What Not to Say to Your Breeder

[gemy]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

You are so right on that. Medical Bills for Carlo is now aproaching $20,000, and I am guessing that Maxines bills over the years are around $5,000. That is around $25,000 for 2 dogs that combined cost around $3500. That does not inclufe a $7,000 fence, average food bills of around $150 a month, supplements, toys, and the initial damage casued by teething, and maxines peeing on Oriental and wool rugs to this day, and she is housebroken. Some idiots still tell me I should have put Carlo down. If one more person says it, I may just put them down.

Steve they are just idiotsl no accounting for brains. You will and will do all your best for Carlo, and will know when it is time.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by gemy

Mary I hear you! And I do spend hours on the phone educating about BRT;s. But still while there might be a flashing alarm sign in my head,m if the first question is about cost, and btw BRT's sell for $2500 and up for even a pet, I am much more concerned about who these people are, will they train, will they do the best as pet parents for this breed. And I do this education as well. Maybe because of the rare nature of my breed, I'm more used to people asking about the cost. Usally for most oncethey hear the cost, they go away. The danger for me, is if they say, umm okay when can I get one? That shivers me timbers. I've only bred once, and had the waiting list for Magic's pups. All folks I have met, who filled out the questionnaire, who are still in contact with me.

This is why I never confirm on initial contact whether I will or have pups available. I thoroughly screen before revealing anything. Until a potential new family answers a few questions the conversation doesn't proceed forward. I look for key words/phrases to inform me if the person requires education, looking for a bargain or even continue with the conversation. I don't do questionaires. I have a couple of long conversations, then a meet and greet. If we get to the point of a pup; they're then invited to the home to meet the pups. But, by that time we've established a firm relationship of trust. I still contact with my families.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

You are so right on that. Medical Bills for Carlo is now aproaching $20,000, and I am guessing that Maxines bills over the years are around $5,000. That is around $25,000 for 2 dogs that combined cost around $3500. That does not inclufe a $7,000 fence, average food bills of around $150 a month, supplements, toys, and the initial damage casued by teething, and maxines peeing on Oriental and wool rugs to this day, and she is housebroken. Some idiots still tell me I should have put Carlo down. If one more person says it, I may just put them down.

Some people just don't understand the love and bond we have with our animals.

My opinion is; since they don't pay your bills they don't have right to make your decisions.

[ChocoMilk]

Originally Posted by gemy

In main I agree with your post. How-ever less champion "lines". less champions in the breeding pair, is not a solution for a Yorkie more reasonably priced for your budget. That solution is found in rescues, rehomes, etc.

If You Buy A Purebred dog, expect to Pay Top Dollar1 for it; and conversely expect for CH as breeding dam n sire, all the Health tests dog, a pup a prime example of the breed, with the best of health and the best of Health guarantee.

I do not support the idea, well if you only want a "Pet" it doesnt' matter about Ch's or health tests or some many other things. There is a right and wrong way to do things; quite simple really.

If you want a purebred, buy from reputable show breeders. Those that health test their pups, and stand behind them all the way. They will and should be there for you and your pup for the life of their pup. Mine are!

I put it in quotes because I couldn't think on top of my head to what constitutes a higher priced yorkie from one reputable breeder to another. You are probably right and I wasn't trying to be factual here in how to find the healthiest yorkie. I apologize if I came off as if it was a fact. I was just trying to make a point though, that we should HELP uneducated buyers instead of turning your back on them and the confused buyer going straight to the pet shop.

I understand that none of you are trying to "SELL" your beloved dogs. I was suggesting that if an uneducated buyer came to you and said, how much are your yorkies? How about: "They are my babies! I can't just "sell" them to you without us first getting to know each other! (in a joking manner) May I ask you few questions? How well do you know about yorkies? How did you hear of us?"
instead of turning your back on someone and thinking they are no good because money is part of what you assume their priorities are. This was the whole point of my last few replies.

and I'm sure you know this too: you may not have really cared or known before owning a pet, but AFTER owning one you realize just how priceless they are. so just give these buyers time: once they bring your puppies home from a reputable breeder, they will become attached to them and won't trade them for anything in the world. I'm just saying, you can't expect uneducated buyers to know what YOU are feeling towards your babies just yet because they never seen them, or they never owned one before. They aren't connected to their future pets because they aren't connected like how mother is to a baby. They could be just as great dog owners but because they aren't connected, they probably do not have much feeling towards your baby as you do, thus the business "Monetary" talk. While it is not the most important, some people, pre-attachment to their pups, think it is as important.

