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-   -   Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/208797-yorkshire-terrier-club-ethical-hobby-breeders.html)

Elle 07-24-2010 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicgenie (Post 3212187)
I know Connie by reputation and she is one of the few US breeders I'd consider purchasing from. I have no idea how she feels about YTCEHB. What is the connection between Connie and fostering bitches, and what makes that disgusting? I know several YTCA members who do that. The young bitch, often a champion, goes off to live free of charge as a pampered pet with all vet expenses covered by the breeder, returning periodically during reproductive years to whelp and raise a litter of high quality puppies. Same arrangement applies to many champion males. What is disgusting about that? This sounds like everybody wins, especially the dog that doesn't spend the first few years of its life as part of the pack at the breeder's home. What's disgusting about that?

The way you're chasing me around on here looking for things to attack is exactly what put me off on YTCA. Most members may not be like you, but enough are that I don't want to be associated with it. You lick a few boots to obtain membership in YTCA and once in it's a lifetime pass that some take as license to be snotty and rude, sometimes downright destructive to the breed. Leave me alone.
I'm not chasing you. These comments were what sparked my replies. I'm not replying to anything other than a post, so it's not a person just what you are posting.

I didn't say anything about Connie. I merely tried to point out something. This is a mute point.

You are incorrect about members of YTCA fostering out bitches. Co/owning is not a fostering program. This is absurd. So is that club, but it's an old one to us. Guess you're just trying to spread the word. Someone else to help sell puppies.

yorkiegirl2 07-24-2010 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elle (Post 3212273)
I'm not chasing you. These comments were what sparked my replies. I'm not replying to anything other than a post, so it's not a person just what you are posting.

I didn't say anything about Connie. I merely tried to point out something. This is a mute point.

You are incorrect about members of YTCA fostering out bitches. Co/owning is not a fostering program. This is absurd. So is that club, but it's an old one to us. Guess you're just trying to spread the word. Someone else to help sell puppies.
So one club use the word Co owning where another club uses Fostering.
Explain what you think is the differance.

Why are you against any club who want to bring breeders together to help them breed better dogs ?
That is the whole point of forming clubs.

And as far as spreading the word on selling, what is the differance in this club having a breeders list when YTCA also has a breeders list to sell pups.
We also get quite a bit of selling going on here from YTCA members.
90% of the time when someone post about looking for a dog, one of those members will tell the person check out YTCA list.
What they fail to leave out when they are advertizing for their fellow club breeders, as in all clubs not every breeder on that list are ethical breeders.

Elle 07-24-2010 12:14 PM
It's pretty obvious that you gals have an extreme dislike, hate and no concern for the show world. I don't know who hurt your feelings so bad, but it's not true. I'm not sure how many are posting the comments bashing YTCA, the sport, what is shown and our ethics, unless you are showing you can't judge what is going on in the ring.

It's not always fair. Facey judging is rotten and really discouraging. But you are complaining about it as you try to justify another disservice to the breed. This isn't nice.

kpstoybox 07-24-2010 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3212103)
The one thing I find truly condescending is how that YTCA President Carl Yocum wrote an article and raved about the Biewer Terrier and the Biewer Terrier club, When in fact the Biewer and the Parti are the EXACT same dogs. Most of them came from the very same linage. The so called club he so profoundly approved of has had their president removed and has been banned from IABCA. So he condones people who lie and cheat and do whatever it takes to get ahead?
Does that set a good example of ethics for the YTCA?
That relationship was formed for the sole purpose to back the one group who claim their Biewers were not yorkies.

Debbie...has Mr. Yocum or anyone from the YTCA made any attempts to contact you for the info on your research and pedigree proof of the Biewer and the parti yorkie? It seems the parent club could at least form a committee to investigate the parti before slamming the door permantantly shut on a possible variety class. Does anyone know if the YTCA has put any kind of effort into an investigation of the parti yorkie and how, when or where it first appeared in the Yorkishire Terrier?

