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gemy 07-21-2010 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3208700)
We have to work harder to produce good dogs, because we cannot buy them.

I can imagine how much work goes into showing, not to mention the time and expense. I go to dog show. I don't talk to the exhibitors because they seem so busy, and I feel intimidated.
Awh Jeanie, wait until after the ring time. They will be less busy then. I know it is intimidating, I felt the same way. But I screwed up my courage, and said hi. Your dog is just lovely, and I'm so in love with this breed, can you tell me.... insert appropriate question here.

If you can show your Yorkie that is another way. My first show with Razz was our Canadian National, talk about intimidated!. My breeder was there, and introduced me a bit. But she had to leave. All the Yorkie exhibitors were very friendly to me and chatted a bit as we were grooming for the ring. That can be another way to break the ice so to speak.

YorkieRose 07-21-2010 06:45 PM
I can dance around this or tell you straight up...you have Parti's and Biewers..most I know will not sell to you simply because of the fear of accidental breedings...doesn't matter how careful you are...please do not be offended it is what it is, you know that..

topknot 07-21-2010 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3208676)
Now I understand and agreed. But, you said that because you don't show you have to work harder. I'm still not understanding that. Because if one is exhibiting and put in years of study, training, traveling and championing their dogs, where is that easier? I think that is the more difficult road to take. And more expensive route.
I do not get it either. I know I am working so hard and always wraping coats, cleaning, getting ready for a show, training, sewing, making bows, bathing, cleaning, grooming, driving long distances, staying in hotels or fixing the RV, thinking and planning how to get to shows, etc...working hard to save up money. The people I know that show do not breed that often. Usually a litter every two years, sometimes once a year. They show because they have a passion and it is part of the working hard to prove quality.

Mardelin 07-21-2010 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 3208740)
I do not get it either. I know I am working so hard and always wraping coats, cleaning, getting ready for a show, training, sewing, making bows, bathing, cleaning, grooming, driving long distances, staying in hotels or fixing the RV, thinking and planning how to get to shows, etc...working hard to save up money. The people I know that show do not breed that often. Usually a litter every two years, sometimes once a year. They show because they have a passion and it is part of the working hard to prove quality.
And I did that years before I started showing, you'd have thought it would have disheartened me.

topknot 07-21-2010 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3208731)
Awh Jeanie, wait until after the ring time. They will be less busy then. I know it is intimidating, I felt the same way. But I screwed up my courage, and said hi. Your dog is just lovely, and I'm so in love with this breed, can you tell me.... insert appropriate question here.

If you can show your Yorkie that is another way. My first show with Razz was our Canadian National, talk about intimidated!. My breeder was there, and introduced me a bit. But she had to leave. All the Yorkie exhibitors were very friendly to me and chatted a bit as we were grooming for the ring. That can be another way to break the ice so to speak.
Yes, once the ice is broken and they see you more often at the shows they will talk more. It is like going to a play, park, etc... You see some people there and want to talk to them, but are hesitant. Then the more you go and see the same people, you can stike up a conversation and then over time can know one another better. This is why handling class and clubs are great too. It gives opportunity to slow down and actually be able to strike up a conversation.

topknot 07-21-2010 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3208753)
And I did that years before I started showing, you'd have thought it would have disheartened me.
Gopher? Yea, I was one too for awhile. I really enjoyed it, because I was learning more.

musiccitymom 07-21-2010 06:56 PM
Thank y'all so much for all the information! It is an exciting undertaking. As for liking or not minding competition... I have no problem with it whatsoever lol I coached competitive cheer for years, used to dealing with mothers who all believe their daughter should be in front and on top of every pyramid :p

JeanieK 07-21-2010 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3208736)
I can dance around this or tell you straight up...you have Parti's and Biewers..most I know will not sell to you simply because of the fear of accidental breedings...doesn't matter how careful you are...please do not be offended it is what it is, you know that..
Not offended at all. I appreciate you being straight forward. But I'm guessing they wouldn't sell to me anyway because I don't show.

Just out of curiosity, and not to start an argument, would they sell to someone who bred another breed of dogs, due to the risk of accidental breeding?

I have partis, no Biewers. they have what the YTCA describes as a color fault, a very obvious fault. What if I had beautiful traditional colored dogs that had a fault that was not so obvious, would they still not sell to me, or is it just the parti that they obect to.

JeanieK 07-21-2010 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 3208740)
I do not get it either. I know I am working so hard and always wraping coats, cleaning, getting ready for a show, training, sewing, making bows, bathing, cleaning, grooming, driving long distances, staying in hotels or fixing the RV, thinking and planning how to get to shows, etc...working hard to save up money. The people I know that show do not breed that often. Usually a litter every two years, sometimes once a year. They show because they have a passion and it is part of the working hard to prove quality.
I explained what I meant.