I'd like to just add one more thing: I know owning a dog is a lot more expensive than their actual cost obviously, but from my experience owning one was never a problem. Because they are irreplaceable and priceless to me now, I could always forgo a nice dinner to save up for their vet fees/cute clothes and it wouldn't bother me. However, I think it is weird for anyone to say that a buyer should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that they dont even know yet, because why would they? they could just turn to a pet shop instead then. This is, of course, just a difference in opinion but this is why I wanted the breeders to allow them time to learn instead of shutting out on them and labeling them as "unsuitable buyers".

Hope this helps.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

I put it in quotes because I couldn't think on top of my head to what constitutes a higher priced yorkie from one reputable breeder to another. You are probably right and I wasn't trying to be factual here in how to find the healthiest yorkie. I apologize if I came off as if it was a fact. I was just trying to make a point though, that we should HELP uneducated buyers instead of turning your back on them and the confused buyer going straight to the pet shop.

I understand that none of you are trying to "SELL" your beloved dogs. I was suggesting that if an uneducated buyer came to you and said, how much are your yorkies? How about: "They are my babies! I can't just "sell" them to you without us first getting to know each other! (in a joking manner) May I ask you few questions? How well do you know about yorkies? How did you hear of us?"
instead of turning your back on someone and thinking they are no good because money is part of what you assume their priorities are. This was the whole point of my last few replies.

and I'm sure you know this too: you may not have really cared or known before owning a pet, but AFTER owning one you realize just how priceless they are. so just give these buyers time: once they bring your puppies home from a reputable breeder, they will become attached to them and won't trade them for anything in the world. I'm just saying, you can't expect uneducated buyers to know what YOU are feeling towards your babies just yet because they never seen them, or they never owned one before. They aren't connected to their future pets because they aren't connected like how mother is to a baby. They could be just as great dog owners but because they aren't connected, they probably do not have much feeling towards your baby as you do, thus the business "Monetary" talk. While it is not the most important, some people, pre-attachment to their pups, think it is as important.

I'd like to just add one more thing: I know owning a dog is a lot more expensive than their actual cost obviously, but from my experience owning one was never a problem. Because they are irreplaceable and priceless to me now, I could always forgo a nice dinner to save up for their vet fees/cute clothes and it wouldn't bother me. However, it's unreasonable for anyone to really say that I should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that I dont even know yet, thus going to a pet shop instead if I were an uneducated buyer. This is, of course, just a difference in opinion but this is how I feel with uneducated buyers, and that is the reason why I wanted the breeders to allow them time to learn instead of shutting out on them and labeling them as "unsuitable buyers".

Hope this helps.

Thanks for clearing up your statements. However, knowing the history of each of us within this conversation you'd know that we have a passion for the breed and really do know the ins and outs of interviewing and educating families.

Not so long ago I had a phone call from a lady wanting a yorkie. We a long conversation and within the conversation she informed me what her budget was, never once did I tell her what my yorkies went for. Without shutting her down I suggested that she contact rescue and/or shelter (gave her the info . A couple of months later I received a lovely letter from her informing me that she had rescued sisters and thanking me for my time and education, since it led her to those to loving little dogs.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

I'd like to just add one more thing: I know owning a dog is a lot more expensive than their actual cost obviously, but from my experience owning one was never a problem. Because they are irreplaceable and priceless to me now, I could always forgo a nice dinner to save up for their vet fees/cute clothes and it wouldn't bother me. However, I think it is weird for anyone to say that a buyer should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that they dont even know yet, because why would they? they could just turn to a pet shop instead then. This is, of course, just a difference in opinion but this is why I wanted the breeders to allow them time to learn instead of shutting out on them and labeling them as "unsuitable buyers".

Hope this helps.

Even if someone isn't attached to a particular puppy, if they are attached to the idea of owning a pet they will make the adjustments necessary (including saving for one) in preparation for it. Saying "why should they?" is akin to saying that one shouldn't save up for a house or a car since they don't have one yet, therefore they aren't "attached". Pet shops, unfortunately, pander to the impulse buyers among us; no wait, a few bucks down and a convenient payment plan... Impulse buys are a big part of the reason so many dogs end up in shelters.

