Females try to kill each other! - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Brooklynn · 04-08-2010, 09:53 AM

my boys don't even fight over bitches in season...I only have two males that have gotten into a fight and it was over a squeaky toy no bitches when in season. I guess I've been the lucky one in this aspect

MadDeDo · 04-08-2010, 01:52 PM

First of all, most of the time it is genetic unfortunately. My sister's Yorkie whom she decided to breed to "get some extra money" has always been aggressive towards other females. She only had the one litter, and I ended up keeping one of the girls and she is my spayed baby, but along with a few health issues she is also very aggressive just like her mother. Thank goodness my sister's dog is spayed, that one litter was enough to convince her. However, I still CANNOT have her around my dogs...given the chance she will kill one of my girls, even spayed. Her daughter is only 3 lbs and isn't AS bad as her mother. She can get aggressive but I can control her because I trained her very well as a pup. If I clap my hands and say NO she will stop what she's doing immediately no matter what. If I hadn't trained her that way, I would not have been able to keep her. My sister's dog is otherwise a sweetheart and is WONDERFUL with people, snuggly and cuddly and a kissing queen, but she just can't be around certain female dogs. Now, someone mentioned about mother and daughter and family ties...that is so true. My sister's dog would NEVER hurt her baby. I can take Dede to her house and they play and kiss each other, wash each other, etc. She KNOWS that's her baby and has never had a single bit of aggression towards her. Also my other spayed girl Maddie has been around for awhile and was my sister's baby's best friend when she was growing up. She wouldn't hurt her either. It's certain females, but you just can't trust them if they're like that, sadly.

I have heard several people say their intact males fight. Mine don't at all. There can be a girl in heat right in their faces and they just look at each other like, "who gets her mom?"

They play with each other, sleep with each other, etc. I trust my boys fully.

My girls are good for the most part, I have had a few aggressive girls and once they showed it, they were petted out and spayed. I have a wonderful little group now...they all get along very well except for the occasional snap over a treat or toy.

Now on the babies, I would never let my other dogs around a litter of pups until the pups are at least 8-9 weeks old, and even then it is extremely supervised. Mothers are protective of their young, it's just instinct, so I would never put them in a situation like that where they felt they had to fight to protect them. Puppies have their own nursery room, a separate bedroom, and I have the door closed at all times and even have the mom inside a big crate or tupperware bin with a hole cut out, covered with a blanket, and inside a big exercise pen. The babies are inside the crate/bin and the mom can go in and out into the exercise area as she pleases, but she always feels her babies are safe and protected. I am the only one who goes into that room, I do not want the moms stressed or upset.

It doesn't sound like you can do much as far as separating, so I would say in that case the only option is rehoming. I don't think you can risk losing either of your dogs OR anymore puppies.

YorkieRose · 04-08-2010, 05:40 PM

What is the reason for not spaying and neutering these Yorkies?

maryeverett1 · 04-08-2010, 06:04 PM

Yikes! I will say it again YIKES!!

Mardelin · 04-08-2010, 07:16 PM

The only problem I've had with females fighting is my spayed girls and it's usually over who is going to sleep next to me.

I've had girls come into Season together and keep them together, although seperated from everyone else. Never, never have I had them fight with one another, on the contrary they become very considerate of one another and gravitate towards each other.

Unfortunately, aggression at times can be genetic, at other times it is brought on by fear. But, in this situation it appears more to be a genetic disposition. If you choose to keep both the girls, keep them seperated. The pregnant girl should be kept in a quiet area of the home, nothing should be upsetting her. But, if it were me, I would be spaying both of them, just based on their aggressive tendancies.

