Microchipping

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Teresamag

Oh, I totally agree. Sometimes people just don't abide by the contract, that's why I have them write the check and I mail the in registration paper (or do it online when the person is picking up the puppy) to make sure it gets done and to make sure my name stays on as second contact. The only reason I put their names first and my name second is because sometimes people move and/or change phone numbers and forget to notify me. If their dog ends up found in a shelter (not turned in) or is taken to a vets office the shelter or office can usually reach the owners and if they can't reach them first they can reach me as second contact person. My puppies may be several states away and it would be better for the puppy if their owner can come pick them up immediately instead of me trying to get them several states away and maybe not being able to reach the owners.

If the dog is an owner turn in at an animal shelter the shelter will not scan for a microchip (because the owner is turning the dog in) so you would not be notified anyway. Unfortunate but true.

I buy my microchips from Avid in bulk (I think it's 25 in each package but I haven't bought any in about 2 years) which makes each chip about $8 each. I also had my vet teach me how to insert them and with his permission I do them at home when the puppy is about 10 weeks old that way the little insertion point has time to totally heal up by the time they go to their new homes. The insertion process just takes a second to be done by me - a person the puppy is familiar with and then he isn't stressed out by a stranger. It's a very easy process and then I don't have to risk taking my puppies into the vet's office where they might be exposed to diseases (they already go at least once for a puppy check up I don't like to risk taking them in too many times). I also register the puppies with AKC's CAR (Canine Animal Recovery) which is $17.50 if done online or $19.50 if done by mail.
Teresa

I can see the pros and cons of doing it both ways. I do believe that the shelter checks for mocrochips even if it is surrendered by the owner, or someone claiming to be the owner. And I would want to know if my puppies are ending up in shelters.

I know there are other breeders who do it themselves. But I have never even seen it done so I prefer not to try it. They also said I would have to buy the chip reader if I did it myself.

[MaddiesMommie]

I am not a breeder, but here is what I kept thinking from the owners point of view, hope you don't mind.

I think having the chip registered to the breeder would be great IF the breeder has excellent records and keeps a relationship with the owner. What if the breeder stops breeding? Records are lost/destroyed?

Had Maddie's breeder been "ideal", and she wanted to keep the chip registered in her name I probably woouldn't have given it a second thought. However, what if something happened while on vaccation, or car accident and she was missing and turned up in a shelter? Would the breeder notify me when the dog was found? Or assume the worst and recover her? Just some thoughts I had.

[JeanieK]

You make some very good points. So there are pros and cons either way.

But if registered to the new owner, and the owner wants to be rid of the dog and surrenders them to a shelter, the brweeder would never know. some owners do not stay in contact with the breeder.

The registries should have the breeders name on a password protected account, not to ever be changed, and to always be notified. Then have the owners name and a second contact persoln.

[bellemarie]

i am seriously concidering having all my future pups chipped and registered to me as the 2ndary contact; simply because i had a real scare this week...
the only person who hasnt kept in touch was the only family that i was only 99% sure of (rather than 100%), and when i saw a puppy the same age that is the image of the rest of the litter being sold on gumtree.com - i panciked! thankfully it wasnt one of mine being rehomed (i always insist i'm notified and i will always take a dog back) but have offered to help her rehome the puppy (well, 1yr) anyway.
but then again, i'm not sure how much chipping would help if that situation ever did happen with one of mine...

[MaddiesMommie]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

You make some very good points. So there are pros and cons either way.

But if registered to the new owner, and the owner wants to be rid of the dog and surrenders them to a shelter, the brweeder would never know. some owners do not stay in contact with the breeder.

The registries should have the breeders name on a password protected account, not to ever be changed, and to always be notified. Then have the owners name and a second contact persoln.

I like having both names on the account. I feel very strongly that the owner should have a connection to the dog should the unexpected happen.

[kalina82]

Personally I don't think I would purchase a puppy from someone who wouldn't allow me to register the dog in my name. It just feels like the breeder still has some sort of possession over my dog. What if the dog does get loose by some unfortunate accident and ends up in the shelter? The dog would be scanned and the breeder would be called. What if the breeder and new owner hadn't really kept in touch? Would the breeder still trust the person she sold the dog to if she hadn't heard from them in a while, and just found out one of her babies is in a shelter? If the trust is questioned, would the breeder not call the owners to see what happened and instead just keep the dog now? Or what if the breeder does try to call the owners but finds that the number she has is wrong? What if the breeder tries to claim that the dog is her's because its in her name and has been in her name since it was a baby, and won't give it back to the owners? possession is 9/10ths of the law, or so i'm told.

