I want a Biewer/parti yorkie

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

First of all, I am glad you do not sell your dogs with breeding rights; this is one of the qualities in a breeder that I think is good. I am surprised so many of you are surprised about this though; you do realize that there are breeders who breed for profit? I'm not saying that you will ever make a dime breeding Parti's, in fact, it could turn out to be a very poor investment. I'm only saying that is the motivation factor for many. It is a fad among many breeds, not just yorkies. Not just puppy millers breed for profit. I don't think most breeders breed for the right reasons, not just parti breeders, so I'm not singling parti breeders out.

I never said that the people who breed Parti's were not nice people, their qualities as a human being has very little to do with how they breed. We all know examples of very religious wonderful people, being bad breeders. I'm concerned because so many of you seem to be in denial about the problem, you act like the only people who sell Parti's are your friends and members of Yorkietalk. I have not attacked anyone on a personal level. I wish I didn't feel so strongly about breeding to standard, and why it's important, many of you parti breeders do seem like wonderful people, I wish you wouldn't take my opinions personally. There does seem to be a conscientious group of parti breeders on this forum, however, am I supposed to change my viewpoints because I like you? I do not believe we know enough about the recessive gene yet to breed for it, many maladies attach themselves to the recessive gene, instead of denying this, I hope you keep in contact with puppy buyers, and let others know if something starts cropping up. I also don't think that the Yorkshire terrier has not been a breed long enough to introduce new colors. As a breed, it's only been around about 100 years, and not that many yorkies are being bred with a proper coat. The yorkie standard is a very difficult one to obtain, genetics wise, you need so many things working together. On the other hand, the parti color is NOT a difficult one to obtain. Once you have a parti colored dog, it cannot produce a dog without the parti gene. I guess I could see a time in the future, where it was easy to get a great healthy example of the breed, and at that point I could see why we might like to introduce more variety. I really don't see this now, I wish all breeders were more interested in health, but I don't think more variety in looks should be introduced until we get the health factor under control.

First of all, my dogs were not ever an "investment"....they are part of our family! This statement of yours confuses me, "I never said that the people who breed Parti's were not nice people, their qualities as a human being has very little to do with how they breed.". It's the last part of it that bothers me. Do you honestly think that a person's moral make-up has NOTHING to do with their breeding practices??? How in the world can you really believe that?! I am someone that believes that a person's heart shines through their actions. I firmly believe that my "qualities as a human being" has EVERYTHING to do with how I have bred!! I can respect your opinion on certain things but feel you are way off base on this one, though.

As for parti breeders....no, a person should not trust all of them....no more than one should put full faith in a show breeder. You keep saying that we are introducing more variety into the breed, but the tri-color has been there....we are not adding some new gene. It's the YTCA that created what they desired the standard to be...they are the ones that formed the "look" of the Yorkshire Terrier. However, just because it is in writing does not mean that the genetics of the parti just disappear.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

First of all, my dogs were not ever an "investment"....they are part of our family! This statement of yours confuses me, "I never said that the people who breed Parti's were not nice people, their qualities as a human being has very little to do with how they breed.". It's the last part of it that bothers me. Do you honestly think that a person's moral make-up has NOTHING to do with their breeding practices??? How in the world can you really believe that?! I am someone that believes that a person's heart shines through their actions. I firmly believe that my "qualities as a human being" has EVERYTHING to do with how I have bred!! I can respect your opinion on certain things but feel you are way off base on this one, though.

As for parti breeders....no, a person should not trust all of them....no more than one should put full faith in a show breeder. You keep saying that we are introducing more variety into the breed, but the tri-color has been there....we are not adding some new gene. It's the YTCA that created what they desired the standard to be...they are the ones that formed the "look" of the Yorkshire Terrier. However, just because it is in writing does not mean that the genetics of the parti just disappear.

Absolutely....a good breeder has ethics, morals and the list could go on and on. I despise people who use religion to sell dogs and treat them so cruel and think it is okay.

Unless people read about the history, not just assume these kind of discussions will go on and on. I really have been quite surprised at the lack of research done on the Yorkies. There is so much information in England if people want to know.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

First of all, my dogs were not ever an "investment"....they are part of our family! This statement of yours confuses me, "I never said that the people who breed Parti's were not nice people, their qualities as a human being has very little to do with how they breed.". It's the last part of it that bothers me. Do you honestly think that a person's moral make-up has NOTHING to do with their breeding practices??? How in the world can you really believe that?! I am someone that believes that a person's heart shines through their actions. I firmly believe that my "qualities as a human being" has EVERYTHING to do with how I have bred!! I can respect your opinion on certain things but feel you are way off base on this one, though.

