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Old 12-12-2005, 07:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whispersmom2
The dogs in my avatar are Biewers except for one..I agree that the Biewers worked to standardize their dogs and I, too, prefer to call them Biewers. Isn't there one registry that someone mentioned that registers them as Biewer Yorkshire Terriers or something? I remember thinking it sounded confusing at the time..
I didn't realize you had the other pics flipping in your Avatar. I always remember the one with the red bow which is your Parti I was refering to him. I do see a difference between the other 2 and your Parti.

Well I think Mr Biewer made this more confusing by NOT dropping Yorkshire Terrier from the name. Are you asking about a German or US registry?
It does get 'hairy' doesn't it?..lolol
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whispersmom2
The dogs in my avatar are Biewers except for one..I agree that the Biewers worked to standardize their dogs and I, too, prefer to call them Biewers. Isn't there one registry that someone mentioned that registers them as Biewer Yorkshire Terriers or something? I remember thinking it sounded confusing at the time..
To add, a true Biewer would be traced back to the Fru Fru of Friedheck and Darling of Friedheck as stated in the history. If you breed to a Parti because they happen to share the same gene, you still are 'tainting' that bloodline of origin.

Last edited by YorkieRini; 12-12-2005 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:11 AM   #18
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A little over a year ago, we noticed a small area in the center of Toto's nose had turned pink! I, of course, hit "blind panic" mode! One of our vets said it is called "snow nose" and is common. It's the loss of pigmentation and usually happens when the animal isn't exposed to sunlight, which Toto isn't very often. It's no problem unless it appears on other normally black areas, ie, the lips or around the eyes. She said that in those cases, it's a possible indication of underlying health problems. She said that some of her dogs get it and many times it goes away in the summer months when there is more exposure to the sun. I always "touch up" her pictures!
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettyeanne
A little over a year ago, we noticed a small area in the center of Toto's nose had turned pink! I, of course, hit "blind panic" mode! One of our vets said it is called "snow nose" and is common. It's the loss of pigmentation and usually happens when the animal isn't exposed to sunlight, which Toto isn't very often. It's no problem unless it appears on other normally black areas, ie, the lips or around the eyes. She said that in those cases, it's a possible indication of underlying health problems. She said that some of her dogs get it and many times it goes away in the summer months when there is more exposure to the sun. I always "touch up" her pictures!

Mercy! Toto is just darling! Thanks for the insight on the 'nosey' question. I wonder if certain ones are more suseptiable than others..hmmm.
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:54 AM   #20
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Since I have puppies that are Biewer and others that are a combo of parti and Biewers, I have the chance to watch both grow and they look the same. In every Biewer litter there are many patterns and yet they are called Biewers..
Any help appreciated...[/QUOTE]
To: Stellaryorkies@aol.com
cc: Irene_J_Berlovan@keybank.com
Subject: RE: Biewer talk

And here is lies the problem and nemesis of every responsible pure bred dog breeder. Are those who will deviate from the to gain what “they want”, not what the breed standard calls for.
Certainly it sounds like the “betterment of the breed” is not being taken into consideration.
From my understanding,unless you are breeding true Biewer to true Biewer, what you are getting is MIXED breeds that cannot be registered, period. [in a Registry of any merrit anyway]
just because a yorkie has 3 colors it is not make it a Biewer. Or because it's brown is it rare, badly bred anomoly yes, rare no.

We are all capable of putting two dogs together and come up with a cute MUTT, but a mutt by any other name is still a mutt. It’s the hard work, study, blood sweat and tears, and mostly the patience that goes hand in hand with PROPER BREEDING that counts. Nothing in the proper breeding ethic comes easily or fast. And badly bred color anomolies should not be bred.

Nothing will kill the process of a new breed faster than deviation from a standard, nor will it gain any influence with responsible breeders, it will simply be shunned unless it is taken very seriously.
Sorry if this seems like flaming, not my intention.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:03 PM   #21
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First, welcome to YT. You are so right--anyone can put dogs together and make puppies. And, there are others who are responsible who work to develop a new breed or line.
We will always have differing opinions about what that means and we can always express them. That is what is great about a forum....Right?
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Old 12-13-2005, 01:30 PM   #22
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We will always have differing opinions about what that means and we can always express them. That is what is great about a forum....Right?[/QUOTE].........................................

Thanks for the welcome, and yes forums are great for expressing opinion.

