How do I convince someone not to breed their dog?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by Breeze

I may get slack for this but ....

People who want to breed their pets irresponsibly will find any excuse to do it.

They do not care about bettering the breed, they will breed mixes, dogs out of standard............. because they have so many excuses and idiots backing them up. " "Temperment is more important than standard, breeding mixes is ok (all breeds were mixes once). " "My dog is papered so he/she must be healthy, great lines, great quality". "No matter what scam registry they are registered with, or they register them with the scam registries to make more money for their papered pups. "Its ok to breed tinies, Its MY dog so I can do what I want!!! (risk it's life but who cares it's MY dog?".

I would never risk the lives of my pets by breeding them and I have said that time and again. It is a risk of a dog's life every time it is bred and every reputable breeder knows that and consciously makes that choice when they breed. I do however believe in everyone's right to breed their animal if they choose as long as they do it responsibly.

I think I must have more faith in people to do the right thing because the people I have met and the people I know are good people who love and care about animals like the majority of the members on this forum. Sometimes I wonder where the negative posts come from and where the people who post them find such despicable people who don't love these beautiful dogs and have such hatred in their hearts and can be so cruel.

I don't discriminate against mixed breed dogs and find nothing wrong with breeding them if it is, again, done responsibly, and I abhor that the standard requires the barbaric custom of tail docking, I do believe that temperament is more important than outward appearance and I think the AKC is a scam registry if there ever was one because it is simply a money grubbing business that condones puppymills because of the money they get from all the puppies they register for them. It is disgraceful. Here is a link that proves exactly what I am saying. http://anniehughes.com/roar.htm

If these views make me an idiot in your eyes, then so be it......

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by PlatinumYorkies

That is a bit extreme, don't you think.

In what way? I know you don't have a dog now, but if you did and something happened that required you to place it in someone else's care temporarily and they decided to have it altered without your consent would you not be outraged?

This is what Stewie's Mom and Jesscruz are promoting without even knowing all of the facts. What they are suggesting is illegal at best and immoral and criminal to my way of thinking.

We have heard NOTHING from the dog's owner.........I am not disputing the foster mom's story but I would not make such drastic suggestions without hearing from both parties.

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

In what way? I know you don't have a dog now, but if you did and something happened that required you to place it in someone else's care temporarily and they decided to have it altered without your consent would you not be outraged?

This is what Stewie's Mom and Jesscruz are promoting without even knowing all of the facts. What they are suggesting is illegal at best and immoral and criminal to my way of thinking.

We have heard NOTHING from the dog's owner.........I am not disputing the foster mom's story but I would not make such drastic suggestions without hearing from both parties.

Kim, what you fail to realize that this is a FORUM, not A COURT ROOM. Opinion's, belief's and thought's are presented here. The 2 you named above were stating their opinion, which other's like myself agreed firmly with. I've noticed where some who opinion's are ignored try to shove their's down other's throat's. Oh please do me a favor, because I don't have a Yorkie yet, don't Assume you know what I have now, or what I have owned previously. My mom has a Chi, and for 8 year's of my life we had a Peke, until he was killed. So, I am smarter than you think when it comes to animal's...I know greed when I see it..thank you for caring.

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I would never risk the lives of my pets by breeding them and I have said that time and again. It is a risk of a dog's life every time it is bred and every reputable breeder knows that and consciously makes that choice when they breed. I do however believe in everyone's right to breed their animal if they choose as long as they do it responsibly.

I think I must have more faith in people to do the right thing because the people I have met and the people I know are good people who love and care about animals like the majority of the members on this forum. Sometimes I wonder where the negative posts come from and where the people who post them find such despicable people who don't love these beautiful dogs and have such hatred in their hearts and can be so cruel.