There are too many "what ifs" in this type of situation for me.

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The registries should have the breeders name on a password protected account, not to ever be changed, and to always be notified. Then have the owners name and a second contact person.

I like this idea. I think the breeders should be able to chip and register their puppies with their AKC number as their sub-name, the kennel name, and the breeders telephone number & address. This information is saved in the dogs profile and cannot be deleted. Then the breeder can give the new owner a "change of ownership" form to be filled out and sent to the microchip company (this requires a fee with most companies i believe, at least it does with AVID). The owner can use their information as first contact and then another's information as second contact but cannot delete the breeders information from the account.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Nancy I understand what you are saying, and I am not against microchipping.

But it is like gun conterol laws, the bad guys are not going to register their guns.

The same goes for a breeder who would kill and dump his dogs. If he is going to kill the he could also cut out the microchip.

that last statement made me think (again) why it's not a good idea to 'advertise' where you live (if you sell puppies)...show the pups anywhere but your home...should someone know you possess a good "breeder" dog and have pups available if they broke in and stole your microchipped dog, they could cut out the microchip and just breed it. I've heard that people have had their dogs stolen from their house when it was well known they had valuable dogs. Probably a potential hazard also, when Yorkie prices go so high and someone wants one if they found one "cheap" and question a scar on it, the person could say it got injured (I'm sure removing of the microchip would leave a mark) they might even tell them that's why it was "cheap" (due to a minor injury scar)...like people who buy those "cheap" stereos out of someone's garage (hmmm, furthers the car breaking into business)
Jeesh, my mind wanders, but it's scary. I worry when I'm gone and my Yorkies bark at passer-bys through the window it's like advertising "Yorkies here, people not, come and get 'em"

[816Tuesday]

Why do you think a commercial breeder will pay extra money to have the puppies they intend to sell microchipped? I just bought a $1500 puppy with a microchip stuck in his back. Every time I pet him, I could feel this hard lump under his skin. I looked up info. on Avid and other chip sellers. Found that I could not change my dogs chip to my name, the breeder had to do it. Also, found that I couldn't have my vet remove it, because it wasn't registered to me. I read quite a bit of info. about the chip and cancer. Common sense tells you that any foreign object put in the body can cause problems. What happens when you get a splinter in your finger? Your body sends white blood cells to fight it, like a virus. Some give up, others try to contain the foreign body by making scar tissue. I also read that it is illegal for you to remove the chip yourself, even if you are the owner. No offense, but I don't think anyone should have the right to make the decision of putting a chip into a puppy they intend to sell, unless the new owner wants it. Also, if someone is going to steal your dog, they can remove the chip themselves, any one can do it regardless of what others will tell you. My new pup had a slightly elevated temp. at his first vet appointment but nothing was wrong with him. After the chip "mysteriously fell out", my little boy is 100% fine and I no longer have to feel that thing in his back when I pet him. So, why do breeders, commercial and otherwise really pay to microchip puppies?

[816Tuesday]

The microchip is very small and will not leave a scar upon removal.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by 816Tuesday

Why do you think a commercial breeder will pay extra money to have the puppies they intend to sell microchipped? I just bought a $1500 puppy with a microchip stuck in his back. Every time I pet him, I could feel this hard lump under his skin. I looked up info. on Avid and other chip sellers. Found that I could not change my dogs chip to my name, the breeder had to do it. Also, found that I couldn't have my vet remove it, because it wasn't registered to me. I read quite a bit of info. about the chip and cancer. Common sense tells you that any foreign object put in the body can cause problems. What happens when you get a splinter in your finger? Your body sends white blood cells to fight it, like a virus. Some give up, others try to contain the foreign body by making scar tissue. I also read that it is illegal for you to remove the chip yourself, even if you are the owner. No offense, but I don't think anyone should have the right to make the decision of putting a chip into a puppy they intend to sell, unless the new owner wants it. Also, if someone is going to steal your dog, they can remove the chip themselves, any one can do it regardless of what others will tell you. My new pup had a slightly elevated temp. at his first vet appointment but nothing was wrong with him. After the chip "mysteriously fell out", my little boy is 100% fine and I no longer have to feel that thing in his back when I pet him. So, why do breeders, commercial and otherwise really pay to microchip puppies?

did you cut the microchip out of your own dog???????

