I know it sounds confusing - but what we are talking about is the standard - what is the guidline for what yorkies should be.

The standard states:
Colors:Puppies are born black and tan and are normally darker in body color, showing an intermingling of black hair in the tan until they are matured. Color of hair on body and richness of tan on head and legs are of prime importance in adult dogs, to which the following color requirements apply: BLUE: Is a dark steel blue, not a silver blue and not mingled with fawn, bronzy or black hairs. TAN: All tan hair is darker at the roots than in the middle, shading to still lighter tan at the tips. There should be no sooty or black hair intermingled with any of the tan.
Disqualification: Any solid color or combination of colors other than blue and tan as described above. Any white markings other than a small white spot on the forechest that does not exceed 1 inch at its longest dimension.
Information from ytca about Parti-colored: Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

When I returned to yorkies I had to figure this one out too - since I had never seen a parti in all my early years, not until I got on the Internet and started to see photos. I still have not seen one in person.
I would not call it politics since there really is no argument since we should be looking and following the standard. It is simple - JMO. I do have to say - I think parties are cute - but they are not to standard as it is written. If I am breeding I will stick to the standard.

All dogs are cute in their own way...but I'll stick to the standard as written :)

Donna

This is one of my pet peeves: Anyone who advertises "champion line" and when you look at the pedigree the champions are way back beyond the 3rd generation. Just another gimic to sell their pups and using the hard work that past breeders did. If they want to say champion line - they need to go to shows and have their own dog become a champion. JMO

One can only be responsible for their own program. Based on the fact there is no perfect dog. A breeding program should be one that is improving the breed and every breeding if done correctly should be attempted to accomplish that.

Wise words! :thumbup::thumbup:

:thumbup:

I agree that starting off with the best stock you can acquire is the route to go. However, 'the best you can acquire' will vary widely from person to person.

If you take 2 open-pedigreed Yorkies (even nice ones) and put them together, you may get a nice pup or two, maybe not. You will not have anything to build on, though, no matter any one pup's qualities. There is no substitute for having a dog that is the result of well thought line breeding. With anything else, there are too many wild cards that will be expressed. I've seen it said that you likely won't live long enough to go any other route other than starting with quality line bred dogs and I do think it's true.

I didn't go the prescribed route but have been fortunate enough to acquire what I consider a quality breeding pair. My challenge now is to not squander what I've got and build something for the future.

I'm like a lot of you in that there isn't a lot of opportunity for getting started showing in my area. I'm mentor-less as far as show preparation goes, there's no breed club nearby to gain handling experience and I've had cold feet about getting into the ring unprepared.

With the litter I have now, I'm keeping a girl back as a prospect. I wish I was better prepared as I feel she has a chance, but she's the one I'm getting my feet wet with. I have been fortunate in recently meeting someone that has years of experience in showing and grooming Poodles and Yorkies, also some puppy match judgung. I took my girl to see him and he went over her point by point in evaluating her. It was good to see her picked apart by someone knowledgeable and get a good evaluation. He actually inquired about any males I might have from the litter for himself so I think he liked what he saw.

My point (if I have one LOL) is that it's extremely important to start with the best dogs you can. After that, you may have to tailor a path best suited for yourself, but you really have to get out there with your dogs to know if your breedings measure up.

[quote=Mardelin;3209173]What is the difference in Championing a Parti carrier or a regular off colored yorkie who doesn’t fit the standard without enhancements ??

Sounds like the Parti breeders are working the system same as the regular breeders who don’t meet the standard (color wise).

If the YTCA and it’s members are worried about this problem maybe it’s time to work with the Parti breeders to get a variation of the Yorkshire Terrier breed started.

I’m sure the Parti breeders would rather show full Parti’s over carriers.

Depends on what you mean by "enhancement." That phrase can cover a very wide variety of things...do you mean outright dying a dogs hair, or using a product that just enhances color, or a finishing spray to make hair shiner, or slicker brush....etc etc. Those, as well as just about anything used for grooming, can be considered "enhancements."