Brooklynn 07-24-2010 12:18 PM
To answer a question....When I first got started in showing and breeding my first bitch wasn't a champion but that was when I first got started and it was only ONE bitch. I dont' breed much and I won't breed a bitch typically unless she's a champion. I know some breeders won't CH a bitch because I've seen a bitch show GREAT in the ring until something happened to her as getting stepped on in the ring and was fearful of the ring and she only lacked 4 pts to finish but when she got stepped on she never would act right in the ring (tucking tail, peeing in the ring ) because she was fearful.
I do health testing on my breeding/showing dogs absolutely! Wouldn't have it any other way! I breed CH to CH in my program. Again, I don't breed much and haven't had a litter in almost 3 years but when I do breed all health tests are done and they both will be champions.
I hope that answers your questions :)

Donna

yorkiegirl2 07-24-2010 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elle (Post 3212350)
It's pretty obvious that you gals have an extreme dislike, hate and no concern for the show world. I don't know who hurt your feelings so bad, but it's not true. I'm not sure how many are posting the comments bashing YTCA, the sport, what is shown and our ethics, unless you are showing you can't judge what is going on in the ring.

It's not always fair. Facey judging is rotten and really discouraging. But you are complaining about it as you try to justify another disservice to the breed. This isn't nice.
You seen to be judging as well.
You are just a pet owner correct ??

Brooklynn 07-24-2010 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3212356)
To answer a question....When I first got started in showing and breeding my first bitch wasn't a champion but that was when I first got started and it was only ONE bitch. I dont' breed much and I won't breed a bitch typically unless she's a champion. I know some breeders won't CH a bitch because I've seen a bitch show GREAT in the ring until something happened to her as getting stepped on in the ring and was fearful of the ring and she only lacked 4 pts to finish but when she got stepped on she never would act right in the ring (tucking tail, peeing in the ring ) because she was fearful.
I do health testing on my breeding/showing dogs absolutely! Wouldn't have it any other way! I breed CH to CH in my program. Again, I don't breed much and haven't had a litter in almost 3 years but when I do breed all health tests are done and they both will be champions.
I hope that answers your questions :)

Donna
And I don't supply the pet market because I just don't breed that much and in fact I don't have a show/breeding bitch and haven't in almost a year. I breed for a show dog for myself and actually to be honest I'd rather be in the show ring vs. the whelping box. That is why I believe I have delevoped a great eye for a good representation of the breed. So if anyone says I'm in it for the money or pet market think again! I just don't breed that much so therefore I'm out way more money than most show breeders because I typically show instead of breed.

Brooklynn 07-24-2010 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3212375)
And I don't supply the pet market because I just don't breed that much and in fact I don't have a show/breeding bitch and haven't in almost a year. I breed for a show dog for myself and actually to be honest I'd rather be in the show ring vs. the whelping box. That is why I believe I have delevoped a great eye for a good representation of the breed. So if anyone says I'm in it for the money or pet market think again! I just don't breed that much so therefore I'm out way more money than most show breeders because I typically show instead of breed.
And I don't sell show dogs to anyone that I don't know on a personal basis. And if I ever have a pet quality yorkie to place in the future it will be spayed or neutered before leaving my house.

yorkielady06 07-24-2010 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3212356)
To answer a question....When I first got started in showing and breeding my first bitch wasn't a champion but that was when I first got started and it was only ONE bitch. I dont' breed much and I won't breed a bitch typically unless she's a champion. I know some breeders won't CH a bitch because I've seen a bitch show GREAT in the ring until something happened to her as getting stepped on in the ring and was fearful of the ring and she only lacked 4 pts to finish but when she got stepped on she never would act right in the ring (tucking tail, peeing in the ring ) because she was fearful.
I do health testing on my breeding/showing dogs absolutely! Wouldn't have it any other way! I breed CH to CH in my program. Again, I don't breed much and haven't had a litter in almost 3 years but when I do breed all health tests are done and they both will be champions.
I hope that answers your questions :)

Donna
Thank you Donna for answering my question about health screening. I am wondering about the rest of the exhibitors. And I give applause to you for doing that. What tests do you do?

The bitch that did not finish..was she bred?

yorkielady06 07-24-2010 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3212378)
And I don't sell show dogs to anyone that I don't know on a personal basis. And if I ever have a pet quality yorkie to place in the future it will be spayed or neutered before leaving my house.
I wrote a thread about this a few months back and a few people were not happy about that at all. I do this and have done it for a few years.

