I want a Biewer/parti yorkie - Page 7 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Brooklynn · 02-24-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Agreed, but one has to look at the total picture of what is behind this dog (the size and weight of dogs within the dogs line).

Now understood that the Standard is there for us to guide our breeding but, it is also there to judge the quality of our show/breeding dogs.

Yup...but here's the difference...pet breeders and show breeders are two different set of breeders and no I don't mean unethical but they vs. them will always see this differently until a pet breeder actually gets involved in the show world even if they never set foot in the ring or have a dog in the ring and walk a mile in our shoes. I can actually say I started out as a pet breeder and one of those years ago that oh I want a puppy out of my sweet darling little girl....now that I feel in love with the yorkie breed and the show world boy have I learned alot...but once it gets to the point I can't be involved in the show world whether it be in the ring or just being involved I'll be out of breeding...I believe it goes hand in hand.

Donna

Mardelin · 02-24-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I remember that! YOu need to find that and post it! I was GREAT!

I contacted the original poster and she's looking for it.

YorkieRose · 02-24-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Ethics implies high standards of honest and honorable dealing, and of methods used, esp. in the professions or in business.
Just because the Parti breeders don't breed for the Standard color of the Yorkshire Terrier Does not make them unethical.
If you accuse someone of being unethical, it is equivalent of calling them unprofessional and may well be taken as a significant insult and perceived more personally than if you called them immoral.
I am not a member of the YTCA and have not signed any papers associated with them, so I do not adhere to their constitution or code of ethics/conduct for said CLUB.
Don't you believe you are acting unethical by calling others that, when you have no idea about them?
It really isnt moral or ethical for some of you to come on a thread about partis when you have none and spout about how unethical we really are.
Beware of transgressing the other person's morals, as this is particularly how they will judge you.

EXACTLY...and you should judge me...AS A BREEDER! You should look at my dogs and judge them as to the standard...believe me I would not be offended if you said.."Pat, you dropped the ball with that breeding"...that is why we show dogs...I want opinions.

Mardelin · 02-24-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

EXACTLY...and you should judge me...AS A BREEDER! You should look at my dogs and judge them as to the standard...believe me I would not be offended if you said.."Pat, you dropped the ball with that breeding"...that is why we show dogs...I want opinions.

I know I've dropped the ball on a couple of breedings. Breeding the same pair that produced a wonderful litter. Then the next time around......what the heck happened?

Brooklynn · 02-24-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I know I've dropped the ball on a couple of breedings. Breeding the same pair that produced a wonderful litter. Then the next time around......what the heck happened?

Yup it's what you do after you drop the ball that will set a good breeder apart from a bad one

Brooklynn · 02-24-2010, 02:03 PM

I have to tell a story here and it doesn't have anything to do with a Parti but me as a breeder....

I was "given" a 6 month old bitch for "FREE" with an excellent pedigree and was given full rights by a reputable breeder not from TX. As the story goes this bitch at 9 months was NICE, had excellent coat color to die for actually, very nice texture, very silky and OMG structure and movement to die for...great ear set, nice bite, great pigmentation around the eyes and an awesome personality, OMG a bitch to just die for BUT her "ONE" and "ONLY" fault was she was big boned and 8 pounds...I sent her back to her breeder when others would have taken her great qualities and bred her to get what fantastic qualities she had but I as a breeder I couldn't live with that one particular fault....so when I type I mean what I say...I hope some were interested in this story and can learn from it. I just wanted to share with you my story and my ethics...

Donna Bird

YorkieRose · 02-24-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Yup it's what you do after you drop the ball that will set a good breeder apart from a bad one

AND..that statement is pure gold.
We all make mistakes, but to repeat and repeat the same breedings, diregarding the faults is foolish..and my pet peeve is when a breeder says..."I am a pet breeder, I do not belong to any clubs, my goal is to breed healthy pets..so none of this applies to me...
WELL, guess what..I am a pet breeder first, show breeder second and it all applies to me if I never go near a show again.

Woogie Man · 02-24-2010, 03:03 PM

The whole question of ethics, to me, concerns much more than the dogs one produces and whether or not one follows the code of a breed club. Ethics, for me, is a value/belief system that guides my actions. I should be judged by my actions and how they affect others, either in a positive or negative way.

