Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

First off I will state I am not a member of the "Yorkshire Terrier Club Of Ethical Breeders" nor do I desire to be.

There is good and bad in everything, including the ytca. So my issue is this plain and simple. There are breeders in the ytca with little to no ethics, but they have the right to vote on the breed standard and what is shown in the ring. Which is a slap in the face to the breeders who are not members of the ytca, but breed for better health and conformations. When every members of the ytca can produce the medical testing done on their breeding stock and prove they are all breeding healthy stock, I will show them respect.

As a breeder, you must realize when you decide to breed a certain type of dog, that there is a breed club that decides the standard. If you decide to make your own standard based on what you personally like and dislike, then you will have a tougher road, if what you desire, is respect.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

In my opinion, it depends more on what you're goals are, I've seen some parti breeders who advertise "champion background" and similar terminology and I believe that this is wrong. The purpose of showing is not so that you can raise your prices or add new marketing words to your ads. Some breeders of standard yorkies do this as well, so I don't wish to single out parti breeders, but the word champion should not be in your advertising. After all, this is considered a major fault and one that's very difficult to eliminate, so of course, breeders are worried that this could become a trait in even more lines. I guess this is where honesty and integrity come into play.

I really do not understand where the big worry is.

The standard breeders will always keep their lines parti free, or as free as they have always been, occasionally one pops up. There is room in the world and in the show ring for both colors.

In fact, had the YTCA embraced the color instead of denying that it existed, they would have some control over what is being done with it.

JMO but I believe it was a foollish mistake on the part of the YTCA to ignore the color all these years, and to leave it to the hands of unscrupulous people.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Just curious, on another point that I brought up earlier. Now that Partis are being allowed into some show venues, what have the results of that been? Are there a good number being entered? Etc...

I'm not sure what results you are looking for. They have not been showing long enough to have any results.

Question. If only one parti dog is entered into a show, will it automatically win?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I really do not understand where the big worry is.

The standard breeders will always keep their lines parti free, or as free as they have always been, occasionally one pops up. There is room in the world and in the show ring for both colors.

In fact, had the YTCA embraced the color instead of denying that it existed, they would have some control over what is being done with it.

JMO but I believe it was a foollish mistake on the part of the YTCA to ignore the color all these years, and to leave it to the hands of unscrupulous people.

It's not the job of the YTCA to "control" various breeders and what they decide to breed, it the job to preserve and protect the standard. Why should they embrace something that they think is a flaw? There will always be those who want to breed what they see as unique or different, but this misses the whole point of purebred breeding.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by topknot

I know it sounds confusing - but what we are talking about is the standard - what is the guidline for what yorkies should be.

The standard states:
Colors:Puppies are born black and tan and are normally darker in body color, showing an intermingling of black hair in the tan until they are matured. Color of hair on body and richness of tan on head and legs are of prime importance in adult dogs, to which the following color requirements apply: BLUE: Is a dark steel blue, not a silver blue and not mingled with fawn, bronzy or black hairs. TAN: All tan hair is darker at the roots than in the middle, shading to still lighter tan at the tips. There should be no sooty or black hair intermingled with any of the tan.
Disqualification: Any solid color or combination of colors other than blue and tan as described above. Any white markings other than a small white spot on the forechest that does not exceed 1 inch at its longest dimension.
Information from ytca about Parti-colored: Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

When I returned to yorkies I had to figure this one out too - since I had never seen a parti in all my early years, not until I got on the Internet and started to see photos. I still have not seen one in person.
I would not call it politics since there really is no argument since we should be looking and following the standard. It is simple - JMO. I do have to say - I think parties are cute - but they are not to standard as it is written. If I am breeding I will stick to the standard.

If everyone just stuck to the standard, the yorkie would not even exist. The people who mixed all of those breeds to develop the yorkie, most likely ran into a lot of opposition too.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I agree that starting off with the best stock you can acquire is the route to go. However, 'the best you can acquire' will vary widely from person to person.

