taking advantage of her??)
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red98vett
I'm going back over there - those puppies did not make ONE peep but were eating - I need to go see because they were VERY quiet - That's probably a good sign ....but I'll check their hydration if Ray will let me - I know how to do that...if not ...I can show them and tell them what you all said.

Thank you for the responses !! I'm reading them all very carefully.....You guys are SO great for information and very fast

and yes Irene - they are not able to get close - she showed me her nice shiny teeth when I first got there then settled down - she's a sweet girl but she has a WAY bigger mouth than my little yorkies and I was a bit leery too of losin a finger...Her owners are too - I could tell by how they were hesitating

Villette,

For not being a breeder you sure do pay attention and take good notes when reading some of the discussions. Way to go!!!

Villette the Puppy whisperer!!! or should we call you Villette the Puppy Nurse on Call..lololol
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:31 PM   #10
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LOL you guys are so funny

I had a hard time at first because of the little dead puppy ...all I could think about was how to get it and not upset Ray Ray - but after reading your responses I went to check them again and the babies were eating & on their way to the vet ...I'm actually impressed with my neighbors - I can tell they really care and will do right by these babies -

I told them what you all said and you have no idea how much help these replies have been - Christina, my neighbor, is paying attention and really happy to have some advise from breeders - (of course I bragged on you guys) so you all really helped a novice in her new world of puppies.

and Rhonda - yes - this is from that BIG dog that 'got' Ray that awful day that I posted about....
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:35 PM   #11
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Good news!! Praying all well stay well!!

Hugs,
Irene
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:40 PM   #12
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v- just make sure they are keeping them warm, and a whelp box for larger dogs that has sides built into it to keep the mom from smothering pups is essential to some larger breed breeders...although i understand they may not want to do this, they are expensive to buy or you must build them yourself. my advice is to tell t hem to have these pups in the house with them so they can constantly check to see if she has one under her, or behind her. when they get behind mom is when they will smother. you did a wonderful thing by trying to help this girl and your neighbors....you are a wonderful, caring, compassionate person.
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:51 PM   #13
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Robbie - after your sorrowful week - thank you for that advice - I am worried about the babies being smothered and will tell them what you said - That's really really good to know and a worry as one was found dead but all in all - Things ARE going well

I was a little worried about my neighbors at first - When Ray Ray was attacked by that dog originally - I went to check on her later that day & her dad laughed about it - it wasn't funny at all !......

Now today - the women are in control and even my husband is impressed... they've gone to the vet and are taking any advise offered. His words were -"I didn't think they'd do it" lol ....They have my number and know they can call anytime - I feel like an Auntie !!

So thanks.... and yes Irene - I have a big mouth in the breeder section on ONE subject but the rest of it - I read and learn

so it's thanks to you guys that I was able to sound even semi intelligent today !!
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Old 12-05-2005, 01:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red98vett
Robbie - after your sorrowful week - thank you for that advice - I am worried about the babies being smothered and will tell them what you said - That's really really good to know and a worry as one was found dead but all in all - Things ARE going well

I was a little worried about my neighbors at first - When Ray Ray was attacked by that dog originally - I went to check on her later that day & her dad laughed about it - it wasn't funny at all !......

Now today - the women are in control and even my husband is impressed... they've gone to the vet and are taking any advise offered. His words were -"I didn't think they'd do it" lol ....They have my number and know they can call anytime - I feel like an Auntie !!

So thanks.... and yes Irene - I have a big mouth in the breeder section on ONE subject but the rest of it - I read and learn

so it's thanks to you guys that I was able to sound even semi intelligent today !!

V-
I'm sorry I hope I didn't make it sound like you have a big mouth. I love the fact you are passionate about breeding and educating others. You are more educated than most breeders I know.

Sorry if you misunderstood me
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
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V-
I'm sorry I hope I didn't make it sound like you have a big mouth. I love the fact you are passionate about breeding and educating others. You are more educated than most breeders I know.

Sorry if you misunderstood me
LOL You know me better than that !!! I loved what you said and considered it a big compliment coming from YOU !!! I added the big mouth in there cause on certain subjects...mine tends to grow

You and other breeders here are the reason we all learn ....so really - it's thanks to YOU that I could help today - and this is why I love the breeders who post here - you all have such a wealth of experience.....
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