YorkieRose 07-21-2010 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3208762)
Not offended at all. I appreciate you being straight forward. But I'm guessing they wouldn't sell to me anyway because I don't show.

Just out of curiosity, and not to start an argument, would they sell to someone who bred another breed of dogs, due to the risk of accidental breeding?

I have partis, no Biewers. they have what the YTCA describes as a color fault, a very obvious fault. What if I had beautiful traditional colored dogs that had a fault that was not so obvious, would they still not sell to me, or is it just the parti that they obect to.
Many Yorkie breeders have another breed or breeds...I had 3 Doxies for yrs. No accidental breedings,, but if I had had one, there would be no way I could pass them off as AKC Yorkies or Doxies. They would have been placed as pets, end of story.
What is happening now is there are some Parti breeders obtaining well own lines and breeding with their AKC Parti's..resulting in long time bloodlines showing up on Parti peds..these puppies can be registered AKC and if there is a show quality standard color in the litter, it can be shown..where is the end? Done long enough and there will be no pure standard color lines.

You have lovely Parti's, if I wanted to go in that direction, I would dedicate myself to it and live with the consequences..I perfer the standard color, but can appreciate any nice dog.
I do not think there is the same stigma with Biewers..but I am not an expert.

Mardelin 07-21-2010 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3208828)
Many Yorkie breeders have another breed or breeds...I had 3 Doxies for yrs. No accidental breedings,, but if I had had one, there would be no way I could pass them off as AKC Yorkies or Doxies. They would have been placed as pets, end of story.
What is happening now is there are some Parti breeders obtaining well own lines and breeding with their AKC Parti's..resulting in long time bloodlines showing up on Parti peds..these puppies can be registered AKC and if there is a show quality standard color in the litter, it can be shown..where is the end? Done long enough and there will be no pure standard color lines.

You have lovely Parti's, if I wanted to go in that direction, I would dedicate myself to it and live with the consequences..I perfer the standard color, but can appreciate any nice dog.
I do not think there is the same stigma with Biewers..but I am not an expert.
This is being done now by some, attempting yp Champiion their parti carriers.

Mardelin 07-21-2010 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3208833)
This is being done now by some, attempting yp Champiion their parti carriers.
Oops! attempting to Champion their parti carriers.

topknot 07-22-2010 03:18 AM
It is all about protecting the breed. I fell in love with the yorkshire terrier over 30 years ago. I love the blue and gold coloring of the coat. Things have changed over the years and now the breed needs more protection than ever.

And the reason I was confused is because I could not see how you are working harder. We work just as hard, if not harder. You may be talking more about conflicting opinions you are faced with by others over time, since you have parties. We all make choices in our life and that was your choice. That's all.

JeanieK 07-22-2010 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3208843)
Oops! attempting to Champion their parti carriers.
But the champion parti carrier is where the partis came from in the first place. Ch Nikko's Rolls Royce Ashley is pretty much the founder of the partis.

Mardelin 07-22-2010 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3209026)
But the champion parti carrier is where the partis came from in the first place. Ch Nikko's Rolls Royce Ashley is pretty much the founder of the partis.
I've not completely delved into the parti process. There is a difference of Championing a dog and not knowing it is a parti carrier and knowing it is a parti carrier and purposely Championing it.

JeanieK 07-22-2010 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 3209002)
It is all about protecting the breed. I fell in love with the yorkshire terrier over 30 years ago. I love the blue and gold coloring of the coat. Things have changed over the years and now the breed needs more protection than ever.

And the reason I was confused is because I could not see how you are working harder. We work just as hard, if not harder. You may be talking more about conflicting opinions you are faced with by others over time, since you have parties. We all make choices in our life and that was your choice. That's all.
No you misunderstod what I said.

Those of us that y'all call BYBs, because we don't show, still want nice dogs, but we have to work harder to get them because we cannot start out with show quality breeding stock. We have to start from scratch and build our own quality dog, which takes years and years.

Most of us will never get there, but we enjoy the challenge.

The partis have come a long way toward being accpted in the last few years. I believe they will be in the AKC shows some day.

But I love the traditionals also. They are beautiful and I would love to have some really quality traditionals, but will just have to do it the hard way and build them from scratch.

Thank you for the compliment on my dogs. They might not be show dogs, but they are sound, healthy and of good temperament

Mardelin 07-22-2010 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3209034)
No you misunderstod what I said.

Those of us that y'all call BYBs, because we don't show, still want nice dogs, but we have to work harder to get them because we cannot start out with show quality breeding stock. We have to start from scratch and build our own quality dog, which takes years and years.