If you take 2 open-pedigreed Yorkies (even nice ones) and put them together, you may get a nice pup or two, maybe not. You will not have anything to build on, though, no matter any one pup's qualities. There is no substitute for having a dog that is the result of well thought line breeding. With anything else, there are too many wild cards that will be expressed. I've seen it said that you likely won't live long enough to go any other route other than starting with quality line bred dogs and I do think it's true.

I didn't go the prescribed route but have been fortunate enough to acquire what I consider a quality breeding pair. My challenge now is to not squander what I've got and build something for the future.

I'm like a lot of you in that there isn't a lot of opportunity for getting started showing in my area. I'm mentor-less as far as show preparation goes, there's no breed club nearby to gain handling experience and I've had cold feet about getting into the ring unprepared.

With the litter I have now, I'm keeping a girl back as a prospect. I wish I was better prepared as I feel she has a chance, but she's the one I'm getting my feet wet with. I have been fortunate in recently meeting someone that has years of experience in showing and grooming Poodles and Yorkies, also some puppy match judgung. I took my girl to see him and he went over her point by point in evaluating her. It was good to see her picked apart by someone knowledgeable and get a good evaluation. He actually inquired about any males I might have from the litter for himself so I think he liked what he saw.

My point (if I have one LOL) is that it's extremely important to start with the best dogs you can. After that, you may have to tailor a path best suited for yourself, but you really have to get out there with your dogs to know if your breedings measure up.

Congratulations!!! And good luck with your little girl.

You are so right in saying that what one can aquire varies from person to person.

We have already been told that if we breed partis, chances are slim to none that anyone will sell us a quality puppy. And chances are that we will never manage to produce a champion, but that doesn't keep us from trying.

I will still look to buy the best one that I can get.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Remember the purpose of the YTCA is the "protector" of the standard; it's not to accept every variation of standard a breeder can produce. Pet owners may desire more variety, but variety in a dog breed is not necessarily a good thing for the breed, and after a while, they could start looking like mutts.

Awwww Heck!!! There were yorkies out there looking like mutts before the parti came along.

Many parti breeders are just like the traditional breeders, we strive to produce nice looking dogs that meet thev standard in every way, except the color.

Believe it or not, we are in the same ball park, we are not the typical BYB, we do have a goal and we work hard to achieve that goal.

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

As a breeder, you must realize when you decide to breed a certain type of dog, that there is a breed club that decides the standard. If you decide to make your own standard based on what you personally like and dislike, then you will have a tougher road, if what you desire, is respect.

LOL! I can produce health records on my dogs. Can every member of the ytca do the same? How many of the ytca members do not do acid bile levels on their breeding stock? Many of them! How many of them breed stock with at least a grade 2 knee? Many of them! How many of them breed stock with bad bites, hernias, etc? Many of them! You amaze me at how blind you are when it comes to the ytca. I would also state many members of the ytca are making their own standard when they decide to enhance coat or other areas of their dog for showing. There are many people who would be appalled to know what areas are enhanced beside coat.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

If everyone just stuck to the standard, the yorkie would not even exist. The people who mixed all of those breeds to develop the yorkie, most likely ran into a lot of opposition too.

I think at one time people were more concerned about working dogs, and were breeding for certain traits. We now have lots of established breeds and some people continue to mix breeds looking for dogs that will be excellent at certain tasks. As I said before, it depends upon the goal of the breeder, if your goal is just to produce more pets, which at one time may have been important, things have changed, and we no longer need the abundance of pets being produced.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

LOL! I can produce health records on my dogs. Can every member of the ytca do the same? How many of the ytca members do not do acid bile levels on their breeding stock? Many of them! How many of them breed stock with at least a grade 2 knee? Many of them! How many of them breed stock with bad bites, hernias, etc? Many of them! You amaze me at how blind you are when it comes to the ytca. I would also state many members of the ytca are making their own standard when they decide to enhance coat or other areas of their dog for showing. There are many people who would be appalled to know what areas are enhanced beside coat.

What's your point? Are you saying that you are a better breeder than any member of the YTCA? Good for you, but I still believe that adhering to the breed standard is an important goal as well. Health always comes first in my book, but you are not breeding parti's for health, you are breeding them for looks.