As for parti breeders....no, a person should not trust all of them....no more than one should put full faith in a show breeder. You keep saying that we are introducing more variety into the breed, but the tri-color has been there....we are not adding some new gene. It's the YTCA that created what they desired the standard to be...they are the ones that formed the "look" of the Yorkshire Terrier. However, just because it is in writing does not mean that the genetics of the parti just disappear.

I didn't say "NOTHING", I said "very little", details are very important. Look at the Amish, I think they are very moral wonderful people, but I think they are very poor breeders of dogs. There are a lot more parti breeders on this forum, than those who speak up for importance of breeding to standard. I'm the one that feels bullied.

Floppy ears have been there too, should we start breeding for it because they are cute? I happen to love floppy ears, but I would not support a breeder who bred for them. I think a breeder should find a breed they love, and breed for a great representative of it, I don't think they should try to change standard. Yes, the YTCA is the mother club, and they are there to protect the club standard, if no one did that, the yorkie wouldn't have any identity. Don't you try to choose other qualities of standard that you think are important, If you can see that breeding other qualities of standard is important, than you could see why breeding all qualities of standard is important. If you don't think breeding any qualities of standard is important, than I wonder why you choose a particular breed to breed? For me, it really is an all or nothing thing, you can't just pick and choose the qualities you like. Some breeders love curly haired yorkies, do you think they should breed them even if they love the look? I realize it's a free country, and people can do what they want, but I don't think this is really protecting the breed. So they may be a wonderful person, but they are not a good breeder in my opinion.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I didn't say "NOTHING", I said "very little", details are very important. Look at the Amish, I think they are very moral wonderful people, but I think they are very poor breeders of dogs. There are a lot more parti breeders on this forum, than those who speak up for importance of breeding to standard. I'm the one that feels bullied.

Floppy ears have been there too, should we start breeding for it because they are cute? I happen to love floppy ears, but I would not support a breeder who bred for them. I think a breeder should find a breed they love, and breed for a great representative of it, I don't think they should try to change standard. Yes, the YTCA is the mother club, and they are there to protect the club standard, if no one did that, the yorkie wouldn't have any identity. Don't you try to choose other qualities of standard that you think are important, If you can see that breeding other qualities of standard is important, than you could see why breeding all qualities of standard is important. If you don't think breeding any qualities of standard is important, than I wonder why you choose a particular breed to breed? For me, it really is an all or nothing thing, you can't just pick and choose the qualities you like. Some breeders love curly haired yorkies, do you think they should breed them even if they love the look? I realize it's a free country, and people can do what they want, but I don't think this is really protecting the breed. So they may be a wonderful person, but they are not a good breeder in my opinion.

So you have your opinion....those of us that breed the parti are, in your words, "not a good breeder". What I find so ironic is the fact that you seem do your research and like to learn, but yet are so close-minded on this. You have written about the studies that you have done about genetics but again, close-minded on the parti.

I am a GREAT breeder....one that just happens to love the tri-color Yorkie. I go back to what I have said in the past. The standard was created by a group of people that wanted the Yorkie to look they way that they preferred. If they had said that the parti was acceptable, you would then say it was okay. But since this particular group decided that they like a steel blue and tan, straight haired, toy sized Yorkie....all of a sudden, we are suppose to forget about how the Yorkie began. Why is that the YTCA gets to say what they prefer, but those of us that love the parti are wrong. Double standard, indeed!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

So you have your opinion....those of us that breed the parti are, in your words, "not a good breeder". What I find so ironic is the fact that you seem do your research and like to learn, but yet are so close-minded on this. You have written about the studies that you have done about genetics but again, close-minded on the parti.

I am a GREAT breeder....one that just happens to love the tri-color Yorkie. I go back to what I have said in the past. The standard was created by a group of people that wanted the Yorkie to look they way that they preferred. If they had said that the parti was acceptable, you would then say it was okay. But since this particular group decided that they like a steel blue and tan, straight haired, toy sized Yorkie....all of a sudden, we are suppose to forget about how the Yorkie began. Why is that the YTCA gets to say what they prefer, but those of us that love the parti are wrong. Double standard, indeed!