Most of us will never get there, but we enjoy the challenge.

The partis have come a long way toward being accpted in the last few years. I believe they will be in the AKC shows some day.

But I love the traditionals also. They are beautiful and I would love to have some really quality traditionals, but will just have to do it the hard way and build them from scratch.

Thank you for the compliment on my dogs. They might not be show dogs, but they are sound, healthy and of good temperament
Jeanie,

Building a line that one can eventually call one's own takes years, even with good breeding stock. It's not just putting two dogs together, it's knowing what is in the dog's background.

I know many that attempted to do this with dogs that they've obtained from either the back door, or from anyone that would sell them on an open registration. Only to discover, after years of breeding that they have to scrap their program and start all over again.

chachi 07-22-2010 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3209034)
No you misunderstod what I said.

Those of us that y'all call BYBs, because we don't show, still want nice dogs, but we have to work harder to get them because we cannot start out with show quality breeding stock. We have to start from scratch and build our own quality dog, which takes years and years.

Most of us will never get there, but we enjoy the challenge.

The partis have come a long way toward being accpted in the last few years. I believe they will be in the AKC shows some day.

But I love the traditionals also. They are beautiful and I would love to have some really quality traditionals, but will just have to do it the hard way and build them from scratch.

Thank you for the compliment on my dogs. They might not be show dogs, but they are sound, healthy and of good temperament
But even if you start from scratch how do you know the dogs you are breeding are a good foundation to start with when they arent evaluated by a professional

JeanieK 07-22-2010 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3209048)
Jeanie,

Building a line that one can eventually call one's own takes years, even with good breeding stock. It's not just putting two dogs together, it's knowing what is in the dog's background.

I know many that attempted to do this with dogs that they've obtained from either the back door, or from anyone that would sell them on an open registration. Only to discover, after years of breeding that they have to scrap their program and start all over again.
That is why I'm saying it's a lot more work for us. But we love the challenge of doing it. It doesn't mean that we just put two dogs together. We do have a goal in mind. But if we want to breed but can't buy quality stock we have to work harder.

Showing is not even an option for me, at this time, possibly never. It's not because I don't want to., Altholugh I don't think I would ever really enjoy it, I would make the effort, if it were an option.

kpstoybox 07-22-2010 06:55 AM
[QUOTE=Mardelin;3209030]I've not completely delved into the parti process. There is a difference of Championing a dog and not knowing it is a parti carrier and knowing it is a parti carrier and purposely Championing it.[/QUOTE]

So...what you are saying is...

We should not show and possibly Champion a dog who meets the standard in terms of color and conformation...because we know it can one day produce a parti if bred to another carrier?

We are told at every turn on this board to get out there...show your dog, prove his or her's worth to be bred. Oh...but not you parti people. You are not allowed to show your dogs. Not even the ones who meet the standard. Well then...we can't win for losing...can we? LOL

Ringo1 07-22-2010 07:17 AM
Forgive my ignorance but I don't understand the politics of it all. Isn't there room for both standard yorkie breeders and parti colored breeders? Can breeders who breed parti colored yorkies not participate in the show ring?

Some folks love the traditional black/tan and others love the parti colored yorkies.

I like the traditional colored but the more photos I see - love the parti too. I am not a breeder, or in the show ring or anything like that.

I just love beautiful pets ~ like most folks who aren't professional breeders or competing in the show ring, etc.

BamaFan121s 07-22-2010 07:20 AM
[quote=kpstoybox;3209137]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3209030)
I've not completely delved into the parti process. There is a difference of Championing a dog and not knowing it is a parti carrier and knowing it is a parti carrier and purposely Championing it.[/QUOTE]

So...what you are saying is...

We should not show and possibly Champion a dog who meets the standard in terms of color and conformation...because we know it can one day produce a parti if bred to another carrier?

We are told at every turn on this board to get out there...show your dog, prove his or her's worth to be bred. Oh...but not you parti people. You are not allowed to show your dogs. Not even the ones who meet the standard. Well then...we can't win for losing...can we? LOL
Looking past whether or not breeding partis is "ethical", and strictly for hypothetical purposes...On an argument based on what may or may not be considered a 'fault', how would it be any different than Championing a dog that may not have LS, but who may be a carrier? True, the dog may have a CH title, may make breedings more marketable, but what does it really matter if the dogs he produces have LS. Same concept, I suppose. Sure, the dog may not actually be a Parti, the CH title may make the pups more marketable, but what would it matter if the dogs produced are Parti and non standard.

That's kind of what I take the statment to mean.

