Gooy discharge and now blood????? HELP

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Shasha

I agree, my girls have been through alot, especially Stella.... who killed 4 of marnies pups.... she is not an AGGRESSIVE dog at all towards humans,children other dogs.......she is the most gentlest and kind dog you would ever meet.... so the tragedy i had with her doing what she did to Marnies pups has really shocked me and upset me. You dont know these things until it actually happens to you.... NO WAY i would have bred Stella knowing she had a killer instinct in her.......so dont critasize me, im upset as it is!

Yea but you knew she was capable of it because you said she did it before

[manolos mom]

It's called Animal Instinct. An animal Will go after another mom's Young and kill them. I have watched many animal shows growing up. Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom 101

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by Shasha

I agree, my girls have been through alot, especially Stella.... who killed 4 of marnies pups.... she is not an AGGRESSIVE dog at all towards humans,children other dogs.......she is the most gentlest and kind dog you would ever meet.... so the tragedy i had with her doing what she did to Marnies pups has really shocked me and upset me. You dont know these things until it actually happens to you.... NO WAY i would have bred Stella knowing she had a killer instinct in her.......so dont critasize me, im upset as it is!

But you said this was the 2nd time Stella had done it. On your first post of the Tragedy thread:

Originally Posted by Shasha

I cant beleive wat has happened with my Yorkie Mums. Stella had the cesarian with 2 surviving pups 10 days premature still holding on..... Marnie had 6 pups... due on time, all were doing extremely well..... THEN Marnie wanted to go for a wee..... came down the stairs so i let her out in the garden for a few mins and she went back up stairs.... i went up a few mins after her and found 4 of her pups DEAD!... puncture wounds on the neck.... Stella done it....(i forgot to shut Marnies door)..im heartbroken and feel so bad that i didnt go up and shut the door thinking she would be only a few mins in the garden which Marnie was.........
I spoke to the vet and he asked me if Stella had done this before and i said yes last year with one of Maisey pups... he said if she did it once she would always do it.... she is psychotic???.......
Also....Marnie has lots of milk.... do you think i could try to put Stellas pups on to Marnie for milk and take the pups off Stella altogether as she doesnot seem to be doing well with them. If so how would i go about doing it? What do you think.

[Shasha]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

But you said this was the 2nd time Stella had done it. On your first post of the Tragedy thread:

yes i know.... i should have taken the incident and said then 'she will do it again'.... but i couldnt beleive she had done it in the first place, so gave her a second chance....... so yes...its my fault.... happy now!

[Shasha]

Hi... just come back from the vets and he has diagnosed Stella having chylothorax (leakage from the thoracic ductor one of the main lympathic vessells) and not pnemonia!... she has been in vets all day and he had her under anthestic took xrays and also drained most of the fluid/pus.
she is home now,breathing a lot better,has eaten a little and drank. thank god....ive been reading about this condition onlineand its looking very serious indeed.
Has anyone else every had this rare condition in their dogs?
No wonder she has been soooo ill with all these inefections......
and it looks as if the ceasarean operation from which she got an infection from,has brought this rare condition on....my poor poor stella.....
as if she hasnt been through enough.x

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Shasha

yes i know.... i should have taken the incident and said then 'she will do it again'.... but i couldnt beleive she had done it in the first place, so gave her a second chance....... so yes...its my fault.... happy now!