motherhen · 04-09-2010, 12:06 AM

For some reason, this thread is no longer in the main discussion group where I posted it . I didn't change it so, don't know how it got changed.
When we got Calypso, we were very very new to this business. We knew she acted differently but we didn't know why. It was only after seeing a TV program, that we realized that she acted just like that dog -- an abused dog. By that time, she was already pregnant with her first litter. She was a year old when we got her, and came in heat about as soon as we got her. Things were fine with her and Pandora, until Pandora finally had her first good heat at 2½ years old. That's when Calypso got jealous and the trouble started. We've had Pandora (our very first Yorkie) a lot longer then we've had Calypso, and we could never part with her. We've only had Calypso for 1½ years, so that is why she would be the one to be rehomed.
I am disabled, so this is my little business to try to help with a few of the bills. Last year we were able to pay the real estate taxes with the puppy money. If you don't have financial problems, then you can't understand how much this helped us. SO, to have them spayed is really not an option, because so far, it has really helped us to make ends meet.
NOW, before I get jumped on for breeding just for the money of it . . . yes, there is the money part of it -- but we love our dogs/puppies also. It is getting harder each litter to let the little ones go to their forever homes. But, that is why this is a small business for me, to love them while we can and then let them go. We don't have a kennel, or any big set-up. Just a couple of middle aged people, who love Yorkies and will admit that the money does come in handy. If/when it comes time that they are at an age where they can't be bred anymore, then they will be fixed and continue to be our best fur-friends. In the meantime, we do the best for them that we can, with what we have, and count on friends to help us with problems that come up that we don't know what to do about. God bless you all for all your help and comments.
Barb

DvlshAngel985 · 04-09-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motherhen

For some reason, this thread is no longer in the main discussion group where I posted it . I didn't change it so, don't know how it got changed.
When we got Calypso, we were very very new to this business. We knew she acted differently but we didn't know why. It was only after seeing a TV program, that we realized that she acted just like that dog -- an abused dog. By that time, she was already pregnant with her first litter. She was a year old when we got her, and came in heat about as soon as we got her. Things were fine with her and Pandora, until Pandora finally had her first good heat at 2½ years old. That's when Calypso got jealous and the trouble started. We've had Pandora (our very first Yorkie) a lot longer then we've had Calypso, and we could never part with her. We've only had Calypso for 1½ years, so that is why she would be the one to be rehomed.

Just because you saw it on TV doesn't mean that's what happened to Calypso. Kaji acts as though everything in the world in some point in time hurt him or scared him to death. His breeder told me he was a shy little boy and I know Tammy and her family would never lay a finger on his furry head. This is who he is, this is what he inherited. Mine is fearful, yours is aggressive. It doesn't mean she was abused even though they react just like the puppies on tv.

motherhen · 04-09-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Just because you saw it on TV doesn't mean that's what happened to Calypso. Kaji acts as though everything in the world in some point in time hurt him or scared him to death. His breeder told me he was a shy little boy and I know Tammy and her family would never lay a finger on his furry head. This is who he is, this is what he inherited. Mine is fearful, yours is aggressive. It doesn't mean she was abused even though they react just like the puppies on tv.

Well, she was skin & bones when we got her. She ate like she never had enough food before. She hid in corners, wouldn't let us hold her, slinked around on her belly, loud voices made her panic, never really relaxed - was always watching us with a scared look; and very scared whenever we picked up an object to use that had any length to it at all. She also had this high-pitched hurt yippy bark, instead of a normal bark.
After having her for a while, things changed for the better. She now has weight problem and could stand to lose a few pounds; she loves being held & petted; she doesn't hide ever; loud voices don't make her panic anymore; she relaxes and sleep quite well now. She still does have an issue with objects we use sometimes, so we are careful around her when we do. Her bark is now normal, and only turns to the high pitch bark, when we get home from being gone for a while --- like she was afraid we weren't coming back.
If that doesn't sound like abuse, then I'm sorry I called it that. The program on TV was about abused dogs and showed some and how they act -- and it fit her perfectly.
Barb

YorkieRose · 04-09-2010, 03:59 AM

Ok, you are going to use these two bitches for breeding, end of reasoning...your only option is to keep them 100% separate..FOREVER! If money is tight..and most of us know or have known tight money times...you can not risk a huge vet bill. What profit is in a bitch eating a litter of puppies...?
Find a way to fix your house so these two stay apart...try a soft muzzle if they must be together for a short period of time...it is only a matter of time someone loses an eye ball or needs surgery for a lung puncture, torn ear or broken leg...
Best wishes...

