honest question to breeders

[WinstonMom]

I sell my pups with spay/neuter agreements for various reasons. Some have been mentioned above.
The first and most important (to me) reason is that a search on Petfinder this morning yielded 294,712 adoptable pets. The search I did on yorkshire terriers brought up 1244 results. That is a lot of yorkies without homes. I do not (nor to I see any reason to) breed to supply the pet market. With that many yorkies seeking new homes, obviously the pet market is over-supplied already. The majority of these pets that are up for adoption come from the backyard breeder.
I have some lovely yorkies. Right now I have 5 dogs in my breeding program. Two of them were produced by me but 3 of those dogs, I purchased from other breeders. These breeders have dedicated a good portion of their lives and I know how much of their hard earned cash into developing the lines that they have. I am fortunate and blessed to own these dogs. They were sold to me by breeders who trusted me to protect their lines. I do not have the desire nor the right to sell puppies from these breedings on open papers. To do so would be breaking a trust that took me many years to earn.

Audrey

[LuvMyPuppE]

"I do not (nor to I see any reason to) breed to supply the pet market."

but isn't that what happens when any dog breeds?

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by WinstonMom

I sell my pups with spay/neuter agreements for various reasons. Some have been mentioned above.
The first and most important (to me) reason is that a search on Petfinder this morning yielded 294,712 adoptable pets. The search I did on yorkshire terriers brought up 1244 results. That is a lot of yorkies without homes. I do not (nor to I see any reason to) breed to supply the pet market. With that many yorkies seeking new homes, obviously the pet market is over-supplied already. The majority of these pets that are up for adoption come from the backyard breeder.
I have some lovely yorkies. Right now I have 5 dogs in my breeding program. Two of them were produced by me but 3 of those dogs, I purchased from other breeders. These breeders have dedicated a good portion of their lives and I know how much of their hard earned cash into developing the lines that they have. I am fortunate and blessed to own these dogs. They were sold to me by breeders who trusted me to protect their lines. I do not have the desire nor the right to sell puppies from these breedings on open papers. To do so would be breaking a trust that took me many years to earn.

Audrey

As someone that works with rescue.....Thank you for this post!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

"I do not (nor to I see any reason to) breed to supply the pet market."

but isn't that what happens when any dog breeds?

Nope, but I will expand....

There are those of us that are exhibitor/breeders. Yes, we breed but, for ourselves. In search of our next Champion to add to our breeding program. However, this only happens at the most 1 or 2 times a year. We plan these breedings very carefully and before these breedings take place homes have already been approved of for those puppies we don't keep. With average litters being from 1 - 3.....not very many puppies to place.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

"I do not (nor to I see any reason to) breed to supply the pet market."

but isn't that what happens when any dog breeds?

Hmmm....
I think that what was meant by the comment was breeding just for the purpose of producing sellable pets, regardless to the quality of the dog(s) vs carefully selecting and breeding minimal litters with the intent of constantly 'bettering' ones lines and placing the dogs that 'don't make the cut' in pet homes.

[shodanusmc]

My wife keeps trying to place me in a Pet Home, but so far, no takers!

I have no problem with the Spay/Neuter contract, and believe it is best for everyone, and the breeder should hold back the papers until proof is shown. A lot of time, effort and love goes into each litter. Only thing I disagree with is that the baby pup is fixed at too early an age. We have had every dog fixed, and just about all of them with the exception of our little Yorkie was show quality. Does not matter to us, we just want the best pet,,,well, I should say family member, because that is what they are.

There are some really outstanding Breeders on YT, and several just commented here! Mardelin is right up there! Whoever gets one of her pups is lucky, same as with several others.

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Nope, but I will expand....

There are those of us that are exhibitor/breeders. Yes, we breed but, for ourselves. In search of our next Champion to add to our breeding program. However, this only happens at the most 1 or 2 times a year. We plan these breedings very carefully and before these breedings take place homes have already been approved of for those puppies we don't keep. With average litters being from 1 - 3.....not very many puppies to place.

i see that there is a difference in accidental breeding and planned breeding, but any breeding does supply the pet market IMO.

i'm just playing devil's advocate - i have adopted a pup and i plan to buy another from a breeder unless i do come across a rescue. so, i'm not boycotting breeders.

when you said that, i was just thinking - if there weren't breeders then people wanting a pet would get one of those pets without homes rather than buying one - don't you agree?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

My wife keeps trying to place me in a Pet Home, but so far, no takers!

Awww...are you not house trained, or are you just chewing on too much furniture?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

when you said that, i was just thinking - if there weren't breeders then people wanting a pet would get one of those pets without homes rather than buying one - don't you agree?

It's funny because while you are thinking along that line, I'm thinking, if there weren't unethical breeders and breeders who didn't enforce a s/n agreement from the get-go, then there wouldn't be so many pets without homes. In addition to, if there weren't responsible breeders and only homeless pets to choose from, then who would keep the established breeds we love going?

The difference is supplying very few, say well under 10, dogs to pet homes as a breeder vs producing multiple litters strictly for pet purposes and placing, say, 20-30 dogs, with no s/n agreement in pet homes per year. I think this is one of those things that not just black and white, but where there is a huge gray area to consider too.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

i see that there is a difference in accidental breeding and planned breeding, but any breeding does supply the pet market IMO.

i'm just playing devil's advocate - i have adopted a pup and i plan to buy another from a breeder unless i do come across a rescue. so, i'm not boycotting breeders.

when you said that, i was just thinking - if there weren't breeders then people wanting a pet would get one of those pets without homes rather than buying one - don't you agree?