Let me try to explain something, and try to not take it personally, hopefully you might learn something. If you are a breeder, or even a pet owner, you need to understand a dog's behavior. When they display aggressive tendencies, it's not ok to give them a second chance. Sure you can keep them as a pet, but they must not be bred, and they must never be around vulnerable dogs or children. The dog owner is responsible for EVERYTHING the dog does, it's NEVER the dogs fault. They are animals, they don't know better, they can't pick up a book, or go online to learn something. While you can train a dog to be less aggressive, you still must never give the OPORTUNITY to make a mistake. So of course people are blaming you for for the death of the puppies, you say that you are an experienced breeder, but that usually means, that you have studied breeding and dog behavior, not that you've owned dogs that have gotten pregnant. You are not alone, most breeders don't bother studying up before breeding, but for dog lovers, it's very frustrating to read about stories such as yours. I really hope you will try to understand where we are all coming from, and consider hanging up your breeding hat, or actually start studying about breeding before you get a breeding pair.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Let me try to explain something, and try to not take it personally, hopefully you might learn something. If you are a breeder, or even a pet owner, you need to understand a dog's behavior. When they display aggressive tendencies, it's not ok to give them a second chance. Sure you can keep them as a pet, but they must not be bred, and they must never be around vulnerable dogs or children. The dog owner is responsible for EVERYTHING the dog does, it's NEVER the dogs fault. They are animals, they don't know better, they can't pick up a book, or go online to learn something. While you can train a dog to be less aggressive, you still must never give the OPORTUNITY to make a mistake. So of course people are blaming you for for the death of the puppies, you say that you are an experienced breeder, but that usually means, that you have studied breeding and dog behavior, not that you've owned dogs that have gotten pregnant. You are not alone, most breeders don't bother studying up before breeding, but for dog lovers, it's very frustrating to read about stories such as yours. I really hope you will try to understand where we are all coming from, and consider hanging up your breeding hat, or actually start studying about breeding before you get a breeding pair.

Totally agree.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Let me try to explain something, and try to not take it personally, hopefully you might learn something. If you are a breeder, or even a pet owner, you need to understand a dog's behavior. When they display aggressive tendencies, it's not ok to give them a second chance. Sure you can keep them as a pet, but they must not be bred, and they must never be around vulnerable dogs or children. The dog owner is responsible for EVERYTHING the dog does, it's NEVER the dogs fault. They are animals, they don't know better, they can't pick up a book, or go online to learn something. While you can train a dog to be less aggressive, you still must never give the OPORTUNITY to make a mistake. So of course people are blaming you for for the death of the puppies, you say that you are an experienced breeder, but that usually means, that you have studied breeding and dog behavior, not that you've owned dogs that have gotten pregnant. You are not alone, most breeders don't bother studying up before breeding, but for dog lovers, it's very frustrating to read about stories such as yours. I really hope you will try to understand where we are all coming from, and consider hanging up your breeding hat, or actually start studying about breeding before you get a breeding pair.

Wonderful post, Nancy. I couldn't agree more. It is so very basic to !00% ensure the safety of these vulnerable babies. An oversight such as this just should never have happened.

[Shasha]

well we all learn by our own mistakes... so none of you who have commented have ever had a tradgedy in all the years you have been breeding...????? ive noted your comments......i dont need to hang my hat up thank you very much...i am experienced and from this experience its something new learned....
.... sadly, i dont think Stella is going to pull through this, she is bad again and has had more fluid drained today but the vet doesnt give her much hope... so obviously im feeling really upset that im going to loose one of my girls.
Honey her pup is doing well and thriving.....x

[Marilize]

I have just read this whole thread and I am very sorry to hear about everything that you have gone through! I feel so bad for all the puppies and Stella and Marnie too!

I agree with all the advice that you have been given about breeding and your current situation, but don't take offense to this. If you are on the right side of breeding, you will understand why you are getting the comments you do. I haven't read the other thread and I don't know everything that has been said to you, but in this thread the people have been very caring and supportive.

If you have learned from the situation that's wonderful, but if you aren't going to take steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again, it doesn't mean anything. If a person knows the truth and they chose to ignore it, they are ignorant and I'm sure you aren't.

If you really want to breed, buy the books, get a good mentor, get the show dogs (breeding quality) and do it properly. Do it to improve the breed and to leave an outstanding line of Yorkshire Terriers. Otherwise it's not worth it for all the money in the world.

[laci32]

Originally Posted by Shasha

yes i know.... i should have taken the incident and said then 'she will do it again'.... but i couldnt beleive she had done it in the first place, so gave her a second chance....... so yes...its my fault.... happy now!