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

What's your point? Are you saying that you are a better breeder than any member of the YTCA? Good for you, but I still believe that adhering to the breed standard is an important goal as well. Health always comes first in my book, but you are not breeding parti's for health, you are breeding them for looks.

First off I have not bred a litter of parti colored yorkies, lol. I will state a breeder who does the proper health testing on their breeding stock and their off springs are better breeders than the members of the ytca who do no health testing on their breeding stock or off springs! If all members of the ytca adhered to the breed standard there would be no reason for enhancing of any kind.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

What's your point? Are you saying that you are a better breeder than any member of the YTCA? Good for you, but I still believe that adhering to the breed standard is an important goal as well. Health always comes first in my book, but you are not breeding parti's for health, you are breeding them for looks.

Nancy hon, This one has an axe to grind obviously, so, in my humble opinion we aren't going to change her mind. She's dead set against YTCA for some reason so no point in arguing with her. I've stopped and not going to waste my time. I know what I do as a breeder/exhibitor and what you and I both know what to look for in a breeder/exhibitor and we educate those who are willing to learn. Unfortunately this one is not going to change her mind so we move on to the next one that is willing to listen and learn.

Donna

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Nope, not reaching. And no, I was not trying to compare the two...thus why I said HYPOTHETICALLY. I was trying to make sense of the statement and was used the first thing that came to mind as an example...apparently it was not a good example. Take my words for face value, as they were intended. I was not even remotely trying to insinuate that color and life threatening conditions were comparable. Guess I should have thrown in a few more disclaimers to make that clear.

My point was, that if you CH a dog, based on the breed standard, it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans if in the very next generation, that dog is passing on undesireable traits or health issues--how much would that really 'validate' one's program.

I agree with the point you are trying to make, and I understood what you meant.

I can see why people would get upset for someone knowingly showing a carrier in order to get champions in their lines.

But I can see why people would do it since that appears to be the only way that we parti breeders will ever get quality breeding stock.

if the YTCA would just create another category the whole thing would be a lot simpler, and they would have control.

they need to accept the fact that partis are not going to go away just because they ignore them.

You know they saying, "if you can't beat em join em". Well they can't beat 'em, they wont go away.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

That's a very good point. Because I'm sure that video is perfectly representative of every single breeder/representative that steps into the ring with a dog, eh? Just as I'm sure that the BYB breeding the "Partis" that don't even resemble Yorkies and selling them for Rare at $5K a pop are representative of every single Parti breeder out there. Because if one person is doing it, then let's condemn the whole lot...

Do you know for sure that they are getting $5000 a dog? I'd sure like to know how they are doing it. Maybe a few years ago, but not now.

I get way more calls looking for traditionals than I do for partis.
But here in the center of the country, we are a little behind the times.

In this area yorkies are way down on the list of top selling dogs. They might be #2 in the country, but here they are like #10

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I will post one more time in this thread and then I'm done....Those that tear apart those that "enhance" a dog and claim those are the bad people and then those of you who take a parti carrier in the ring "knowing" it's wrong are no different than those that enhance. Maybe if you stop tearing down people trying to justify breeding outside the standard maybe there wouldn't be any arguments.
Why do some need to find reasons to pick people apart just to try and prove a point when I've seen many posts in this thread saying how enhancing is cheating, lying and getting away with something and then it's ok to bring in a parti carrier so how is that not cheating, lying and getting away with something? I see no difference....
Just saying....

Those that breed Parti's are never going to agree with those of us that stand behind the standard of the Yorkshire Terrier and visa versa but I see no difference in enhancing for show and knowingly taking in a Parti carrier in the ring because we all know what will show up in our breeding program whether or not it has that championship title. This should be for the betterment of the breed and passion for the breed and not profit.

Whether you enhance or show a parti carrier you know you are showing something that will crop up in your breeding program. Can I live with a lighter yorkie in my breeding program? Yes! Can I live with a Parti carrier or Parti in my breeding program? NO! Lighter yorkies are accepted in the show ring but Parti's are not so there ya have it! From my perspective at least.

I'm not trying to justify "knowingly" showing a carrier, but this is not something new. years ago they just hid the faulty offspring and went on to show and breed the dogs.