Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

[bjh]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

First off I have not bred a litter of parti colored yorkies, lol. I will state a breeder who does the proper health testing on their breeding stock and their off springs are better breeders than the members of the ytca who do no health testing on their breeding stock or off springs! If all members of the ytca adhered to the breed standard there would be no reason for enhancing of any kind.

I am not a member of the YTCA but I have a lot of respect for the organization. I know some of it's members and I find they are all respectable. As far as I know the YTCA does not require specific tests for dogs but I think it would be up to the individual breeder to do what they think is best for their lines as far as screening. If a breeder wants to be unethical they will do it whether they are a member of the YTCA or not. You cannot judge all members just because of a few bad ones. Breeders can fake test records and x-rays, I have heard of it being done in other breeds so it could happen with any breed of dog. That is why there is so much emphasis put on knowing your breeder and researching lines. Even the best of breeders sometimes produce dogs that are not up to their expectations. Consistently breeding nice dogs is not a easy thing to do so I have a great respect for those that set their standards high and try to breed show quality yorkies.

As for the coat enhancing, I don't think it was ever stop so I just don't worry about it. A sound body is much more important than a coat that might be to light or to dark and I really think most of the judges know that too. There are good judges and bad judges just like there are good breeders and bad breeders. Sometimes it is the best dog that wins and sometimes it is the best handler. That's life.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I'm not trying to justify "knowingly" showing a carrier, but this is not something new. years ago they just hid the faulty offspring and went on to show and breed the dogs.

Jeanie,

You may not try and justify it but others are that's the point I'm making. I never heard of parti yorkies until I came to YT. I'm sure it's not new just like enhancing isn't new but wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it, whether you knowingly enhance or show a parti carrier. There is no difference in enhancing and showing a parti carrier that's all I'm saying and why pick someone apart for enhancing when the one showing a known parti carrier is doing the same thing? That's all I'm saying
And I'm saying as long as the standard is written the way it's written I stand behind it and until it changes and that is what we should all strive for.
Donna

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

It's not the job of the YTCA to "control" various breeders and what they decide to breed, it the job to preserve and protect the standard. Why should they embrace something that they think is a flaw? There will always be those who want to breed what they see as unique or different, but this misses the whole point of purebred breeding.

Seeing as their attrempt to preserve and protect the breed standard, as it is written, is clearly in jeapordy, they might want to consider rethinking their decision to make the parti color a fault, instead of making a separate category for them, to preserve and protect the parti colored yorkie also.

They appear to be fighting a losing battle and perhaps that is the purpose of those who are showing their carriers, is to letthe YTCA know that they are not going to go away.

I'm not saying it is right, just saying this might be the motive.

[bchgirl]

I don't quite understand the objection against showing a parti carrier..if it's the correct color to be shown...it's the correct color.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I don't quite understand the objection against showing a parti carrier..if it's the correct color to be shown...it's the correct color.

Some feel it is unethical to show or finish a parti carrier (no matter how correct it is) because it carries and can produce a major fault (the parti gene). Infact...it was compared to liver shunt a few pages back.

[gemy]

[QUOTE=JeanieK;3209034]No you misunderstod what I said.

Those of us that y'all call BYBs, because we don't show, still want nice dogs, but we have to work harder to get them because we cannot start out with show quality breeding stock. We have to start from scratch and build our own quality dog, which takes years and years.

Most of us will never get there, but we enjoy the challenge.

The partis have come a long way toward being accpted in the last few years. I believe they will be in the AKC shows some day.

But I love the traditionals also. They are beautiful and I would love to have some really quality traditionals, but will just have to do it the hard way and build them from scratch.

i would never call someone a BYB only because they do not show in conformation.. BYBer's as have been posted in other threads before, do no research on pedigree lines and do not health check their dogs, they offer little if any support to their purchasers of their pups. They might even keep their dogs in unsanitory conditions, and not get regular vet checks.

The fact that one shows or not ,is not in and of itself conclusive evidence that one is breeding in a reputable way.