[quote=BamaFan121s;3209163]Wow...now your reaching. Whether hypothetically or not...how can you even compare a coat COLOR to a life threatening condition? They are not even on the same page.

And the reasons for showing and finishing a traditonal colored yorkie that just happens to be a carrier...is no different then others showing and finishing their traditional's. It helps to validate a breeding program.

Remember the purpose of the YTCA is the "protector" of the standard; it's not to accept every variation of standard a breeder can produce. Pet owners may desire more variety, but variety in a dog breed is not necessarily a good thing for the breed, and after a while, they could start looking like mutts.

Nope, not reaching. And no, I was not trying to compare the two...thus why I said HYPOTHETICALLY. I was trying to make sense of the statement and was used the first thing that came to mind as an example...apparently it was not a good example. Take my words for face value, as they were intended. I was not even remotely trying to insinuate that color and life threatening conditions were comparable. :rolleyes: Guess I should have thrown in a few more disclaimers to make that clear.

My point was, that if you CH a dog, based on the breed standard, it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans if in the very next generation, that dog is passing on undesireable traits or health issues--how much would that really 'validate' one's program.

Bingo!
Everyone needs to watch that video in the general section. That handler/groomer took a dog who did not meet the standard color, and within a few hours...she was a brand new dog and ready for the ring. And they call it "enhancement". LOL I call it...fooling yourself, your breeding program, and the judge.

Many show breeders claim they want to protect the beautiful blue and tan "trademark" coat of the Yorkshire Terrier. After watching those video's...you can't help but wonder how many of these wonderful coats are real or "enhanced"?

I'm talking about wrong colored dogs that the only way to meet the standard is to dye the dog or use color enhancements to obtain the correct color.
Those dogs would not meet the standard if shown without doing so.

Those who do not like dogs who carry a Parti gene mean little because if a carrier meets the standard then it has every right to be shown.
The dog is after all correctly colored per standard.

That's a very good point. Because I'm sure that video is perfectly representative of every single breeder/representative that steps into the ring with a dog, eh? Just as I'm sure that the BYB breeding the "Partis" that don't even resemble Yorkies and selling them for Rare at $5K a pop are representative of every single Parti breeder out there. Because if one person is doing it, then let's condemn the whole lot...

Just because a few find the color undesirable...doesn't mean everyone does. If my parti carrier is a good example of the breed and meets the standard in terms of color and conforamtion...he has just as much right to be shown regardless of the fact that he can produce a parti. If a judge decides to put him up over all the non carrier yorkies...then I know I am going in the right direction as far as conformation is concerned. It is a tool to be used to help a breeding program.

:thumbup:

This video was made by the PurePaws company, it's to sell a product. Will there be breeders who use it so they can sell more dogs? Probably, but a good breeders objective should never be to sell more dogs.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand what you mean...a dog either meets the breed standard, or it doesn't, enhanced or not.

I absolutely agree...it has EVERY right to be shown and to earn it's titles, regardless to if it's a carrier of a fault or not. If it meets the standard, then it meets the standard. Point is, what good does that title really do if every generation after that does does NOT meet that same criteria? How would having a CH sire make any difference if bred to a very poor example of the breed?

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Exactly!

Is your name Chubby Checker? Cause you sure know how to twist!! ;)

I took my dancing lessons from the master. ;);)

Good point but let me ask you this.
What good does it do to Ch a regular yorkie with a faulted color, when the color is passed on to the offspring ???

There is no guarantee that any dog Championed will also produce offspring that meet or exceed that of the dog who was Championed.

We know the Parti gene can be taken recessive by breeding to another standard colored dog or be expressed if breed to another carrier.

Since showing is to evaluate breeding stock and a tool used by those who are looking to breed better dogs.
Isn't that the whole point to showing to producing dogs with sound structure, movement.. etc ???