However, in my way of thinking, you may differ opinions of type and style but when it comes to standard, you mustn't differ by adding this or that. That is what Standards are for, to follow, to make the breed better, to achieve excellence within a standard.
It is not like adding several different spices to a sauce. Breeding is more of a science.
I guess the fact that people breed tri color yorkies together and call them Biewers is why most Responsible purebred Yorkshire Terrier breeders cringe, because it perverts the PB YT.
The same PB Biewer people cringe at the thought of tri/tri breedings. It preverts the Biewer standard. hope you can make sence of this!!
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Old 12-13-2005, 01:51 PM   #23
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Another thing that comes to mind is Poodles come in a Parti color. Breeding a Parti Poodle to a Parti Yorkie is considered a mixed breed. So should the breeding Parti Yorkies to Biewers. Sorry I am EXTREMLY passionate about Biewers and am very saddened to see them bred when the history and the standard are not followed. I am just trying to educate that there is a difference between a True Biewer and Partis.
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:15 PM   #24
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As I read the standards and info about Biewers, they have always been called BiewerYorkshire Terriers. Standard color Yorkies are Yorkshire Terriers. Purebred parti-marked Yorkies are called Yorkshire Terriers. Therefore, the reasoning would be that a Yorkshire Terrier by any color, if purebred! is a Yorkshire Terrier and cannot be considered a MIXED breed as the example you used of Yorkie/Poodle mixes. That example is like comparing apples and oranges, IMO..
What we are discussing, I think, is NOT genes but simply bloodlines. Any other opinions out there??
And, I am somewhat confused about the post from Catalan..was this supposed to be a post on YT or a letter to Irene? Just wondering about this one since it was number 1 or 2 post..
I will take the time to re-read the history of the development of the Biewer by the Biewers. I was under the impression that their breed stock was strictly Yorkshire Terriers in-bred or line-bred to assure that the recessive piebald gene would influence the colors of black, white and tan. Is that not correct?
Okay, now I will start my search to find out what breed Fru Fru and Darling of Friedhech were...and how I can research to make sure that my 3 Biewers are indeed as they are registered or if I and many others have been duped by German breeders who breed and sell their dogs as Biewers. If they cannot relate them back to FruFru and Darling, then they surely cannot be true Biewers as the standards say.
I do not plan to call my puppies Biewers. There is no reason to do that since they are going to pet homes and will not be bred..When I was considering buying Harvey, there was no doubt he was/is Biewer. He is the brother to Harmony and Hope, I believe.
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Old 12-13-2005, 04:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whispersmom2
As I read the standards and info about Biewers, they have always been called BiewerYorkshire Terriers. Standard color Yorkies are Yorkshire Terriers. Purebred parti-marked Yorkies are called Yorkshire Terriers. Therefore, the reasoning would be that a Yorkshire Terrier by any color, if purebred! is a Yorkshire Terrier and cannot be considered a MIXED breed as the example you used of Yorkie/Poodle mixes. That example is like comparing apples and oranges, IMO..
What we are discussing, I think, is NOT genes but simply bloodlines. Any other opinions out there??
And, I am somewhat confused about the post from Catalan..was this supposed to be a post on YT or a letter to Irene? Just wondering about this one since it was number 1 or 2 post..
I will take the time to re-read the history of the development of the Biewer by the Biewers. I was under the impression that their breed stock was strictly Yorkshire Terriers in-bred or line-bred to assure that the recessive piebald gene would influence the colors of black, white and tan. Is that not correct?
Okay, now I will start my search to find out what breed Fru Fru and Darling of Friedhech were...and how I can research to make sure that my 3 Biewers are indeed as they are registered or if I and many others have been duped by German breeders who breed and sell their dogs as Biewers. If they cannot relate them back to FruFru and Darling, then they surely cannot be true Biewers as the standards say.
I do not plan to call my puppies Biewers. There is no reason to do that since they are going to pet homes and will not be bred..When I was considering buying Harvey, there was no doubt he was/is Biewer. He is the brother to Harmony and Hope, I believe.
I will respectfully agree to disagree

But I did want to add a few more things

They are called Biewer Yorkshire Terriers. The intent to create a standard which describes markings to be specified is to create a separate breed. Just because the originated from B/G Yorkie parents doesn't mean they are still Yorkies. They have a standard now and the true Biewers should produce what's called in the standard for the most part. Of course you have those that breed mismarked Biewers which reverses all the sweat blood and tears Mr BIewer put into developing this breed.
For example, Yorkies were created from mixing several breeds right? So back then the argument could have been well the are 'Mutts'. Well guess what. They are now a breed of their own. Why? Because they have a standard and when bred responsibly they will produce the standard right? Samething with the Biewers. It may be splitting hairs but the fact remains, they are separate. I just want to emphasize this for those that read this and get confused. What you decide to do with your foundation is your business really it is. But when it comes to explaining the Biewer I feel I need to state the facts that I have been taught and that I follow with the club I belong to.