I don't discriminate against mixed breed dogs and find nothing wrong with breeding them if it is, again, done responsibly, and I abhor that the standard requires the barbaric custom of tail docking, I do believe that temperament is more important than outward appearance and I think the AKC is a scam registry if there ever was one because it is simply a money grubbing business that condones puppymills because of the money they get from all the puppies they register for them. It is disgraceful. Here is a link that proves exactly what I am saying. http://anniehughes.com/roar.htm

If these views make me an idiot in your eyes, then so be it......

Kim, once again this is not about you. But all the puppymills, dogs in shelters... make me realize there are way too many puppies being bred irresponsibly.

Sometimes I wonder where the negative posts come from and where the people who post them find such despicable people who don't love these beautiful dogs and have such hatred in their hearts and can be so cruel.

??? I agree, but maybe many of us are sick of supporting animal abuse, which I feel it is.


But all this once again supports "my opinion" that people will come up with any excuse. Which is heartbreaking for these poor pups and all the thousands that face death in the shelters after these irresponsible breedings.

I am also bothered at the fact that anyone who does not support "your" ideas comes under attack.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by Breeze

Kim, once again this is not about you. But all the puppymills, dogs in shelters... make me realize there are way too many puppies being bred irresponsibly.



??? I agree, but maybe many of us are sick of supporting animal abuse, which I feel it is.


But all this once again supports "my opinion" that people will come up with any excuse. Which is heartbreaking for these poor pups and all the thousands that face death in the shelters after these irresponsible breedings.

I am also bothered at the fact that anyone who does not support "your" ideas comes under attack.

I haven't "attacked" anyone and I am not trying to "shove my opinions down anyone's throat" any more than anyone else is, but I cannot idly stand by while people are encouraging someone to have a dog they do not own spayed without the owner's permission. Am the only one who sees that this is just WRONG?

Platinum Yorkies...you did not naswer my question...would you not be outraged if someone spayed yur dog w/o yur permission?

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I haven't "attacked" anyone and I am not trying to "shove my opinions down anyone's throat" any more than anyone else is, but I cannot idly stand by while people are encouraging someone to have a dog they do not own spayed without the owner's permission. Am the only one who sees that this is just WRONG?

Platinum Yorkies...you did not naswer my question...would you not be outraged if someone spayed yur dog w/o yur permission?

No, especially if I left it in someone else's care, and a vet advised me to spay my dog!!!! Should should really stop encouraging BYB!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by ctsweety

I am currently a foster mother to an adorable 8 month old female yorkie. She is the sweetest dog I've ever known and I wish I could keep her. I am currently taking care of her for someone for a few months. She is currently in heat and when the owner took her to the vet yesterday, the vet recommended spaying her. The owner does not want to spay her because she wants to breed her in the future. The problem is that this person is not very responsible (kinda the reason I am taking care of her for now) and I am afraid she will breed her without doing any research. I think this dog has roach back. Is there any way of getting a professional to evaluate her and tell the owner she is not suitable for breeding? I want what is best for the dog and I know if she doesn't get spayed she may have a miserable life with an irresponsible, uninformed breeder.

ctsweety~ You can do a lot to help educate this person and make them think very carefully before breeding this little girl that you care so much for...in fact you are in the best position to influence them. There are many many threads here on the dangers of breeding and the things to be aware of as well as the ways to become educated before making the decision to breed or to learn what to do if you do decide to consider breeding. Is the breeder she got the dog from a reputable one and is she local?

If so you could have her talk to them as well but I would print out as much of the info on here and elsewhere that you can find and appraoch the owner in a caring and compassionate manner about your concerns.

I would hope that she only wants the best for her little girl and she will not make this decision irresponsibly or lightly.

There are also books you can buy which make it clear how difficult breeding yorkies is and you could buy her one as a gift.

If you could keep her away from this thread or get admin to delete it you could invite her to come on here and read all the horror stories that have been posted here about breeding. That would make anyone second guess a decision to breed.

Good luck and I was just wondering if you own yorkies of your own?