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

...
I'd like to just add one more thing: I know owning a dog is a lot more expensive than their actual cost obviously, but from my experience owning one was never a problem. Because they are irreplaceable and priceless to me now, I could always forgo a nice dinner to save up for their vet fees/cute clothes and it wouldn't bother me. However, I think it is weird for anyone to say that a buyer should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that they dont even know yet, because why would they? they could just turn to a pet shop instead then.
...

i've been quietly following this thread since it began (when it was a novel wee thread) but had to add something here...
i am very new to breeding (especailly compared to the exhibitor/breeders in this thread) and even i have learned already how to spot good and bad potential homes... it is usually pretty obvious on the 1st conversation, but i have been fooled by some right up until a few minutes before they leave my house on the first visit!
but from both perspectives, the comment quoted is just (imo) simply incorrect. i am planning on buying a puppy (its actually a standard poodle, but the same rules apply) from one of the best breed kennels in the uk (or very possibly even france). i will be wanting to buy Her in about 3 or so YEARS time- and am already taking into account all the costs.
so where the money is concerned, there is firstly, the price of the puppy, then the price of flying over to met the breeder and and with luck have her be happy i want one of her babies, then there is the price of going Back over to again (by plane or boat) and then the return trip via boat with little Kimber (yes, i have her name ready and waiting), not to mention all her classes, vet costs, grooming, food bills and everything else that goes with having another dog.
i would love to have her now, but i know that is unrealistic of me... i have a litter due in 2 months and am therefore currently adding to my vet fund account to cover it. even without having them due, i wouldnt want to run out to the 1st 'breeder' i found and buy the puppy in my current price range-
after all, anything worth having is well worth saving for! isn't it?

[ChocoMilk]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Even if someone isn't attached to a particular puppy, if they are attached to the idea of owning a pet they will make the adjustments necessary (including saving for one) in preparation for it. Saying "why should they?" is akin to saying that one shouldn't save up for a house or a car since they don't have one yet, therefore they aren't "attached". Pet shops, unfortunately, pander to the impulse buyers among us; no wait, a few bucks down and a convenient payment plan... Impulse buys are a big part of the reason so many dogs end up in shelters.

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying. To an uneducated buyer, a cute dog is a cute... dog. If they are attached to the idea of owning a pet, they will of course make adjustments and will probably save up for whichever one they can get first: BYB or a reputable breeder. This is because they aren't attached to neither yet, so they are able to make "rational" decisions based on a monetary factor. and again, to uneducated buyers a dog is a dog. Thus the reason why you can't really expect that people will save up for a reputable breeder dog when they can't tell the difference yet. and a lot of times pet store dogs are just as healthy so they are not aware of what other detrimental factors they are contributing to when they purchase their puppies from pet stores.

Let's just say most of the people I know got their first dogs from first-time breeders or pet shops because they just wanted a dog. Now, they are in love with them and think of them as more than just a pet. They've become their babies. but before truly owning one, dogs are probably nothing more than a nice lexus or a house they wish to get as you have given an example of, or a rabbit, turtle, etc, thus the "how much?" question. and I was just stating that breeders shouldn't be so offended or think they are unsuitable because it isn't buyer's actual birth child and they dont feel attachment just yet, although they will soon be shortly after owning one.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

I think it is weird for anyone to say that a buyer should forgo dinners/shopping to save up for a dog that they dont even know yet, because why would they?

Isn't that the kind of thing that most people do to save up for something they want? Cut back where they can if needed?

[ChocoMilk]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

i've been quietly following this thread since it began (when it was a novel wee thread) but had to add something here...
i am very new to breeding (especailly compared to the exhibitor/breeders in this thread) and even i have learned already how to spot good and bad potential homes... it is usually pretty obvious on the 1st conversation, but i have been fooled by some right up until a few minutes before they leave my house on the first visit!
but from both perspectives, the comment quoted is just (imo) simply incorrect. i am planning on buying a puppy (its actually a standard poodle, but the same rules apply) from one of the best breed kennels in the uk (or very possibly even france). i will be wanting to buy Her in about 3 or so YEARS time- and am already taking into account all the costs.
so where the money is concerned, there is firstly, the price of the puppy, then the price of flying over to met the breeder and and with luck have her be happy i want one of her babies, then there is the price of going Back over to again (by plane or boat) and then the return trip via boat with little Kimber (yes, i have her name ready and waiting), not to mention all her classes, vet costs, grooming, food bills and everything else that goes with having another dog.
i would love to have her now, but i know that is unrealistic of me... i have a litter due in 2 months and am therefore currently adding to my vet fund account to cover it. even without having them due, i wouldnt want to run out to the 1st 'breeder' i found and buy the puppy in my current price range-
after all, anything worth having is well worth saving for! isn't it?