Another interesting thing is some people have Biewers that still have the original Fru Fru and Darling ancestors in the 3 or 4th gen pedigree. Those lines should not be taken lightly. You still have some very close breeding. I've had some inexperienced person brag that they had the original Friedrick lines. They are in the wrong hands and it wouldn't surprise me to see some major hereditary defects come from carelessly breeding. When that happends then everyones gonna say "oh Biewers have Liver Shunt (or whatever defect) running rampant".
Another thing, is Brokers. The majority of the Biewers in the US that are for breeding I bet were bought through brokers. In fact, I will put money on it. Which works against the betterment of the BIewer breed. The broker didn't compare pedigrees to make sure the sire and dams will be compatiable and not too closely related. I have seen Biewers sold for breeding from a broker that was almost all white with a patch around it's eye. The person was told by the broker you want soem with more whtie like that...guess what..No you don't! Nausiates me!!! They don't have clue because all they see is money. All this carelessness (not saying you Rini) is how we will end up with a handful of True Biewers that are good represenations of the breed.

I hope I am not too confusing in my post. I am just typing what comes to mind.

Stepping off my soapbox to smoke a cigarette and have a shot! j/k

Irene
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettyeanne
A little over a year ago, we noticed a small area in the center of Toto's nose had turned pink! I, of course, hit "blind panic" mode! One of our vets said it is called "snow nose" and is common. It's the loss of pigmentation and usually happens when the animal isn't exposed to sunlight, which Toto isn't very often. It's no problem unless it appears on other normally black areas, ie, the lips or around the eyes. She said that in those cases, it's a possible indication of underlying health problems. She said that some of her dogs get it and many times it goes away in the summer months when there is more exposure to the sun. I always "touch up" her pictures!
My girl gets snow nose.
She was a dark button nose till the sun is setting early and now she paling up for the winter. She had it last winter and come spring it was dark again.

Joy
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:04 PM   #27
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This is a quote from Irene in which she says that she hopes I do not intend on calling the pups "Biewers" I was gonna let this pass but I re-read it and I don't like the inference that I am dishonest and would even consider calling them Biewers. I have been so open about their parentage that most persons would already know that I am honest and that statement would not have been posted..I spoke with my hubby about it to see how he read that statement and he agreed with me and that gave me even more reason to respond to this..

"With all do respect Rini, I feel you are mixing breeds by breeding Biewer to Parties and hope you do not intend on calling the pups Biewers. "
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:45 AM   #28
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whispermom i think your babies are so cute, id love one and it wouldnt bother me if it was partie or full biewer id love it anyway, and coming from you id no it was well breed and cared for so if you want to breed the two go ahead and do so we no you wouldnt lie and say they were full biewers.
i wish we had biewers or parties over here in the uk but iv never seen 1.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whispersmom2
This is a quote from Irene in which she says that she hopes I do not intend on calling the pups "Biewers" I was gonna let this pass but I re-read it and I don't like the inference that I am dishonest and would even consider calling them Biewers. I have been so open about their parentage that most persons would already know that I am honest and that statement would not have been posted..I spoke with my hubby about it to see how he read that statement and he agreed with me and that gave me even more reason to respond to this..

"With all do respect Rini, I feel you are mixing breeds by breeding Biewer to Parties and hope you do not intend on calling the pups Biewers. "
I am not saying you were dishonest. It seemed to me that you changed your mind is all. I had asked you in the past if you planned on breeding your Biewers and Parti together. You told me no, you had the 'oops' litter but your intentions were to keep the breeds separate. Reading your posts on this thread, you clearly stated you will breed them together. I see you changed your mind. OK...My statement you quoted above was to see if you also changed your mind about what you were going to call them. Just because you change your mind doesn't mean you are dishonest. So you replied to my statement. That cleared up the question I had in my mind. We may not agree but I am not one to play those kinds of games Rini. If it came across differently to you then I apologize. Implying that you are dishonest was not my intent for posting that statement. You have always been honest when I would ask questions in the past. Just wanting to see if you changed your mind on what you plan on calling the pups produced from mixing Partis with Biewers.

Hope this clear the misunderstanding up.

Irene
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:36 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whispersmom2
This is a quote from Irene in which she says that she hopes I do not intend on calling the pups "Biewers" I was gonna let this pass but I re-read it and I don't like the inference that I am dishonest and would even consider calling them Biewers. I have been so open about their parentage that most persons would already know that I am honest and that statement would not have been posted..I spoke with my hubby about it to see how he read that statement and he agreed with me and that gave me even more reason to respond to this..

"With all do respect Rini, I feel you are mixing breeds by breeding Biewer to Parties and hope you do not intend on calling the pups Biewers. "
Rini - (Whispersmom) ......I LOVE the name you gave your babies....BIEWTIES .... and they ARE... real beauties !
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