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by PlatinumYorkies

No, especially if I left it in someone else's care, and a vet advised me to spay my dog!!!! You should really stop encouraging BYB!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

ctsweety~

I just found the answer to my last question by going back and reading your previous posts.

I see that you have had Princess since October 22nd and you are caring for her for a friend and that you haven't owned a dog since you were a child and have never owned a yorkie.

It sounds like the owner took Princess to the vet so I guess she is still caring for her? I was wondering what the circumstances were that caused her to ask you to foster her? I know from your posts that she was used to sleeping in the bed with her owner, but you were hoping she would sleep in a crate. Do you allow her to sleep with you?

I also read that you were concerned about the dog going into heat and "bleeding" all over the place but that you have fallen in love with her.

Yorkies are notorious for doing that to a person...LOL...

One of the reasons I guess I am so concerned about your desire for your friend to spay Princess is that I do not agree with spaying or neutering dogs unless there is a reason other than human convenience to do so. My vet and many other progressive vets believe that dogs, like humans, should keep all of their God given "parts" unless there is a valid reason to remove them. They have convinced me with scientific proof and evidence that the arguments that it is healthier to alter than not too is a myth. There, of course, are, as you have alluded to, many vets and pet owners who disagree with this, and a lot of vets will recommend spaying just as a matter of course because it is a high profit surgery for them.

Because I understand the risk of anesthesia as well as the pain following the surgery, and the fact that I can assure that my girls will never get pregnant , I have decided at this point not to subject my babies to what I consider to be an unnecessary surgery. I know from your posts that you consider the bleeding from the heat to be "yucky" as you call it, but I simply put panties w/pads on my girls and there is very little mess. What mess there is I am happy to deal with instead of subjecting them to what I consider to be an unnecesary, painful and risky surgery.

Should either or my girls develop any problems which might be remedied by spaying like false pregnancies, mastitis or anything else, I may decide to have the surgery, but until then, I feel they are better off as they are.

While I hope that Princess' owner decides NOT to breed her because I believe breeding is too great a risk for any female dog and I feel that there are too many unwanted dogs in shelters, I also hope that she doesn't have her spayed but that she is a responsible owner and does what is in the dog's best interests rather than her own.

As always, however, these are only my opinions and I respect the owner's right to make the decisions they feel are best for their pet.

Good luck with Princess.

[Itspuppyluv]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I think I must have more faith in people to do the right thing because the people I have met and the people I know are good people who love and care about animals like the majority of the members on this forum. Sometimes I wonder where the negative posts come from and where the people who post them find such despicable people who don't love these beautiful dogs and have such hatred in their hearts and can be so cruel.

I have often wondered about this myself. I know you like to give people the benefit of the doubt, you go to dog shows, meet people at dog parks and I assume in your search for your dogs you only found good breeders that care a lot about their pets but there are horrible people out there breeding for the money. If you don't care about the dogs - watch Animal Cops, there are many - you don't care if they are too small to breed, have genetic defects, if they die. It is an easy way to make money! Name one thing where easy money is involved that doesn't attract despicable people. How can you not see it? The world is full of uncaring people. There are people out there who have lit dogs on fire for the fun of it. Just because you've never met them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I do not agree with spaying or neutering dogs unless there is a reason other than human convenience to do so. My vet and many other progressive vets believe that dogs, like humans, should keep all of their God given "parts" unless there is a valid reason to remove them.

This works for you. I did not have my dog neutered for my convenience. I did it for his health and because I did not want to take a chance he would breed.
I think it is irresponsible to start suggesting to thousands of people that as long as you are careful there is no reason to spay or neuter. We already destroy millions of dogs in this country every year, think about how many more will have to be put down if the public changes it's mind about this.
Somewhere Bob Barker's head just exploded.

[jesscruz]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

In what way? I know you don't have a dog now, but if you did and something happened that required you to place it in someone else's care temporarily and they decided to have it altered without your consent would you not be outraged?