But if you do place one in a show home with someone you know personally they still can sell the offspring from that dog to whom they choose, correct? I have seen contracts from show breeders that state the dog must be championed prior to breeding and only be used on the said persons quality bitches, but the offspring can go to whomever this person chooses. I could hypothetically purchase one of those offspring, put him in the ring and champion him if he fits the bill. So if I am showing him and he is not a carrier, is that ok? Yes. But if I am showing him and intend to better the parti line then No?

YorkieRose 07-24-2010 01:51 PM
Breeding Yorkies certainly isn't dull is it...this color situation will never be settled...shoot, us standard color breeders can't even agree on what is blue and gold...all you have to do is look at a line-up in any ring and see the variety of shades...and each owner will swear it is correct blue...

I have gone around and around with a friend who looks at one of my BLACK girls and sees BLUE..she is not blue!! In order to achieve correct color, you need the ones who are light and dark in a breeding program...I do not think a Yorkie has to be a champion to breed it...where is that rule written? Many of the top producing bitches of all time were brood bitches..

yorkiegirl2 07-24-2010 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3212521)
Breeding Yorkies certainly isn't dull is it...this color situation will never be settled...shoot, us standard color breeders can't even agree on what is blue and gold...all you have to do is look at a line-up in any ring and see the variety of shades...and each owner will swear it is correct blue...

I have gone around and around with a friend who looks at one of my BLACK girls and sees BLUE..she is not blue!! In order to achieve correct color, you need the ones who are light and dark in a breeding program...I do not think a Yorkie has to be a champion to breed it...where is that rule written? Many of the top producing bitches of all time were brood bitches..
So true about the colors one see's in dogs.

Pat wasn't red legs used at one time to help retain the dark color and does anyone still use these dogs today ?

Mardelin 07-24-2010 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3212472)
I wrote a thread about this a few months back and a few people were not happy about that at all. I do this and have done it for a few years.

But if you do place one in a show home with someone you know personally they still can sell the offspring from that dog to whom they choose, correct? I have seen contracts from show breeders that state the dog must be championed prior to breeding and only be used on the said persons quality bitches, but the offspring can go to whomever this person chooses. I could hypothetically purchase one of those offspring, put him in the ring and champion him if he fits the bill. So if I am showing him and he is not a carrier, is that ok? Yes. But if I am showing him and intend to better the parti line then No?
No, most contracts now read that all offspring not kept by the owner are to be sold as pet only. And most are making this iron clad for 2 generations.

maggiesmom_2007 07-24-2010 03:16 PM
I know I have that as one of my stipulations. And you can be sure that if it isn't followed I will be starting my own repo business.

littlewhip 07-24-2010 03:31 PM
Very interesting thread :) Can someone please tell me why the Parquin line
are so expensive ? Just curious, is it because there are so few ? Thanks :)

Woogie Man 07-24-2010 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewhip (Post 3212671)
Very interesting thread :) Can someone please tell me why the Parquin line
are so expensive ? Just curious, is it because there are so few ? Thanks :)
It may be that they have become a "brand" and are being marketed as such.

Yorkshires Of Parquins - Yorkshire Terriers

Mardelin 07-24-2010 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewhip (Post 3212671)
Very interesting thread :) Can someone please tell me why the Parquin line
are so expensive ? Just curious, is it because there are so few ? Thanks :)
The original Kennel owner of the Parquin line has passed (killed in his home). Someone else who happened to have Parquin dogs is capitilizing on the name.

littlewhip 07-24-2010 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3212714)
The original Kennel owner of the Parquin line has passed (killed in his home). Someone else who happened to have Parquin dogs is capitilizing on the name.
How very sad ~ Thank you for the info. they are gorgeous dogs. I personally just never heard of them untill recently.

Mardelin 07-24-2010 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewhip (Post 3212726)
How very sad ~ Thank you for the info. they are gorgeous dogs. I personally just never heard of them untill recently.
Yes, it's that that he was murdered in his home and sad that someone else is captilizing on his hard work.

littlewhip 07-24-2010 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3212710)
It may be that they have become a "brand" and are being marketed as such.

Yorkshires Of Parquins - Yorkshire Terriers
Thank you for the link.

Elle 07-24-2010 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3212370)
You seen to be judging as well.
You are just a pet owner correct ??