I wish you would address my other questions, instead of just focusing on my opinion of those who don't breed to standard.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I wish you would address my other questions, instead of just focusing on my opinion of those who don't breed to standard.

And what questions are those? Whatever they are, it all goes back to how you dislike the breeding of partis and how you like to compare the beautiful tri-color to other traits that you consider poor. Does this sum it up? I mean really, whatelse do you need for me to answer? You can CLEARLY see what I am saying and how I feel...what did I miss? How you compared the floppy ears or a curly coat to the parti?? You don't think that I answered you already? I'm pretty sure I did in my last post.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

For me, it really is an all or nothing thing, you can't just pick and choose the qualities you like.

This is kind of funny to me because it is EXACTLY what a the members of the YTCA have done.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

This is kind of funny to me because it is EXACTLY what a the members of the YTCA have done.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

And what questions are those? Whatever they are, it all goes back to how you dislike the breeding of partis and how you like to compare the beautiful tri-color to other traits that you consider poor. Does this sum it up? I mean really, whatelse do you need for me to answer? You can CLEARLY see what I am saying and how I feel...what did I miss? How you compared the floppy ears or a curly coat to the parti?? You don't think that I answered you already? I'm pretty sure I did in my last post.

Tammy, it has nothing to do with my dislikes for the the tri/color, or parti, where did you get that idea? I think some are very beautiful. I really have tried to explain why a breeder shouldn't pick what part of standard he accepts. Who says, floppy ears can't be compared, lots of people love floppy ears. I read of many members saying they love their yorkies permed like coat, personally, I don't like curly hair, but this is not the reason I'm against breeding for it. A good breeder, in my opinion, should work within standard, and put their touch on those things that are still within standard. You seem to be saying that I should be in favor of supporting all breeders, or all breeders who breed to standard, except for the parti color.

Unlike the AKC, the YTCA is not a business, its a group of breeders who love the breed, and want to do what's right for it. I'm not saying that every YTCA breeder is wonderful, just in case I have to add that. Are you against all breed clubs? What's the purpose of breeding a purebred, do you think you can take a purebred, and breed for whatever qualities you personally like? Obviously, you seem to think that, but I think it's wrong.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Tammy, it has nothing to do with my dislikes for the the tri/color, or parti, where did you get that idea? I think some are very beautiful. I really have tried to explain why a breeder shouldn't pick what part of standard he accepts. Who says, floppy ears can't be compared, lots of people love floppy ears. I read of many members saying they love their yorkies permed like coat, personally, I don't like curly hair, but this is not the reason I'm against breeding for it. A good breeder, in my opinion, should work within standard, and put their touch on those things that are still within standard. You seem to be saying that I should be in favor of supporting all breeders, or all breeders who breed to standard, except for the parti color.

Unlike the AKC, the YTCA is not a business, its a group of breeders who love the breed, and want to do what's right for it. I'm not saying that every YTCA breeder is wonderful, just in case I have to add that. Are you against all breed clubs? What's the purpose of breeding a purebred, do you think you can take a purebred, and breed for whatever qualities you personally like? Obviously, you seem to think that, but I think it's wrong.

Oh my....your last two sentences show that you have TOTALLY missed my point(s). Also, I never said that you dislike the tricolor...I said you have written about your dislike of breeding them. As for asking me if I am against all breed clubs.... Nancy, I am against a group of people telling me, a grown woman with opinions, what is right and wrong. I will not follow the crowd just because someone tells me that they have decided what the acceptable rules are...those "rules", mind you, have been created based on their own personal likes/dislikes. I have my own mind, my own likes/dislikes....I do not need to follow what others tell me to do. I feel that my opinion(s) are just as valuable as someone else. I have bred my parti Yorkie because I love the color and she just as much of a Yorkshire Terrier as those that you say are bred to the standard.

I have no idea what you are saying or asking with this statement: "You seem to be saying that I should be in favor of supporting all breeders, or all breeders who breed to standard, except for the parti color." I cannot even begin to answer this because it doesn't make sense to me.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Unlike the AKC, the YTCA is not a business, its a group of breeders who love the breed, and want to do what's right for it. I'm not saying that every YTCA breeder is wonderful, just in case I have to add that. Are you against all breed clubs? What's the purpose of breeding a purebred, do you think you can take a purebred, and breed for whatever qualities you personally like? Obviously, you seem to think that, but I think it's wrong.