I will post one more time in this thread and then I'm done....Those that tear apart those that "enhance" a dog and claim those are the bad people and then those of you who take a parti carrier in the ring "knowing" it's wrong are no different than those that enhance. Maybe if you stop tearing down people trying to justify breeding outside the standard maybe there wouldn't be any arguments.
Why do some need to find reasons to pick people apart just to try and prove a point when I've seen many posts in this thread saying how enhancing is cheating, lying and getting away with something and then it's ok to bring in a parti carrier so how is that not cheating, lying and getting away with something? I see no difference....
Just saying....

Those that breed Parti's are never going to agree with those of us that stand behind the standard of the Yorkshire Terrier and visa versa but I see no difference in enhancing for show and knowingly taking in a Parti carrier in the ring because we all know what will show up in our breeding program whether or not it has that championship title. This should be for the betterment of the breed and passion for the breed and not profit.

Whether you enhance or show a parti carrier you know you are showing something that will crop up in your breeding program. Can I live with a lighter yorkie in my breeding program? Yes! Can I live with a Parti carrier or Parti in my breeding program? NO! Lighter yorkies are accepted in the show ring but Parti's are not so there ya have it! From my perspective at least.

I could give away many secrets when is comes to enhancing your dog for the show ring. There can be many traits enhanced on a yorkie along with color. Anyone who shows would know this to be true! I have been in a ring with a member of the ytca showing a yorkie with a bad bite and obtaining their championship. I have been in a ring and seen ytca members showing a yorkie with bad patellas, low fronts, low rears, roach backs and obtaining their championship. What makes this right? The fact they are members of the ytca? When all the members of the ytca practice what they preach the breed will be better off. The last thing you should be worried about is a parti color issue.

There will never be any club where everyone follow the rules, unethical people want to join the YTCA for the wrong reasons, and many are good at "talking the talk." The YTCA is often criticized for being too fussy or elitist in allowing people to join; yet you have pointed out the problem, if one bad apple joins the whole group is vilified. As they say, "a chain is no better than it's weakest link, but that doesn't mean that all the links are weak. There are poor breeders among AKC breeders; does that make the AKC bad, or can you generalize anything from that knowledge? A person doesn't have to belong to the YTCA to have ethics; the ethics should come first, and no group or club will make you ethical.

If people are joining the "Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders" in order to sell pups, then in my opinion, they wouldn't be ethical; I believe we already have enough pets.

I think I've said the exact same thing many times over....not only YTCA but non YTCA members does that so you are preaching once again to the choir with me. The color issue is just a small part of the problem as I think, once again, I've said many times over :)

Where did I ever say that it did? :)

First off I will state I am not a member of the "Yorkshire Terrier Club Of Ethical Breeders" nor do I desire to be.

There is good and bad in everything, including the ytca. So my issue is this plain and simple. There are breeders in the ytca with little to no ethics, but they have the right to vote on the breed standard and what is shown in the ring. Which is a slap in the face to the breeders who are not members of the ytca, but breed for better health and conformations. When every members of the ytca can produce the medical testing done on their breeding stock and prove they are all breeding healthy stock, I will show them respect.

This is exactly why I stated the following:
Looking past whether or not breeding partis is "ethical", and strictly for hypothetical purposes...On an argument based on what may or may not be considered a 'fault',

The point I was trying to make, didn't have anything to do with whether or not the dogs were parti carriers or whether or not it's a desireable trait. I tried to word it in a way that would make that clear, but should have known any attempt to do so would be futile. I could have just as easily substituted that for size, ear set, bite, etc to try to make the same point==> Yes, I believe that your dog would have just as much right to be shown and CH--a dog deemed as a quality representation of the breed, per the breed standard. But I don't see how it would really "validate" one's breeding program if the dogs produced by that CH were something different.

What would it matter if you have a 4 lb CH sire if bred to a 10 lb female that resulted in 8 lb pups? How would that CH be validating one's program? I mentioned that I saw it done with people breeding the standard colored Yorkies all the time....so it cleary, as far as I concerned, was not about the Partis. It was about misrepresenting one's program by using the "CH lines" marketing ploy.