My dogs live in my house and are all family members. They are all much loved and I'll do without to provide for their needs first. For me, anything less would be unethical, regardless of their quality. Beyond the care I provide, it is my obligation to find ideal homes for any pups I place. These are just a couple of very basic things that are guided by my ethics.

By my definition, I would think that there are some show breeders that I would consider unethical, even when they abide by the parent club's rules. Though they may produce wonderful dogs, it's the behind the scenes things that would really determine their personal ethics.

As you all know, there are several breeds under review in the U.K. for a change in standard where the standard is believed to adversely affect the breed's health. Would it be considered ethical to breed dogs to a standard that you knew was not in the best interests of a dog's health?

Another case to consider would be the Silky Terrier. They are a breed comprised of the Yorkshire and Australian Terriers. Though certified as pure bred by AKC, they best fit the definition of a designer dog (mixing of 2 breeds). AKC did change their policy regarding recognition of new breeds 1 year after allowing the Silky in. I wonder how purists feel about the ethics of all that? They are now pure bred, are allowed to be shown, and are considered legitimate. No offense intended to Silky owners...just trying to make a point about the relativity of ethics.

I just think the word ethical is overused and sometimes mis-used. I feel the same about the word 'reputable'. I don't consider myself a 'reputable' breeder at this time. Maybe in a few years, if and when I get a reputation, then I would be reputable. For now, I'm content to be 'responsible'.

I do breed only standard Yorkies and have no other aspiration other than to one day produce an ideal Yorkie. In that sense, I am a breed purist. I do see the predicament of Parti breeders, though. While many may be in it just for the novelty and $, there are some within that community that have serious goals for their dogs. They have no venue to showcase their dedication.

I mentioned in an earlier post that they maybe should have gone their own way 150 years ago and started a path as a separate breed. There obviously were Parti fanciers in those days. It seems like it may have been possible at the inception of the Kennel Club; now I"m not sure there is a remedy for them. If there are serious Parti breeders out there, I wouldn't automatically call them unethical but would judge them by their individual actions.

O.K., I'll shut up now

.

Nancy1999 · 02-25-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motherhen

He's only 5 weeks old today, and we already have his harem of 3 females to breed! He is younger then they are, so it should work out pretty good, as far as the timing of it all. I don't think our other sire, Chaos, is going to like another male in the house. Hopefully he will eventually adapt to it.

You know, I read posts like this all the time on Yorkietalk and I wonder why other parti breeders don't speak up and say something. If someone had posted something like this concerning a standard yorkie, you could be sure that there would be other breeders speaking up, and saying that he should be evaluated before you decide to breed him. This is a perfect example of why I call parti breeders one-trait breeders. If you really do love the parti's, you will try and help other parti breeders become better breeders, not just help more breeders to become parti breeders.

Brooklynn · 02-25-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You know, I read posts like this all the time on Yorkietalk and I wonder why other parti breeders don't speak up and say something. If someone had posted something like this concerning a standard yorkie, you could be sure that there would be other breeders speaking up, and saying that he should be evaluated before you decide to breed him. This is a perfect example of why I call parti breeders one-trait breeders. If you really do love the parti's, you will try and help other parti breeders become better breeders, not just help more breeders to become parti breeders.

You know, you are absolutely correct!!! I don't see the Parti breeders doing this....

Donna

Mardelin · 02-25-2010, 04:31 PM

[QUOTE=Nancy1999;3017803]You know, I read posts like this all the time on Yorkietalk and I wonder why other parti breeders don't speak up and say something. If someone had posted something like this concerning a standard yorkie, you could be sure that there would be other breeders speaking up, and saying that he should be evaluated before you decide to breed him. This is a perfect example of why I call parti breeders one-trait breeders. If you really do love the parti's, you will try and help other parti breeders become better breeders, not just help more breeders to become parti breeders.[/QUOTE

Nancy,

Where in the heck did you find that post?

Nancy1999 · 02-25-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You know, I read posts like this all the time on Yorkietalk and I wonder why other parti breeders don't speak up and say something. If someone had posted something like this concerning a standard yorkie, you could be sure that there would be other breeders speaking up, and saying that he should be evaluated before you decide to breed him. This is a perfect example of why I call parti breeders one-trait breeders. If you really do love the parti's, you will try and help other parti breeders become better breeders, not just help more breeders to become parti breeders.

Nancy,

Where in the heck did you find that post?

