I want a Biewer/parti yorkie

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

So if a breeder is AKC, they make an etical agreement to breed to the standard.

Thats the way I read it Pat.

Let me add, when signing your name on that YTCA membership paper, you are agreeing to abide by the YTCA Constitution, Code of Ethics/Conduct. Within these documents that if for any reason you are suspended from the AKC you are automatically suspended from YTCA.

We all know that AKC is a registery and over the past few years at has become about $$$$. However, The YTCA, as the Mother Club is bound to abide by AKC Rules and Regulations. But, being a breed club their by-laws and constitution are a bit more stringent as their primary purpose as the keeper of the breed, is to preserve and improve on it.

But, as you know Integrity, Ethics, and being reputable is something that can't be taught, these qualities are those that one is born with

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by mardelin

thats the way i read it pat.

Let me add, when signing your name on that ytca membership paper, you are agreeing to abide by the ytca constitution, code of ethics/conduct. Within these documents that if for any reason you are suspended from the akc you are automatically suspended from ytca.

We all know that akc is a registery and over the past few years at has become about $$$$. However, the ytca, as the mother club is bound to abide by akc rules and regulations. But, being a breed club their by-laws and constitution are a bit more stringent as their primary purpose as the keeper of the breed, is to preserve and improve on it.

But, as you know integrity, ethics, and being reputable is something that can't be taught, these qualities are those that one is born with

amen!!!!!!

[YorkieRose]

I needed to read Websters def again...sometimes we attribute ethic's to our practices with people and care of animals...but it goes so much further...and too many feel it only applies to the show breeder who is producing show dogs.

Ethic's can be taught...all things can be taught, then the breeder decides how they will proceed. Some do not know to do better until educated in ethical practices.

So, bottomline as I see it is this...if a breeder commits to abide by the AKC standard for the Yorkshire Terrier they will not deviate from standard colors in order to be considered ethcial.

Let me throw this out...can an AKC breeder use stock that is not standard in quality?
Can a breeder ethcially label themself as a "pet" breeder to avoid adhering to the standard?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Let me throw this out...can an AKC breeder use stock that is not standard in quality?
Can a breeder ethcially label themself as a "pet" breeder to avoid adhering to the standard?

I can only answer your question based on what I believe and was taught to me.

When I first started out I did a lot of reading & research. Keep in mind breeding was the furthest from my mind, all I wanted to do was show. And from all that reading, what really stuck. Was to get the best you needed to seek out the best that your money could buy. So, that is what I did (how I did that has been posted already). From that point and along the way I way I was lucky enough to befriend and obtain info from some of the greats. Now saying that, I was pet owner first and I viewed things very differently than what my views became after I began researching, attending shows and even more so after I began exhibiting.

Can a breeder ethcially label themself as a "pet" breeder to avoid adhering to the standard?

I guess one can do anything they want to justify their reasons for doing whatever it is they are doing.....does that make it right??????????????

Ethic's can be taught...all things can be taught, then the breeder decides how they will proceed. Some do not know to do better until educated in ethical practices.

I will agree with you on this but, expand a bit on it. This can be done if one has the basics down of what is right and wrong and are open to change.

[Breezeaway]

Ethics implies high standards of honest and honorable dealing, and of methods used, esp. in the professions or in business.
Just because the Parti breeders don't breed for the Standard color of the Yorkshire Terrier Does not make them unethical.
If you accuse someone of being unethical, it is equivalent of calling them unprofessional and may well be taken as a significant insult and perceived more personally than if you called them immoral.
I am not a member of the YTCA and have not signed any papers associated with them, so I do not adhere to their constitution or code of ethics/conduct for said CLUB.
Don't you believe you are acting unethical by calling others that, when you have no idea about them?
It really isnt moral or ethical for some of you to come on a thread about partis when you have none and spout about how unethical we really are.
Beware of transgressing the other person's morals, as this is particularly how they will judge you.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Ethics implies high standards of honest and honorable dealing, and of methods used, esp. in the professions or in business.
Just because the Parti breeders don't breed for the Standard color of the Yorkshire Terrier Does not make them unethical.
If you accuse someone of being unethical, it is equivalent of calling them unprofessional and may well be taken as a significant insult and perceived more personally than if you called them immoral.
I am not a member of the YTCA and have not signed any papers associated with them, so I do not adhere to their constitution or code of ethics/conduct for said CLUB.
Don't you believe you are acting unethical by calling others that, when you have no idea about them?
It really isnt moral or ethical for some of you to come on a thread about partis when you have none and spout about how unethical we really are.
Beware of transgressing the other person's morals, as this is particularly how they will judge you.