This is what Stewie's Mom and Jesscruz are promoting without even knowing all of the facts. What they are suggesting is illegal at best and immoral and criminal to my way of thinking.

We have heard NOTHING from the dog's owner.........I am not disputing the foster mom's story but I would not make such drastic suggestions without hearing from both parties.

and what facts do you know kim?to say any different? oh wait i bet your trying to get her phone number so you can call her right? i would rather have her take that dog and get it spayed to prevent a horrible life in the future beause her owner wasn't educated on breeding before hand. if i was that owner ofcourse i would be upset, but guess what that will never be me because I WOULD EDUCATED MYSELF BEFORE I TRY TO BREED MY DOG! you are not a breeder kim! you can read all the articles in the world, you can get "information" from your breeder friends, but there is nothing more educating than first hand experience, so until you get that experience YOURSELF i don't think you should be telling anyone anything about breeding WICH YOU ALWAYS DO! i find it very funny how YOU are not willing to "risk" your dogs but yet you feel it's okay that others do just to get that tiny yorkie. talk about hypocritical.

[Itspuppyluv]

[QUOTE=SoCalyorkiLvr]
While I hope that Princess' owner decides NOT to breed her because I believe breeding is too great a risk for any female dog and I feel that there are too many unwanted dogs in shelters, I also hope that she doesn't have her spayed but that she is a responsible owner and does what is in the dog's best interests rather than her own.

And you wonder why people get upset with you? This thread isn't about you but surely you can see why it turns that way.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by Itspuppyluv

I have often wondered about this myself. I know you like to give people the benefit of the doubt, you go to dog shows, meet people at dog parks and I assume in your search for your dogs you only found good breeders that care a lot about their pets but there are horrible people out there breeding for the money. If you don't care about the dogs - watch Animal Cops, there are many - you don't care if they are too small to breed, have genetic defects, if they die. It is an easy way to make money! Name one thing where easy money is involved that doesn't attract despicable people. How can you not see it? The world is full of uncaring people. There are people out there who have lit dogs on fire for the fun of it. Just because you've never met them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

I do not agree with spaying or neutering dogs unless there is a reason other than human convenience to do so. My vet and many other progressive vets believe that dogs, like humans, should keep all of their God given "parts" unless there is a valid reason to remove them.

This works for you. I did not have my dog neutered for my convenience. I did it for his health and because I did not want to take a chance he would breed.
I think it is irresponsible to start suggesting to thousands of people that as long as you are careful there is no reason to spay or neuter. We already destroy millions of dogs in this country every year, think about how many more will have to be put down if the public changes it's mind about this.
Somewhere Bob Barker's head just exploded.

I respect your opinion and hope that you can respect mine. Here is a part of an article from www.neutering.org that explains my position and why it is not irresponsible:

The Ethics of Neutering
"Forced castration is immoral.
In 1985, the Supreme Court recognized this when it ruled that involuntary surgical castration
constituted cruel and unusual punishment."
~ Atul Gawande

Why am I against neutering my companion animal? Well, the basic answer is pretty simple; I don't want to be neutered myself. I don't want the surgical mutilation of my gender... the loss of my sex and what I was created by God and Nature to be. I consider my companion animals my friends, subjecting them to something that I myself could not tolerate just doesn't seem very friendly to me.

People might say, "but animals don't think like that, they don't care if they are neutered or not." I must reply that I don't subscribe to this theory because neutering alters many behavioral and physical characteristics; it must therefore alter attitudes and drives. Neutering devitalizes an animal and many people see this as an advantage because it makes the animal easier to control. Spay has been shown to cause nervous disorders in Bitches, resulting in worsened separation anxiety and even digestive issues. In Wolves spayed females scent changes and they may need to be separated from their pack or harassed to death by pack members.