If you click the little arrow at the end of the "Originally Posted by motherhen" part, it will take you right to the thread. Here's a link to the thread. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/my-...ml#post3017515

yorkiegirl2 · 02-25-2010, 04:58 PM

Considering the pups is only 5 week and you cannot tell until he is older if he will be breed material.
The fact that the person is a breeder and a member here probably knows what health clearances is needed .
And
If the person ask for advice I'm sure our Parti breeders will be more then willing to help her.

I think we already have a Queen Bee who constantly want to give advice when not asked, tells everyone how they should breed or how to place their dogs.
There is a time to give advice and a time to keep your nose out of others business.

Nancy1999 · 02-25-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

Considering the pups is only 5 week and you cannot tell until he is older if he will be breed material.
The fact that the person is a breeder and a member here probably knows what health clearances is needed .
And
If the person ask for advice I'm sure our Parti breeders will be more then willing to help her.

I think we already have a Queen Bee who constantly want to give advice when not asked, tells everyone how they should breed or how to place their dogs.
There is a time to give advice and a time to keep your nose out of others business.

Do you mean that Parti breeders believe any yorkie that is a parti can be breed as long as he's passed health clearances? If that’s true than don't tell me how you love the Parti's, and you're not breeding for the money. Part of loving something is being protective of it. Obviously, this dog was sold as a breeder, how can you sell a puppy as a breeder, unless you are a one-trait breeder?

We have lots of members I guess you could call Queen bees, I consider myself a worker bee, and I am trying to help protect the breed by encouraging others to seek out knowledgeable ethical breeders. The breeders I see as ethical don't take the easy route they speak up when the see damage being done to the breed.

I absolutely floored that you are criticizing someone who gave advice on placing pups; this is such a very important step in the breeding process. This forum belongs to everyone, not just those who breed as a business.

yorkiegirl2 · 02-25-2010, 07:19 PM

I just find it insulting for a NON Breeder to tell a breeders how they should breed or sell their pups.

If one asked how do I go about breeding or selling my Pups
(advice asked for).
Then by all means give them advice.

Seeking out knowledgeable ethical breeders, come in more forms then just those from YTCA. We have many good NON show breeders.
I also find it odd that when someone questions a show breeder there are those who jump on the person, "With how dare you question them".
But when NON show breeders are questioned, nothing is really said.
When we hear all the time it is good to question breeders.

You seem to think all Parti breeder are one trait breeders.
You know nothing about the hope and dreams of the serious Parti breeder.

When YTCA change the founding standard to include the Bl & Tans and Lt. Blue and gold, they deviated from the standard to suit their needs.
But change it back in 2007 to Steel Blue and Gold.

Are ethical breeders going to stop breeding all those off color Champions that no longer fit the standard ?
The answer we get is "Well its OK because it enhances the program".
This is a double standard; It's either Right or Wrong.
IMO..I would say 90% of breeders are not breeding to the color standard.
Nothing is said about this but Parti breeders are being slammed for doing the same thing.

Face it.
Not everyone is going to agree on everything, that is just the way it is.
One can have a love for more then just the standard color.
As I see it Like it or Not the Parti's are here to stay.

02-24-2010, 02:03 PM	#96
Brooklynn Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 4,280	I have to tell a story here and it doesn't have anything to do with a Parti but me as a breeder.... I was "given" a 6 month old bitch for "FREE" with an excellent pedigree and was given full rights by a reputable breeder not from TX. As the story goes this bitch at 9 months was NICE, had excellent coat color to die for actually, very nice texture, very silky and OMG structure and movement to die for...great ear set, nice bite, great pigmentation around the eyes and an awesome personality, OMG a bitch to just die for BUT her "ONE" and "ONLY" fault was she was big boned and 8 pounds...I sent her back to her breeder when others would have taken her great qualities and bred her to get what fantastic qualities she had but I as a breeder I couldn't live with that one particular fault....so when I type I mean what I say...I hope some were interested in this story and can learn from it. I just wanted to share with you my story and my ethics... Donna Bird __________________ Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers www.brooklynnyorkies.com