Sorry but 1) I wouldn't have bred her again , 2) they would not have been allowed with each others pups at such a young age . If she had done this before I would have done everything I could have to protect the other Mom's babies from her every doing it again . Someone kills your baby and you give them a second chance to do it again ? . Now I am not saying all this to hurt you . It's my reaction to shock and hopefuly there wont be a next time .

[Shasha]

Originally Posted by Marilize

I have just read this whole thread and I am very sorry to hear about everything that you have gone through! I feel so bad for all the puppies and Stella and Marnie too!

I agree with all the advice that you have been given about breeding and your current situation, but don't take offense to this. If you are on the right side of breeding, you will understand why you are getting the comments you do. I haven't read the other thread and I don't know everything that has been said to you, but in this thread the people have been very caring and supportive.

If you have learned from the situation that's wonderful, but if you aren't going to take steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again, it doesn't mean anything. If a person knows the truth and they chose to ignore it, they are ignorant and I'm sure you aren't.

If you really want to breed, buy the books, get a good mentor, get the show dogs (breeding quality) and do it properly. Do it to improve the breed and to leave an outstanding line of Yorkshire Terriers. Otherwise it's not worth it for all the money in the world.

thanks....ive been breeding over 10 years and never had a problem... until now..x

[Woogie Man]

Shasha, your situation is heartbreaking on so many levels. I do hope the loss of the pups is a hard lesson very well learned for you. As breeders, our actions (or inactions) truly do make the difference between life and death. Any criticisms directed at you over the loss of the pups is because we are all horrified at what happened and can picture a very gruesome scene. No, it is not Stella's fault and the simple act of closing a door would have prevented this. I take no joy in pointing this out and grieve for the loss of your babies, as I'm sure many do.

I have lost babies before, as many breeders have, despite our best efforts. It is because we know how it feels to lose one of these angels that we feel so strongly about the circumstances of your babies. If it hurts your feelings, I'm sorry....but some things just can't be sugar-coated.

All that being said, I'm very sorry to hear of what you're going through with Stella. You and she will both be in my prayers at this very trying time.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Shasha

well we all learn by our own mistakes... so none of you who have commented have ever had a tradgedy in all the years you have been breeding...????? ive noted your comments......i dont need to hang my hat up thank you very much...i am experienced and from this experience its something new learned....
.... sadly, i dont think Stella is going to pull through this, she is bad again and has had more fluid drained today but the vet doesnt give her much hope... so obviously im feeling really upset that im going to loose one of my girls.
Honey her pup is doing well and thriving.....x

Sadly, about 8 years ago I lost a couple of puppies when two moms got in a fight over the puppies. In your case, I don't know if the momma of the pups that were killed was present when her pups were killed but in the case of mine getting killed, both momma bitches were present. I never heard anything after I stepped out of the room but I came back to two dead pups with puncture wounds. What happens is that one momma will want the other mommas pups and when one momma picks up the other mommas pups and tries to carry them away the momma naturally will try to grab the puppy out of the mouth of the other momma. It does not necessarily mean that one is a killer unless you know the one that killed the pups was alone with them when the incident happened. I know a lady that witnessed two poms pull a baby apart when one tried to steal a pup from the other. It is very sad but it does happen. When it happened to me the pups were nearly two weeks old and I had been rearranging the pens and I stepped out for just a minute to get something and I forgot to close the pens up. I was mad, angry and heart broken but I could not blame the mommas, it was my fault. Since then I take many precautions to make sure it does not happen again.

There are so many things that can happen with these little babies and sadly, sometimes lessons are learned the hard way. I know you feel like you are getting picked on but in reality, people are just trying to stress to you that it is our responsibility to do all we can to protect our mommas and their babies. Perhaps someone new to breeding will read this thread and learn from it so they won't make the same mistake we did. Tragedy can strike in a heartbeat so we all need to be prepared and think ahead. I am glad your momma's babies are doing well and I do pray that the momma will be okay.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by chachi

Yea but you knew she was capable of it because you said she did it before

I have to say I agree - I'd have not ever taken a chance and I hope your mom makes it ....the posts I've read are just tragic and prayers to your puppies and the mom. This is one of the hardest threads from one person I've seen in a long time....