Billions of years of trial and error went into the complex living organism. If gonads were simply isolated organs of reproduction then removing them would not be such a consequential issue, but these organs serve complex and interrelated functions involving growth and mental and physical development... they regulate many biological processes other than reproduction... and even have a bearing on social interaction between the animals themselves. Human beings are not wise enough to know the ways of God and Nature; to presume such is the folly of fools. We haven't a clue what our animal companions may think of neuter or how their animal friends may regard them for being de-sexed.

Another reason I'm against neuter is people telling me that I'm irresponsible for keeping an intact animal. They seem to use the sexual mutilation of their "pets" as a soapbox to stand on to hoist up their egos and put themselves above others.

Bob (your) Barker's "be a responsible pet owner, have your dog or cat spayed or neutered" is an example of some people trying to guilt-control other people into thoughtless acts. In fact it's not even an intelligent slogan because spay and neuter are two words that mean the same thing. Population control of domestic animals is a serious issue, as is the population control of the human animal which is totally running amok. Maybe human beings should do first by example, aye, and get themselves neutered too!

People don't want a dog. People want something that looks like a dog.

I am NOT irresponsible for keeping my animal companions intact. In fact, to have intact animals and prevent them from mating requires a good deal more responsibility that most people possess... which is one reason why neutering is so popular; many people are lazy and would rather surgically carve their canine into a servile plaything than deal with the whole creature. Well, fine... if that's your ethic and the only way you can prevent superfluous life, a tormented existence, and an early death then so be it... go out and neuter your "pet," but don't you dare look down on those of us who choose not to do this and call us irresponsible!

Yet another item that troubles me about the neuter craze are people I call Neuter Nazis. These, oh so much better than thou, hypocrites frequently operate animal shelters and rescues while often breeding animals themselves. They are snoods who want to know everything about everyone and snoop into peoples lives, under the guise of inspection, thinking they know what's best for everybody. These people develop adoption contracts the size of a telephone book that are hardly legal and impossible to make binding, and demand neuter as a prerequisite of adoption regardless of another person's ethical or spiritual beliefs and practices. They are simple control freaks who enjoy playing God, and they get off on putting down others who do not subscribe to their practices. What is most important to a Neuter Nazi is their political agenda, NOT the health and welfare of animals. They are quite likely responsible for a huge number of the homeless animals who are put to death annually, because after having a go-round with these people a lot of folk just say to hell with this and go out and buy a puppy. I devote an entire section to these people below.

"In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self."
~ Lord Mahavira


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Please go to ww.neutering.org for more info on this subject.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

[QUOTE=Itspuppyluv]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

While I hope that Princess' owner decides NOT to breed her because I believe breeding is too great a risk for any female dog and I feel that there are too many unwanted dogs in shelters, I also hope that she doesn't have her spayed but that she is a responsible owner and does what is in the dog's best interests rather than her own.

And you wonder why people get upset with you? This thread isn't about you but surely you can see why it turns that way.

Why would anyone get upset with me for expressing an honest, well reasoned opinion?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by jesscruz

and what facts do you know kim?to say any different? oh wait i bet your trying to get her phone number so you can call her right? i would rather have her take that dog and get it spayed to prevent a horrible life in the future beause her owner wasn't educated on breeding before hand. if i was that owner ofcourse i would be upset, but guess what that will never be me because I WOULD EDUCATED MYSELF BEFORE I TRY TO BREED MY DOG! you are not a breeder kim! you can read all the articles in the world, you can get "information" from your breeder friends, but there is nothing more educating than first hand experience, so until you get that experience YOURSELF i don't think you should be telling anyone anything about breeding WICH YOU ALWAYS DO! i find it very funny how YOU are not willing to "risk" your dogs but yet you feel it's okay that others do just to get that tiny yorkie. talk about hypocritical.

She has had the dog for a total of 20 days and posted this on the 11th day of her foster care for the dog: "So do they bleed for 7 days or 21 days? Yuck. I wish her owners would just spay her or let me spay her. I'm just the foster parent so I can't make that decision."

She was wanting to spay her when she had only had her for a week and a half due to her own inconvenience with having to deal with the "mess".