Where else but on a dog forum should we judge breeding ethics? I'm not judging you as a person; I am judging you as yorkie breeder. I encourage everyone to judge for themselves, but its not that easy to get people to understand WHY it's important to support those who are breeding for one purpose only and that's to improve the breed. To suggest that only people who breed or own Parti's should reply to Parti threads leads to a pretty one sided argument. I understand that I will never change the Parti breeders minds, but I hope I can influence new people, and try to get them to understand why breeding to standard is so important for the "future" of the Yorkshire terrier. I personally believe that any breeder who breeds a fault and markets it as an "asset" is an unethical breeder.

[TammyJM]

I wasn't going to post any longer in this thread because I really don't care to after flat being told that I am a bad breeder for raising partis. However, I am reading post after post, patting each other on the back, while saying how a 'reputable' person breeds to AKC standards and that the members of YTCA adhere to those rules. Hmmmm, well I know that I have read on YT many times how some of you will breed a Yorkie that is not steel blue and tan to "enhance" or to acheive certain color in your puppies. I have also read that you breed larger than 7lbs....I have been specifically told this by one breeder within this thread. So are we, the parti breeders, the only ones that are not ethical, since you, too, breed outside of the standard?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

I wasn't going to post any longer in this thread because I really don't care to after flat being told that I am a bad breeder for raising partis. However, I am reading post after post, patting each other on the back, while saying how a 'reputable' person breeds to AKC standards and that the members of YTCA adhere to those rules. Hmmmm, well I know that I have read on YT many times how some of you will breed a Yorkie that is not steel blue and tan to "enhance" or to acheive certain color in your puppies. I have also read that you breed larger than 7lbs....I have been specifically told this by one breeder within this thread. So are we, the parti breeders, the only ones that are not ethical, since you, too, breed outside of the standard?

You have to look at the goal, they are hoping to produce a great example within standard. Breeding a dog over 7 pounds does not mean you are trying to market a larger yorkie, you may be trying to improve on hair or structure or one of the many other things that are important. I think of it as breeding TO standard.

[Brooklynn]

I for one can say I don't breed anything over 7 pounds as all my dogs are under seven pounds actually mine range from 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 pounds a perfect size for me. I neutred my first yorkie champion because he was too light as in silver and he has a MAGNIFICANT pedigree and he didn't quite have the topline I wanted so now he's neutered and living at home as my pet.
When I take a show dog for evaluation here is my criteria....first of all I want health being of the utmost importance and then I go for structure and movement as in front and rears and then I evaluate the head ie face and ear set and the bite. I always say 3 faults and off to a pet home they go. Tri-color (Parti) being a MAJOR FAULT and would immediately be placed in a pet home regardless of structure and movement.
I will say that Radar is not a perfect "dark" steel blue but he is a steel blue but he is within the standard. Would I take a yorkie into the ring with an undershot bite? NOOOOOOOO, will I take a yorkie into the ring with floppy ears? NOOOOOOOo would I take in a yorkie that is off colored? NOOOOOOOO...is there a perfect yorkie out there? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO BUT if I had a parti puppy in my litter the first thing I would do is spay and neuter both sire and dam and puppies and start over because that is NOT what the standard calls for and not what I want to produce or have pop up in my lines. Would I use a yorkie with floppy ears in my breeding program no because that is hard to breed out and so is the bite so they wouldn't be used in my breeding program. But every breeder has what fault they can live with. But all those I have mentioned are not a DQ.
Can I live with a slightly wide ear set "absolutely"...can I live with a little lighter in color "absolutely" if they have everything else going for them and is as close to the standard as possible I will show them.
When the standard calls for a tri-colored yorkie and it be allowed to show then I may see things differently but until then I will continue to disagree with them being bred. But don't hate me for how I believe as I don't hate anyone for how they believe. As I've stated ....if the speed limit is 55 and you go 70 you are breaking the law and will most likely get a speeding ticket eventually and you know it's wrong...rules/standards are a way of life, you either adhere to them or not...

Respectively,
Donna Bird

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Ethics implies high standards of honest and honorable dealing, and of methods used, esp. in the professions or in business.
Just because the Parti breeders don't breed for the Standard color of the Yorkshire Terrier Does not make them unethical.
If you accuse someone of being unethical, it is equivalent of calling them unprofessional and may well be taken as a significant insult and perceived more personally than if you called them immoral.
I am not a member of the YTCA and have not signed any papers associated with them, so I do not adhere to their constitution or code of ethics/conduct for said CLUB.
Don't you believe you are acting unethical by calling others that, when you have no idea about them?
It really isnt moral or ethical for some of you to come on a thread about partis when you have none and spout about how unethical we really are.
Beware of transgressing the other person's morals, as this is particularly how they will judge you.