PS..I had two of the best girls..Charlotte and Ruby...angels is fur coats..but they hated each other..only each other. I had a huge set up and they never lived together. Once they were apart for SIX months, never laid eyes on each other. I thought surely they would forget past problems by then...Charlotte walks into the play area, walks straight to Ruby and bites her..all in about 3 seconds...hate goes to the bone in Yorkie bitches...my males never ever fought!

motherhen · 04-09-2010, 04:18 AM

We fixed the Xpen like a gate, to divide off part of the kitchen area from the rest of the house. Actually it's working better then I thought it would. Now the puppies,male & one female are in there -- and the other female roams the house. In a few hours I switch it so that the other area of the kitchen is sectioned off. The other female goes in there, and everyone else has the run of the house. The pups are now using the doggy door more, so that's a plus when they are penned in the kitchen . All-in-all, things have settled down a lot. I'm glad to hear that males don't fight. We've got 2 male puppies that we are still going to get. Sure glad I won't have to worry about them like that. But, if I should, I know now how to use the Xpen like a gate to section areas off. Now, we'll have to try to get another Xpen to use for when puppies are born.
Barb

DvlshAngel985 · 04-09-2010, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motherhen

Well, she was skin & bones when we got her. She ate like she never had enough food before. She hid in corners, wouldn't let us hold her, slinked around on her belly, loud voices made her panic, never really relaxed - was always watching us with a scared look; and very scared whenever we picked up an object to use that had any length to it at all. She also had this high-pitched hurt yippy bark, instead of a normal bark.
After having her for a while, things changed for the better. She now has weight problem and could stand to lose a few pounds; she loves being held & petted; she doesn't hide ever; loud voices don't make her panic anymore; she relaxes and sleep quite well now. She still does have an issue with objects we use sometimes, so we are careful around her when we do. Her bark is now normal, and only turns to the high pitch bark, when we get home from being gone for a while --- like she was afraid we weren't coming back.
If that doesn't sound like abuse, then I'm sorry I called it that. The program on TV was about abused dogs and showed some and how they act -- and it fit her perfectly.
Barb

You're making me eat my words.

Starving and being nothing but skin and bones... that is definitely abuse! Everything else you said, describes my boy to a T. He wasn't abused at all, he is just such a fearful little guy. I've only had him for a little while, and the transition from quiet living in a house full of yorkies to a city life with big scary buses and such is a HUGE difference and he's still adjusting. He doesn't bark at all. The only noises he makes are these crying sounds. I would take him for a walk and he would dive for the bushes. He's better now.

motherhen · 04-09-2010, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

You're making me eat my words.

Starving and being nothing but skin and bones... that is definitely abuse! Everything else you said, describes my boy to a T. He wasn't abused at all, he is just such a fearful little guy. I've only had him for a little while, and the transition from quiet living in a house full of yorkies to a city life with big scary buses and such is a HUGE difference and he's still adjusting. He doesn't bark at all. The only noises he makes are these crying sounds. I would take him for a walk and he would dive for the bushes. He's better now.

Aw he sounds like a cutie. We also have a young female who is shy. She's NOT quiet though! She just shys away from things more then the rest, and we have never abused her. Big difference from shying away to crouching, hiding and being afraid of humans. Pandora didn't bark until she was about 7 months old, now she lets us know when someone is here or outside by their pen. We were to the point we didn't think she could bark at all! She can, and your little cutie will too. I come from the country and I still don't like living in town with all the noices!!!

YorkieRose · 04-09-2010, 05:15 AM

NO!!! I did not say males do not fight!!! Many males fight to the death...intact males are not to be trusted together with bitches in the house or if they are aggressive towards each other..I know breeders who have lost nice champions due to fights...champion or pet, it is tragic to lose or have an injured dog.

I have always been lucky to have males who got along with intact females among them..

motherhen · 04-09-2010, 05:27 AM

3-27-10 Calypso 1.jpg

Calypso when we got her.jpg

Not sure how to do this. It kept saying the one pic was to big, now it might be too small, won't know until I send this. The pic of her by the wall is when we got her, and the pic outside is how she looks now. The pic of when we got her, I had just given her a bath and dryed her, so she was looking bigger then she really was.

motherhen · 04-09-2010, 05:33 AM

Since Chaos had been the only male for 3 years, I'm thinking it might be a little tricky. Hopefully it will be better beings they will be puppies when we get them, and not full grown adult males. Thanks for the correction, I will be extra carefull with them also. I'm very willing to learn, and I find out I learn something every day. I appreciate the help from all of you, who have a lot more experience with these things then we do.