In some working lines that I know, some breeders elect never to show their dog in conformation, instead they work all the obedience and field trial competitions, and you bet they health test to breed specific requirements.

[bjh]

If someone had a exceptional parti carrier then I see nothing wrong with showing it but I would question what the motive is. Some people just want to champion a dog so they can get more money for the pups. If a parti carrier became a champion and that champion parti carrier was bred to a parti to create champion sired parti yorkies then that would not be improving the breed as set forth by the yorkie standard. I really understand the passion some breeders have for the parti yorkies and the biewers. Some of them are very beautiful but I see more poorly bred ones than quality ones but I guess it is the same way with the standard yorkies. I really wish there were some easy answers.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Do you know for sure that they are getting $5000 a dog? I'd sure like to know how they are doing it. Maybe a few years ago, but not now.

I threw a number out at random. But the price they are getting is really irrelevant to the point I was making. It was really more about ethics, not price.

Originally Posted by JeanieK

they need to accept the fact that partis are not going to go away just because they ignore them.

You know they saying, "if you can't beat em join em". Well they can't beat 'em, they wont go away.

It's funny, because they are probably sitting around saying the same thing about you guys. "We're not just going to accept it because you won't go away." One alternative to 'if you can't beat em, join em' seems to be 'if you can't beat em, try to knock them down to your level.' That seems to be the preferred course of action for many lately.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by bjh

If someone had a exceptional parti carrier then I see nothing wrong with showing it but I would question what the motive is. Some people just want to champion a dog so they can get more money for the pups. If a parti carrier became a champion and that champion parti carrier was bred to a parti to create champion sired parti yorkies then that would not be improving the breed as set forth by the yorkie standard. I really understand the passion some breeders have for the parti yorkies and the biewers. Some of them are very beautiful but I see more poorly bred ones than quality ones but I guess it is the same way with the standard yorkies. I really wish there were some easy answers.

I too see more poorly bred parti's....way too many infact. But the same can be said for traditional yorkies too. One look on puppyfind proves that.
It shouldn't matter the motivation behind wanting to show a parti carrier. As long as the dogs are being improved upon, and is the correct color and adhere's to the standard in terms of coat, structure, and size...it can be shown. Showing our carrier's and breeding them to better quality dogs will improve the parti. IMO...the end justifies the means.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I don't quite understand the objection against showing a parti carrier..if it's the correct color to be shown...it's the correct color.

I don't think the issue is that it's going to produce a parti dog--that's going to happen whether the dog is CH or not when it's bred. Or that fact that people are showing a dog that carry a trait that is a fault. I think the issue for many is with people using a dog's CH status just to increase the value of their pups, or "validate" their programs. I don't think it's really so much a "parti" issue (for some) as it has been pointed out that they disagree with those breeding the standard colored Yorkies and using the same tactics as well.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Jeanie,

You may not try and justify it but others are that's the point I'm making. I never heard of parti yorkies until I came to YT. I'm sure it's not new just like enhancing isn't new but wrong is wrong no matter how you look at it, whether you knowingly enhance or show a parti carrier. There is no difference in enhancing and showing a parti carrier that's all I'm saying and why pick someone apart for enhancing when the one showing a known parti carrier is doing the same thing? That's all I'm saying
And I'm saying as long as the standard is written the way it's written I stand behind it and until it changes and that is what we should all strive for.
Donna

But it won't change unless someone pushes for change.

I can understand why it upsets YTCA members to have people knowingly showing the carriers. I agree with your arguments.

But since it is extremely difficult for parti breeders to get good breeding stock, since most show people won't sell to them, it is understandable why some parti breeders are showing the carriers in order to get good quality dogs to breed with.

not saying it is right, it's sort of like sneaking your bitch in heat into your neighbors back yard to be bred in order to produce a better dog. I'm just saying that I can understand why they are doing it.

And I myself might someday buy the offspring of one of those dogs, in rder to better my own dogs.