I don't believe I've called anyone unethical but I do disagree with breeding Parti's...it's not what the standard calls for whether or not you are a member of the YTCA or not, it's still the yorkshire terrier standard. I can only see this in black and white and it's plain on the nose on my face that no where in the standard does the standard call for a tri-colored yorkie.
Of course I'm not a pet breeder but a show breeder and I'm a member of the YTCA so I have signed the code of conduct/ethics so I will adhere to it plain and simple. Pet breeders will do what they want regardless of what I say anyway because we just disagree.

Donna

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

You have to look at the goal, they are hoping to produce a great example within standard. Breeding a dog over 7 pounds does not mean you are trying to market a larger yorkie, you may be trying to improve on hair or structure or one of the many other things that are important. I think of it as breeding TO standard.

You are absolutely correct! I personally don't breed anything over seven pounds or under 5 pounds. I couldn't say in the future I wouldn't breed a yorkie that was 7 1/2 pounds as it's a minor fault and if this yorkie was exceptionally well and weighed slightly over 7 pounds I wouldn't discard it especially if he/she had something that would add to my program as in color, good ear set or a good bite. Note...I said "minor" fault and not a "major" fault nor is it a DQ.

Donna

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I don't believe I've called anyone unethical but I do disagree with breeding Parti's...it's not what the standard calls for whether or not you are a member of the YTCA or not, it's still the yorkshire terrier standard. I can only see this in black and white and it's plain on the nose on my face that no where in the standard does the standard call for a tri-colored yorkie.
Of course I'm not a pet breeder but a show breeder and I'm a member of the YTCA so I have signed the code of conduct/ethics so I will adhere to it plain and simple. Pet breeders will do what they want regardless of what I say anyway because we just disagree.

Donna

Donna,

I'm gonna a bit of topic, but not much. I've been doing a lot of research on what makes a great breeder. Really looking for an article that was posted on a list we both belong to....describing how to achieve Greatness but describing the following Novice breeder, beginner, Mediocre, Good and Great Breeder. But, anyway......every article I've read, whether it be on a Lab, Collie, Sheltie, Poodle, Greyhound, GS.....every single one says to achieve Greatness, join a breed club, attend shows.......but most of all breed to the standard of the breed you have picked and if you aren't doing this then you shouldn't be breeding.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

You are absolutely correct! I personally don't breed anything over seven pounds or under 5 pounds. I couldn't say in the future I wouldn't breed a yorkie that was 7 1/2 pounds as it's a minor fault and if this yorkie was exceptionally well and weighed slightly over 7 pounds I wouldn't discard it especially if he/she had something that would add to my program as in color, good ear set or a good bite. Note...I said "minor" fault and not a "major" fault nor is it a DQ.

Donna

Agreed, but one has to look at the total picture of what is behind this dog (the size and weight of dogs within the dogs line).

Now understood that the Standard is there for us to guide our breeding but, it is also there to judge the quality of our show/breeding dogs.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Donna,

I'm gonna a bit of topic, but not much. I've been doing a lot of research on what makes a great breeder. Really looking for an article that was posted on a list we both belong to....describing how to achieve Greatness but describing the following Novice breeder, beginner, Mediocre, Good and Great Breeder. But, anyway......every article I've read, whether it be on a Lab, Collie, Sheltie, Poodle, Greyhound, GS.....every single one says to achieve Greatness, join a breed club, attend shows.......but most of all breed to the standard of the breed you have picked and if you aren't doing this then you shouldn't be breeding.

I remember that! YOu need to find that and post it! I was GREAT!

[YorkieRose]

I regret any hurt feelings...I have had my feeling hurt many times in dogs.

... forget about YTCA and regional clubs. Many are not members and might feel they are not effected by codes etc.

So, that leaves AKC membership. They have a standard for each breed. It is a guide to producing a pup of any given breed..it must be used as a foundation for breeding...when it is not used, Yorkies begin to take on that mixed look and people start posting.."IS MY YORKIE A YORKIE"...

Is it unethcial to judge others as breeders?..No, I do not feel so. We must judge and evaluate each other, keep each other in check, answer to each other in order to safe guard the breed. IS it unethcial to judge your MD or mechanic etc..whatever we produce is up for inspection and evaluation.

Do show breeders follow all the codes and bylaws..so they all use the best of the breeder for breeding...no way.

Ethic's has nothing to do with what club or clubs a breeder belongs to..but simple pride in doing what is correct for the breed to the best of their ability.