04-08-2010, 09:53 AM	#31
Brooklynn Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 4,280	my boys don't even fight over bitches in season...I only have two males that have gotten into a fight and it was over a squeaky toy no bitches when in season. I guess I've been the lucky one in this aspect __________________ Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers www.brooklynnyorkies.com

04-08-2010, 07:16 PM	#35
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	The only problem I've had with females fighting is my spayed girls and it's usually over who is going to sleep next to me. I've had girls come into Season together and keep them together, although seperated from everyone else. Never, never have I had them fight with one another, on the contrary they become very considerate of one another and gravitate towards each other. Unfortunately, aggression at times can be genetic, at other times it is brought on by fear. But, in this situation it appears more to be a genetic disposition. If you choose to keep both the girls, keep them seperated. The pregnant girl should be kept in a quiet area of the home, nothing should be upsetting her. But, if it were me, I would be spaying both of them, just based on their aggressive tendancies. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

04-08-2010, 01:52 PM	#32
MadDeDo Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Clemmons, NC Posts: 633	First of all, most of the time it is genetic unfortunately. My sister's Yorkie whom she decided to breed to "get some extra money" has always been aggressive towards other females. She only had the one litter, and I ended up keeping one of the girls and she is my spayed baby, but along with a few health issues she is also very aggressive just like her mother. Thank goodness my sister's dog is spayed, that one litter was enough to convince her. However, I still CANNOT have her around my dogs...given the chance she will kill one of my girls, even spayed. Her daughter is only 3 lbs and isn't AS bad as her mother. She can get aggressive but I can control her because I trained her very well as a pup. If I clap my hands and say NO she will stop what she's doing immediately no matter what. If I hadn't trained her that way, I would not have been able to keep her. My sister's dog is otherwise a sweetheart and is WONDERFUL with people, snuggly and cuddly and a kissing queen, but she just can't be around certain female dogs. Now, someone mentioned about mother and daughter and family ties...that is so true. My sister's dog would NEVER hurt her baby. I can take Dede to her house and they play and kiss each other, wash each other, etc. She KNOWS that's her baby and has never had a single bit of aggression towards her. Also my other spayed girl Maddie has been around for awhile and was my sister's baby's best friend when she was growing up. She wouldn't hurt her either. It's certain females, but you just can't trust them if they're like that, sadly. I have heard several people say their intact males fight. Mine don't at all. There can be a girl in heat right in their faces and they just look at each other like, "who gets her mom?" They play with each other, sleep with each other, etc. I trust my boys fully. My girls are good for the most part, I have had a few aggressive girls and once they showed it, they were petted out and spayed. I have a wonderful little group now...they all get along very well except for the occasional snap over a treat or toy. Now on the babies, I would never let my other dogs around a litter of pups until the pups are at least 8-9 weeks old, and even then it is extremely supervised. Mothers are protective of their young, it's just instinct, so I would never put them in a situation like that where they felt they had to fight to protect them. Puppies have their own nursery room, a separate bedroom, and I have the door closed at all times and even have the mom inside a big crate or tupperware bin with a hole cut out, covered with a blanket, and inside a big exercise pen. The babies are inside the crate/bin and the mom can go in and out into the exercise area as she pleases, but she always feels her babies are safe and protected. I am the only one who goes into that room, I do not want the moms stressed or upset. It doesn't sound like you can do much as far as separating, so I would say in that case the only option is rehoming. I don't think you can risk losing either of your dogs OR anymore puppies.

04-08-2010, 05:40 PM	#33
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	What is the reason for not spaying and neutering these Yorkies?

04-08-2010, 06:04 PM	#34
maryeverett1 BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 795	Yikes! I will say it again YIKES!!