I apologize if I am not being clear on these issues, but I am getting confused myself on why I am being misunderstood or misinterpreted on random sentences without reading my whole post. You are saving up for one because you are an educated buyer, and you are a dog lover. I was trying to state that, for an uneducated client, they would be LESS LIEKLY to save up for an "ideal dog", but yes of course they would have to save! to buy ANY dog, pet store dog or not, whichever they can meet first. how else would they afford a dog if they have no money?

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

I apologize if I am not being clear on these issues, but I am getting confused myself on why I am being misunderstood or misinterpreted. You are saving up for one because you are an educated buyer, and you are a dog lover. I was trying to state that, for an uneducated client, they would be LESS LIEKLY to save up for an "ideal dog", but yes of course they would have to save! to buy ANY dog, pet store dog or not, whichever they can meet first. how else would they afford a dog if they have no money?

sorry, we thankfully don't have petshops that sell puppies here so i don't know the basic price difference- but puppy mills are a really big problem...
most of the mill yorkie puppies are only £150-£300 and ofcourse that is for a 6wk non reg teacup most times ()... and some could spend more than that on a weekend shopping trip and would think nothing of it... no saving involved.
but i have always assumed that anyone smart enough to own a dog would be smart enough to want to see where it comes from etc, and realise that as with anything else, the more you research and generally the more you spend, the better deal your getting in the long run... one of the most common phrases here (whether talking about dogs or tissue paper) is 'you get what you pay for' so i personally would always have assumed that anyone would apply the same logic when buying a new family member (whether attached with a name picked or not)... after all, in a pet shop is it not difficult to see the puppies personalities therefore making any petstore purchase a 'shot in the dark'?
i've always put things like that down to common sense, no 'how to buy a puppy' course needed.

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

You are so right on that. Medical Bills for Carlo is now aproaching $20,000, and I am guessing that Maxines bills over the years are around $5,000. That is around $25,000 for 2 dogs that combined cost around $3500. That does not inclufe a $7,000 fence, average food bills of around $150 a month, supplements, toys, and the initial damage casued by teething, and maxines peeing on Oriental and wool rugs to this day, and she is housebroken. Some idiots still tell me I should have put Carlo down. If one more person says it, I may just put them down.

Many people don't understand that you can't put a price on the love and bond that you and Carlo have. You have my complete respect and admiration for how you've been there for Carlo and also how you have taken care of he and Maxine. I know they are special and worth it, but it makes you no less special also for being such a wonderful dad. On a far less consequencial note, I too had gorgeous Chinese rugs that my first Yorkie loved, even though she was housebroken. She was far more important to me than the rugs. I forgot about those "costs", too. The most important cost is how they steal your heart. That stays with you forever.

[Rhetts_mama]

Sorry, but I just don't get the connection between a pup and "someone's actual birth child".

Again, I am going with the assumption that someone chooses to contact a breeder because they are already aware of the pitfalls of petstore animals. Thus, they have at least some level of knowledge and an attachment to the idea of owning a pet. Also, none of the breeders who have answered you here are the types who put ads up on internet, newspaper or corner market advertising pups for sale. If they are being contacted, it's because someone has done a modicum of research and has been referred to them through one avenue or another. Therefore, these breeders have the right to assume that what you ask reflects your values.

[ChocoMilk]

sometimes, it is better to look at the both sides point of view (breeder/buyer) instead of arguing your side only. I was just providing possible explanations on why a buyer might ask the price first because everyone here seemed to think ASKING PRICE FIRST = BUYER'S FIRST PRIORITY AND THEREFORE REJECT THE BUYER. (hence the baby example)

NOT THE CASE. and I'm sorry that you can't seem to understand beyond what you assume that every buyer should know, because not everyone can think like you. I never assumed less of any breeders or owners unless they ran a puppymill so I don't get why so many people attack one another here if one has done something that they think is "wrong". I just tried to give a different viewpoint since everyone is so one-sided, that is all.

anyway too long of a day today. just wanted to give my two cents but will withdraw from this thread now.

[Rhetts_mama]

Gotcha...someone who doesn't agree with your argument is incapable of understanding it...