BamaFan121s 07-22-2010 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 (Post 3209160)
Forgive my ignorance but I don't understand the politics of it all. Isn't there room for both standard yorkie breeders and parti colored breeders? Can breeders who breed parti colored yorkies not participate in the show ring?
Don't feel bad. If you don't understand the politics, then that just means you fit in with most of the rest of us. :p To answer your question, Partis are disqualified from the show ring in AKC events, but they have recently been allowed in other, non AKC venues. I'm not sure what the results have been there...never have seen it discusses other than to be stated that it was now allowed. :)

JeanieK 07-22-2010 07:27 AM
[quote=kpstoybox;3209137]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3209030)
I've not completely delved into the parti process. There is a difference of Championing a dog and not knowing it is a parti carrier and knowing it is a parti carrier and purposely Championing it.[/QUOTE]

So...what you are saying is...

We should not show and possibly Champion a dog who meets the standard in terms of color and conformation...because we know it can one day produce a parti if bred to another carrier?

We are told at every turn on this board to get out there...show your dog, prove his or her's worth to be bred. Oh...but not you parti people. You are not allowed to show your dogs. Not even the ones who meet the standard. Well then...we can't win for losing...can we? LOL
:thumbup::thumbup:

Seems a bit like a conspiracy doesn't it.
They won't sell to us and we are not supposed to make our own. So we just ride it out, do the best we can and in time it will all come together.

Mardelin 07-22-2010 07:29 AM
[quote=BamaFan121s;3209163]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3209137)

Looking past whether or not breeding partis is "ethical", and strictly for hypothetical purposes...On an argument based on what may or may not be considered a 'fault', how would it be any different than Championing a dog that may not have LS, but who may be a carrier? True, the dog may have a CH title, may make breedings more marketable, but what does it really matter if the dogs he produces have LS. Same concept, I suppose. Sure, the dog may not actually be a Parti, the CH title may make the pups more marketable, but what would it matter if the dogs produced are Parti and non standard.

That's kind of what I take the statment to mean.
Not the same thing. Since LS has no genetic marker to determine where a dog is a carrier, and bile acids can only determine that the dog does not have LS. The dogs that are 'known' by parti breeders to be parti carriers are being Championed.

JeanieK 07-22-2010 07:31 AM
[quote=BamaFan121s;3209163]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3209137)

Looking past whether or not breeding partis is "ethical", and strictly for hypothetical purposes...On an argument based on what may or may not be considered a 'fault', how would it be any different than Championing a dog that may not have LS, but who may be a carrier? True, the dog may have a CH title, may make breedings more marketable, but what does it really matter if the dogs he produces have LS. Same concept, I suppose. Sure, the dog may not actually be a Parti, the CH title may make the pups more marketable, but what would it matter if the dogs produced are Parti and non standard.

That's kind of what I take the statment to mean.
Ah yes but LS is not a visible fault, so those dogs can be championed. And probably have been championed.

BamaFan121s 07-22-2010 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3209173)
Not the same thing. Since LS has no genetic marker to determine where a dog is a carrier, and bile acids can only determine that the dog does not have LS. The dogs that are 'known' by parti breeders to be parti carriers are being Championed.
Eh, poor example used spur of the moment. Point being, hypothetically if the dog being CH has a fault, what validity does the title really hold if the fault is going to show up in the resulting offspring?
Than again, maybe I'm just missing the point altogether.

Nancy1999 07-22-2010 07:35 AM
In my opinion, it depends more on what you're goals are, I've seen some parti breeders who advertise "champion background" and similar terminology and I believe that this is wrong. The purpose of showing is not so that you can raise your prices or add new marketing words to your ads. Some breeders of standard yorkies do this as well, so I don't wish to single out parti breeders, but the word champion should not be in your advertising. After all, this is considered a major fault and one that's very difficult to eliminate, so of course, breeders are worried that this could become a trait in even more lines. I guess this is where honesty and integrity come into play.

BamaFan121s 07-22-2010 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3209176)
Ah yes but LS is not a visible fault, so those dogs can be championed. And probably have been championed.
Precisely. A carried parti gene is not visible either...so those dogs could be championed in the same fashion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3209183)
Some breeders of standard yorkies do this as well, so I don't wish to single out parti breeders, but the word champion should not be in your advertising.
You're not even kidding. I see that crap ALL THE TIME, even on here. Only to find out that the "champion" was one dog, 4 or 5 generations back. Very misleading, but boy it sure sounds nice.

BamaFan121s 07-22-2010 07:40 AM
Just curious, on another point that I brought up earlier. Now that Partis are being allowed into some show venues, what have the results of that been? Are there a good number being entered? Etc...


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