04-09-2010, 12:06 AM	#36
motherhen Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 192	For some reason, this thread is no longer in the main discussion group where I posted it . I didn't change it so, don't know how it got changed. When we got Calypso, we were very very new to this business. We knew she acted differently but we didn't know why. It was only after seeing a TV program, that we realized that she acted just like that dog -- an abused dog. By that time, she was already pregnant with her first litter. She was a year old when we got her, and came in heat about as soon as we got her. Things were fine with her and Pandora, until Pandora finally had her first good heat at 2½ years old. That's when Calypso got jealous and the trouble started. We've had Pandora (our very first Yorkie) a lot longer then we've had Calypso, and we could never part with her. We've only had Calypso for 1½ years, so that is why she would be the one to be rehomed. I am disabled, so this is my little business to try to help with a few of the bills. Last year we were able to pay the real estate taxes with the puppy money. If you don't have financial problems, then you can't understand how much this helped us. SO, to have them spayed is really not an option, because so far, it has really helped us to make ends meet. NOW, before I get jumped on for breeding just for the money of it . . . yes, there is the money part of it -- but we love our dogs/puppies also. It is getting harder each litter to let the little ones go to their forever homes. But, that is why this is a small business for me, to love them while we can and then let them go. We don't have a kennel, or any big set-up. Just a couple of middle aged people, who love Yorkies and will admit that the money does come in handy. If/when it comes time that they are at an age where they can't be bred anymore, then they will be fixed and continue to be our best fur-friends. In the meantime, we do the best for them that we can, with what we have, and count on friends to help us with problems that come up that we don't know what to do about. God bless you all for all your help and comments. Barb

04-09-2010, 03:59 AM	#39
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Ok, you are going to use these two bitches for breeding, end of reasoning...your only option is to keep them 100% separate..FOREVER! If money is tight..and most of us know or have known tight money times...you can not risk a huge vet bill. What profit is in a bitch eating a litter of puppies...? Find a way to fix your house so these two stay apart...try a soft muzzle if they must be together for a short period of time...it is only a matter of time someone loses an eye ball or needs surgery for a lung puncture, torn ear or broken leg... Best wishes... PS..I had two of the best girls..Charlotte and Ruby...angels is fur coats..but they hated each other..only each other. I had a huge set up and they never lived together. Once they were apart for SIX months, never laid eyes on each other. I thought surely they would forget past problems by then...Charlotte walks into the play area, walks straight to Ruby and bites her..all in about 3 seconds...hate goes to the bone in Yorkie bitches...my males never ever fought!

04-09-2010, 04:18 AM	#40
motherhen Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 192	We fixed the Xpen like a gate, to divide off part of the kitchen area from the rest of the house. Actually it's working better then I thought it would. Now the puppies,male & one female are in there -- and the other female roams the house. In a few hours I switch it so that the other area of the kitchen is sectioned off. The other female goes in there, and everyone else has the run of the house. The pups are now using the doggy door more, so that's a plus when they are penned in the kitchen . All-in-all, things have settled down a lot. I'm glad to hear that males don't fight. We've got 2 male puppies that we are still going to get. Sure glad I won't have to worry about them like that. But, if I should, I know now how to use the Xpen like a gate to section areas off. Now, we'll have to try to get another Xpen to use for when puppies are born. Barb

04-09-2010, 05:15 AM	#43
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	NO!!! I did not say males do not fight!!! Many males fight to the death...intact males are not to be trusted together with bitches in the house or if they are aggressive towards each other..I know breeders who have lost nice champions due to fights...champion or pet, it is tragic to lose or have an injured dog. I have always been lucky to have males who got along with intact females among them..

04-09-2010, 05:27 AM	#44
motherhen Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 192	3-27-10 Calypso 1.jpg Calypso when we got her.jpg Not sure how to do this. It kept saying the one pic was to big, now it might be too small, won't know until I send this. The pic of her by the wall is when we got her, and the pic outside is how she looks now. The pic of when we got her, I had just given her a bath and dryed her, so she was looking bigger then she really was.

04-09-2010, 05:33 AM	#45
motherhen Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 192	Since Chaos had been the only male for 3 years, I'm thinking it might be a little tricky. Hopefully it will be better beings they will be puppies when we get them, and not full grown adult males. Thanks for the correction, I will be extra carefull with them also. I'm very willing to learn, and I find out I learn something every day. I appreciate the help from all of you, who have a lot more experience with these things then we do.