Nope.

Micah my love 07-24-2010 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woogie Man (Post 3212710)
It may be that they have become a "brand" and are being marketed as such.

Yorkshires Of Parquins - Yorkshire Terriers

I couldn't help but notice that "My elegant paws" are listed here, you can also find them listed on Rip-off report

Breezeaway 07-24-2010 04:56 PM
2 Attachment(s)
And guess what, the owner of the Parquin line(Raymond Antonucci) had Parquin Parti colored yorkies. Fascinating isnt it.

YorkieRose 07-24-2010 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 3212533)
So true about the colors one see's in dogs.

Pat wasn't red legs used at one time to help retain the dark color and does anyone still use these dogs today ?
Remember Kim King who defended the red leg in her breeding program? She said a number of YTCA breeders told her they are needed...I have no clue. I do not like the look of them from a breeders eye view..I feel you can achieve good color without them..but do know a line can get far too light very easily...it can be the curse of a good silk coat. Some of mine have...and I still see some grandkids too light.

My Kate has held the best blue and gold color at 5 yrs..but her GGF was the color of my "black" girl...it is a constant battle to GET it right and KEEP it right...you never get to the point where they all come out correct...

I think the Yorkie breeders here need to be applauded for caring so much about the standard and protecting it instead of being critized for simply striving to do what we are suppose to do...vote and change the standard to include Parti's and we won't have this debate again...

YorkieRose 07-24-2010 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3212756)
And guess what, the owner of the Parquin line(Raymond Antonucci) had Parquin Parti colored yorkies. Fascinating isnt it.
Shut up. Pat...ignore this post..do not speak ill of the dead..!

Mardelin 07-24-2010 05:08 PM
[QUOTE=YorkieRose;3212768]Remember Kim King who defended the red leg in her breeding program? She said a number of YTCA breeders told her they are needed...I have no clue. I do not like the look of them from a breeders eye view..I feel you can achieve good color without them..but do know a line can get far too light very easily...it can be the curse of a good silk coat. Some of mine have...and I still see some grandkids too light.

My Kate has held the best blue and gold color at 5 yrs..but her GGF was the color of my "black" girl...it is a constant battle to GET it right and KEEP it right...you never get to the point where they all come out correct...

I think the Yorkie breeders here need to be applauded for caring so much about the standard and protecting it instead of being critized for simply striving to do what we are suppose to do...vote and change the standard to include Parti's and we won't have this debate again...[/QUOTE]

Pat,

We all know that this isn't going to happen. Can it? It is a possibility but, not probable.

Breezeaway 07-24-2010 05:08 PM
I just dont understand why you think the standard for the yorkshire has to be changed? The standard is still the same nothing would be changed, we just want a separate variety of the yorkshire terrier with its own standard for the parti color. It would not affect the original standard at all.

Mardelin 07-24-2010 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3212772)
Shut up. Pat...ignore this post..do not speak ill of the dead..!
Behave yourself Pat.

YorkieRose 07-24-2010 05:43 PM
[quote=Mardelin;3212773]
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3212768)
Remember Kim King who defended the red leg in her breeding program? She said a number of YTCA breeders told her they are needed...I have no clue. I do not like the look of them from a breeders eye view..I feel you can achieve good color without them..but do know a line can get far too light very easily...it can be the curse of a good silk coat. Some of mine have...and I still see some grandkids too light.

My Kate has held the best blue and gold color at 5 yrs..but her GGF was the color of my "black" girl...it is a constant battle to GET it right and KEEP it right...you never get to the point where they all come out correct...

I think the Yorkie breeders here need to be applauded for caring so much about the standard and protecting it instead of being critized for simply striving to do what we are suppose to do...vote and change the standard to include Parti's and we won't have this debate again...[/QUOTE]

Pat,

We all know that this isn't going to happen. Can it? It is a possibility but, not probable.
I, never say never..but never in my life time or 99% of the YTCA members who alive as of today.

Mardelin 07-24-2010 05:45 PM
[quote=YorkieRose;3212835]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3212773)

I, never say never..but never in my life time or 99% of the YTCA members who alive as of today.
I never say never either....But, knowing what is going on today, not in my lifetime either.


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