But just think... if there weren't all those dogs in the shelters & humane societies from poor breeding, unwanted breedings, unsocialized dogs, irresponsible owners - then we wouldn't even be discussing this. People would be able to go to the breeders who specialize in their breed and actually get a dog of the breed that suits them.

I know that when we chose what dog we wanted to add to our family it was based on what breed would fit into our lifestyle at that time. When our kids were younger we had a blk Lab. Now that it's just hubby & me we researched and found that a Yorkie would better suit us.

Not that the dogs in shelters/humane society don't deserve love - of course they do - but unfortunately you don't always know what you're getting.

Now - if there weren't people who are/were breeding just to be breeding/for the money - you'd have people who were only breeding to keep the breed intact and any dog other than the best representation of the breed would be neutered/spayed and placed in a home that has already been waiting for it.

I hope that makes sense and it is only my opinion.

[WinstonMom]

[QUOTE=LuvMyPuppE;3063438]i see that there is a difference in accidental breeding and planned breeding, but any breeding does supply the pet market IMO.

Of course if I place a puppy in a pet home, the breeding did contribute to the supply of the pet market but I just don't produce that many pups. Last year I had two puppies, one I kept and one I placed. Hopefully every puppy that I place is one less that will be purchased in a pet store or from a backyard breeder. One of things that reputable breeders do that pet market suppliers do not, is that I accept responsibility for every pup that I produce for the duration of its life (or mine, I guess which ever comes first). My pups are welcome back in my home forever, actually I have in my contract that my pups cannot be rehomed without my permission (and I check up on that every six months or so). Most backyard breeders don't do this and pet stores for sure don't want them back. I also accept a certain amount of medical responsibility for every pup that I place should a genetic problem sneak by me and arise. Pet stores for sure don't accept that responsibility (and I don't think that most BYB ever think that they could possibly produce a pup with a problem, as most haven't done enough research to even know that genetic problems exist).
I just could not ever give breeding rights to anyone who was not willing to accept all the responsibilities that go with breeding and had done all the homework that is involved with responsible breeding.

Audrey

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

i see that there is a difference in accidental breeding and planned breeding, but any breeding does supply the pet market IMO.

i'm just playing devil's advocate - i have adopted a pup and i plan to buy another from a breeder unless i do come across a rescue. so, i'm not boycotting breeders.

when you said that, i was just thinking - if there weren't breeders then people wanting a pet would get one of those pets without homes rather than buying one - don't you agree?

There are those that plan the breeding, doing it with a great deal of decision on improving the breed and only breeding those with the best qualities. Yes, we do supply a Pet Market, but again with 1 or 2 breedings a year and maybe skipping a year or two, it's on a minimal basis and those puppies already have homes prior to the breeding. And then there are those times we'll keep an entire litter for show. However we also supply other exhibitor breeders....as trading back and forth does happen.

And then there are those that only breed to sell puppies....period, without doing their required homework, putting two dogs together.

In regards to your last statement.....if there weren't any breeders, breeding indiscrimantely, there would not be any pets without homes for you to have. There would be no option of where you obtained your pet from.

I will say I've never had a pup of mine end up in rescue/shelter or in the streets. As when my families obtain a pup from me they have me for the rest of their pups life. So, I do know where all my pups are. My contract also states that if at anytime in this pup life the owners cannot keep it, it does come back to me.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Awww...are you not house trained, or are you just chewing on too much furniture?

That old retired Marine guy....probably developed a whole lot of habits in field that don't serve well in a domestic environment.

[ranant12]

Let me add that another reason that reputable breeders do insist on spay/neuter is because usually when they place a puppy, they follow up on the dog and will take back a dog that an owner finds themselves unable to keep. They CARE about their puppies, even years after they have been placed.

If you would just do a quick browse in the breeders section and see the numerous postings there from people that had no knowledge of breeding, but decideded to anyway. Then they came here to post asking for help when their females have trouble delivering and they do not have a clue what to do. The veteran breeders do what they can to offer help, but often the female dog and her puppies suffers tragically for the ignorance of it's owners. NO reputable breeder wants a puppy of theirs to grow up to be bred and die in labor because the owner "just wanted one litter" but had NO idea what to do for a whelping dog in trouble. Just reading in the breeders section sends my blood pressure up some days.

You will understand if you just take time to read the stories of lost moms and puppies from 1st time breeders that just assume that the dog will know what to do.

Yorkies are FRAGILE creatures that have MANY problems whelping and raising puppies. The best way to be sure that one of your puppies will never suffer that pain, is to insist that all of your puppies are spayed or neutered.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by maryeverett1

One more thing My situation is a perfect example of why truly good breeders have spay/neuter clauses in a contract! Anything can happen!! Sometimes people have the best of intentions and things still happen anyway! It's a safety precaution for all involved!

As a pet owner and not a breeder, I thoroughly agree! Great thread with great answers! I really recommend that people look for breeders who have a spay and neuter contract and sell on limited registration. I think this is something every breeder could/should do.