02-24-2010, 03:03 PM	#98
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	The whole question of ethics, to me, concerns much more than the dogs one produces and whether or not one follows the code of a breed club. Ethics, for me, is a value/belief system that guides my actions. I should be judged by my actions and how they affect others, either in a positive or negative way. My dogs live in my house and are all family members. They are all much loved and I'll do without to provide for their needs first. For me, anything less would be unethical, regardless of their quality. Beyond the care I provide, it is my obligation to find ideal homes for any pups I place. These are just a couple of very basic things that are guided by my ethics. By my definition, I would think that there are some show breeders that I would consider unethical, even when they abide by the parent club's rules. Though they may produce wonderful dogs, it's the behind the scenes things that would really determine their personal ethics. As you all know, there are several breeds under review in the U.K. for a change in standard where the standard is believed to adversely affect the breed's health. Would it be considered ethical to breed dogs to a standard that you knew was not in the best interests of a dog's health? Another case to consider would be the Silky Terrier. They are a breed comprised of the Yorkshire and Australian Terriers. Though certified as pure bred by AKC, they best fit the definition of a designer dog (mixing of 2 breeds). AKC did change their policy regarding recognition of new breeds 1 year after allowing the Silky in. I wonder how purists feel about the ethics of all that? They are now pure bred, are allowed to be shown, and are considered legitimate. No offense intended to Silky owners...just trying to make a point about the relativity of ethics. I just think the word ethical is overused and sometimes mis-used. I feel the same about the word 'reputable'. I don't consider myself a 'reputable' breeder at this time. Maybe in a few years, if and when I get a reputation, then I would be reputable. For now, I'm content to be 'responsible'. I do breed only standard Yorkies and have no other aspiration other than to one day produce an ideal Yorkie. In that sense, I am a breed purist. I do see the predicament of Parti breeders, though. While many may be in it just for the novelty and $, there are some within that community that have serious goals for their dogs. They have no venue to showcase their dedication. I mentioned in an earlier post that they maybe should have gone their own way 150 years ago and started a path as a separate breed. There obviously were Parti fanciers in those days. It seems like it may have been possible at the inception of the Kennel Club; now I"m not sure there is a remedy for them. If there are serious Parti breeders out there, I wouldn't automatically call them unethical but would judge them by their individual actions. O.K., I'll shut up now . __________________ ORANGUTANS ARE DYING FOR THE SAKE OF CHEAP PALM OIL....AND YOU USE IT!!! http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/ani...m-oil-you.html

02-25-2010, 04:31 PM	#101
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	[QUOTE=Nancy1999;3017803]You know, I read posts like this all the time on Yorkietalk and I wonder why other parti breeders don't speak up and say something. If someone had posted something like this concerning a standard yorkie, you could be sure that there would be other breeders speaking up, and saying that he should be evaluated before you decide to breed him. This is a perfect example of why I call parti breeders one-trait breeders. If you really do love the parti's, you will try and help other parti breeders become better breeders, not just help more breeders to become parti breeders.[/QUOTE Nancy, Where in the heck did you find that post? __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

02-25-2010, 04:58 PM	#103
yorkiegirl2 YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,394	Considering the pups is only 5 week and you cannot tell until he is older if he will be breed material. The fact that the person is a breeder and a member here probably knows what health clearances is needed . And If the person ask for advice I'm sure our Parti breeders will be more then willing to help her. I think we already have a Queen Bee who constantly want to give advice when not asked, tells everyone how they should breed or how to place their dogs. There is a time to give advice and a time to keep your nose out of others business.

02-25-2010, 07:19 PM	#105
yorkiegirl2 YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,394	I just find it insulting for a NON Breeder to tell a breeders how they should breed or sell their pups. If one asked how do I go about breeding or selling my Pups (advice asked for). Then by all means give them advice. Seeking out knowledgeable ethical breeders, come in more forms then just those from YTCA. We have many good NON show breeders. I also find it odd that when someone questions a show breeder there are those who jump on the person, "With how dare you question them". But when NON show breeders are questioned, nothing is really said. When we hear all the time it is good to question breeders. You seem to think all Parti breeder are one trait breeders. You know nothing about the hope and dreams of the serious Parti breeder. When YTCA change the founding standard to include the Bl & Tans and Lt. Blue and gold, they deviated from the standard to suit their needs. But change it back in 2007 to Steel Blue and Gold. Are ethical breeders going to stop breeding all those off color Champions that no longer fit the standard ? The answer we get is "Well its OK because it enhances the program". This is a double standard; It's either Right or Wrong. IMO..I would say 90% of breeders are not breeding to the color standard. Nothing is said about this but Parti breeders are being slammed for doing the same thing. Face it. Not everyone is going to agree on everything, that is just the way it is. One can have a love for more then just the standard color. As I see it Like it or Not the Parti's are here to stay.