We hear all the time, you need to show your dogs, to make sure they are worthy of breeding, yet when someone does show their dog to make sure it is worthy of breeding they are bashed for doing it.

So I understand both sides of the issue. We're being told to show our dogs, then being told, but not in our show ring.

Can you at least try to understand why it is being done.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

But it won't change unless someone pushes for change.

I can understand why it upsets YTCA members to have people knowingly showing the carriers. I agree with your arguments.

But since it is extremely difficult for parti breeders to get good breeding stock, since most show people won't sell to them, it is understandable why some parti breeders are showing the carriers in order to get good quality dogs to breed with.

not saying it is right, it's sort of like sneaking your bitch in heat into your neighbors back yard to be bred in order to produce a better dog. I'm just saying that I can understand why they are doing it.
And I myself might someday buy the offspring of one of those dogs, in rder to better my own dogs.

We hear all the time, you need to show your dogs, to make sure they are worthy of breeding, yet when someone does show their dog to make sure it is worthy of breeding they are bashed for doing it.

So I understand both sides of the issue. We're being told to show our dogs, then being told, but not in our show ring.

Can you at least try to understand why it is being done.

Hmm, I wonder if this is how the parti line originated?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by bjh

If someone had a exceptional parti carrier then I see nothing wrong with showing it but I would question what the motive is. Some people just want to champion a dog so they can get more money for the pups. If a parti carrier became a champion and that champion parti carrier was bred to a parti to create champion sired parti yorkies then that would not be improving the breed as set forth by the yorkie standard. I really understand the passion some breeders have for the parti yorkies and the biewers. Some of them are very beautiful but I see more poorly bred ones than quality ones but I guess it is the same way with the standard yorkies. I really wish there were some easy answers.

I wish there was and easy answer too. Unfortunately I see more poorly bred traditionals than I do quality ones also, thanks to the puppy mills.

But you see it is a catch 22, we canot improve them unless we can get quality dogs to breed to, but no one will sell us quality dogs to breed. So some are showing the carriers, Hopefully their motive is to better the partis and not the money.

Getting commercial breeding outlawed would definitely help all of us. with all of the people against them, I do not understand why it has not been done by now.

if we could just gtet one state to outlaw them, others would follow. They cost the taxpayers a lot of money not to mention the suffering.

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by bjh

I am not a member of the YTCA but I have a lot of respect for the organization. I know some of it's members and I find they are all respectable. As far as I know the YTCA does not require specific tests for dogs but I think it would be up to the individual breeder to do what they think is best for their lines as far as screening. If a breeder wants to be unethical they will do it whether they are a member of the YTCA or not. You cannot judge all members just because of a few bad ones. Breeders can fake test records and x-rays, I have heard of it being done in other breeds so it could happen with any breed of dog. That is why there is so much emphasis put on knowing your breeder and researching lines. Even the best of breeders sometimes produce dogs that are not up to their expectations. Consistently breeding nice dogs is not a easy thing to do so I have a great respect for those that set their standards high and try to breed show quality yorkies.

As for the coat enhancing, I don't think it was ever stop so I just don't worry about it. A sound body is much more important than a coat that might be to light or to dark and I really think most of the judges know that too. There are good judges and bad judges just like there are good breeders and bad breeders. Sometimes it is the best dog that wins and sometimes it is the best handler. That's life.

Apparently you have not had the pleasure of dealing with the ytca members I have. I have not judged all breeding members of the ytca only the ones who breed anything, produce faults along with health issues and sell them as show or breeding prospects! I also think it is very hypocritical for certain members of the ytca to judge breeders who do not show, but produce excellent examples of the standard, when they have their own issues to deal with in their own narrow minded club.

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

It's not the job of the YTCA to "control" various breeders and what they decide to breed, it the job to preserve and protect the standard. Why should they embrace something that they think is a flaw? There will always be those who want to breed what they see as unique or different, but this misses the whole point of purebred breeding.

So you are stating you would rather see a yorkie which meets the standard by looks? Looks is only a VERY VERY small piece of the picture!