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by 816Tuesday

Why do you think a commercial breeder will pay extra money to have the puppies they intend to sell microchipped? I just bought a $1500 puppy with a microchip stuck in his back. Every time I pet him, I could feel this hard lump under his skin. I looked up info. on Avid and other chip sellers. Found that I could not change my dogs chip to my name, the breeder had to do it. Also, found that I couldn't have my vet remove it, because it wasn't registered to me. I read quite a bit of info. about the chip and cancer. Common sense tells you that any foreign object put in the body can cause problems. What happens when you get a splinter in your finger? Your body sends white blood cells to fight it, like a virus. Some give up, others try to contain the foreign body by making scar tissue. I also read that it is illegal for you to remove the chip yourself, even if you are the owner. No offense, but I don't think anyone should have the right to make the decision of putting a chip into a puppy they intend to sell, unless the new owner wants it. Also, if someone is going to steal your dog, they can remove the chip themselves, any one can do it regardless of what others will tell you. My new pup had a slightly elevated temp. at his first vet appointment but nothing was wrong with him. After the chip "mysteriously fell out", my little boy is 100% fine and I no longer have to feel that thing in his back when I pet him. So, why do breeders, commercial and otherwise really pay to microchip puppies?

a commercial breeder probably wouldn't spend the money, but as the good, caring breeder of the pups, you have an obligation to ensure the dog is always safe. when your dog had his chip, if you had of tossed him out onto the street, the breeder could find out and re-home it to a suitable home. yes if someone steals your dog they can illegally, cruelly and painfully remove it themselves- so i dread to think what you mean by 'mysteriously fell out'.
if the breeder has to change the name, why is that a fault; did you not keep the details of the breeder? surely that proves that the breeder intends on knowing the whereabouts and safety of their pups?
i can feel the chip on my tiny Bambi- on her neck- but i'd rather put up with that than her get out and lost, and end up with someone else or in a shelter... and as for the relation to cancer- you are aware every time you step outside you are at risk of cancer? in fact, sitting at your computer is also endangering you and your dog if he is near... to me, their whereabouts and the safety that goes with this knowledge far outweighs the cancer risk, and even though i have not yet chipped any of my puppies, if the new owners had a problem with it, they would get their deposit back.

[816Tuesday]

Oh, one last thought on this microchip business: Research has been shown as to how many pets get reunited with owners by chip, but where is the research on how many pets get reunited with their owners by the good ol name tag and collar? My dad and brothers lost many a dog on coon and rabbit hunts, the dogs were always returned due to the tag. Maybe we should all question the logic of all this, and put our pet's safety first. Also, to those who don't know, laws are being passed that force everyone with a cat, dog, horse, cow and other private owned animals to microchip them. What is the real meaning of all this? Who is benefiting financially? What is happening to your privacy?

[816Tuesday]

I bought my puppy from a commercial breeder. The lame excuse that breeders care so darn much about the future lives of every single puppy they sell is ridiculous! Why pay extra money to have an invasive object that comes with potential risks implanted? I think certain breeders do this in order to maintain a hold on each pet. When you sell something, let it go! Or like the other lady said, put the new owners info. on the chip. Also, if you want to talk cruel and painful, what do you think a puppy feels when you twist its tail off and cut its claws off? Oh, thats right, it won't remember! See, anyone can say anything to justify what they want to do. The pet owners with these implants have a right to know the potential risks and reasons behind such procedures. You attacking me just shows you don't care how the owner feels, just yourself.

[JeanieK]

Those good old fashioned collars and tags can get caught on things causing you dog to be choked to death. Why not just ask the breeder to transfer it to you? rather than to preform surgery on your dog.

[Bitsy]

Are you breeding the dog you took the chip out of? I remember a post from you asking about breeding a 4 lb female with a 2 1/2 lb male (I may not have this exactly right, that is why I am asking.

Does the breeder you got the dog from know you are breeding them (if you are that is?). Do you have unlimited AKC registration? I think that is what you need to breed AKC dogs, but I am not real knowledgeable as I never intend breeding any dogs.

Do you mind sharing where you got the dog from? You said commercial breeder, and I am unfamiliar with that term. Does that mean puppy miller, hobby breader, etc?