I am not fond of "breed clubs" who only allow into the club, a selected group of people - though there are a lot of AKC "breed clubs" that only allow invited and approved members not just YTCA. I feel that if you want to join a "breed club", it should be open to all who want to join (in the horse world that's how it works, at least with the breeds that I've owned).

Since the YTCA is a "Breed Club," I feel that offspring who are born from purebred parents, should have as much of a right to their breed heritage, as those who are "correctly colored" (according to the standards).

A purebred is a purebred ... period! Or maybe I'm wrong ... is a purebred only a purebred if they meet the breed clubs standards?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I am not fond of "breed clubs" who only allow into the club, a selected group of people - though there are a lot of AKC "breed clubs" that only allow invited and approved members not just YTCA. I feel that if you want to join a "breed club", it should be open to all who want to join (in the horse world that's how it works, at least with the breeds that I've owned).

Since the YTCA is a "Breed Club," I feel that offspring who are born from purebred parents, should have as much of a right to their breed heritage, as those who are "correctly colored" (according to the standards).

A purebred is a purebred ... period! Or maybe I'm wrong ... is a purebred only a purebred if they meet the breed clubs standards?

If a breed club were to accept anyone who wanted to join, the millers would be in charge of the breed clubs. The mother club, should be just like a good mother, and protect the breed, of course they have to be careful who they let in, they want to know you for several years and what your ethics are before accepting you. It's not just about being nice or knowledgeable. I'm really surprised; some of you seem to fail to understand the importance of having a good breed club whose primary interest is the future of the breed. Not all breeds have had good breed clubs that have been protective, and purebreds have gotten a bad rap because of it, many breeds are in serious trouble because clubs picked up on the latest fad, without knowing the long-term health impacts. Unfortunately, the term purebred may have no real meaning in the future, it no longer means a quality dog that is suppose to look and act a certain way. Don't blame the mother club for that.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I am not fond of "breed clubs" who only allow into the club, a selected group of people - though there are a lot of AKC "breed clubs" that only allow invited and approved members not just YTCA. I feel that if you want to join a "breed club", it should be open to all who want to join (in the horse world that's how it works, at least with the breeds that I've owned).

Since the YTCA is a "Breed Club," I feel that offspring who are born from purebred parents, should have as much of a right to their breed heritage, as those who are "correctly colored" (according to the standards).

A purebred is a purebred ... period! Or maybe I'm wrong ... is a purebred only a purebred if they meet the breed clubs standards?

You can join a breed club in your area...and yes a Parti is considered a yorkie but it's a fault within the breed standard and not CORRECT and if you are breeding to the breed standard then you should want to achieve that not deviate from it so breeding a Parti is deviating away from the breed standard so therefore in my opinion should not be bred but petted out.
This is all I'm going to say on the subject.....it's MY OPINION and I will stand behind it! Nancy I feel you have every right to state your opinion just like anyone else has a right too and so be it if anyone disagrees with it because I feel the same way you do Nancy and most know how I feel

Donna

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

If a breed club were to accept anyone who wanted to join, the millers would be in charge of the breed clubs. The mother club, should be just like a good mother, and protect the breed, of course they have to be careful who they let in, they want to know you for several years and what your ethics are before accepting you. It's not just about being nice or knowledgeable. I'm really surprised; some of you seem to fail to understand the importance of having a good breed club whose primary interest is the future of the breed. Not all breeds have had good breed clubs that have been protective, and purebreds have gotten a bad rap because of it, many breeds are in serious trouble because clubs picked up on the latest fad, without knowing the long-term health impacts. Unfortunately, the term purebred may have no real meaning in the future, it no longer means a quality dog that is suppose to look and act a certain way. Don't blame the mother club for that.

Yes, a good mother should protect it's offspring but not reject a child because it is different from what they (or a group of people) perceive as being perfect or ideal. A breed club should be open for all to join and the show ring is where a dog should be judged.

As much as I'd like to join the the YTCA because I breed parti colored yorkies, I wouldn't have a chance at joining it. It wouldn't matter if I had the most perfect steel blue and tan dog, I'd be tarred and feathered before I could send in my membership application

When I raised Morgan horses, the standard was dark horses (bay, black, brown, chestnut) with little to no white but when my bright red colt was born with rear stockings that ran above his hocks, a blaze that wrapped around his face and a 4 inch belly spot (he's one of the first double registered pinto morgans), I watched him grow, decided to put my horse where my mouth was and in the show ring he went.

The American Morgan Horse Association was open to all and though I was told that most Morgan judges wouldn't even look at my colorful colt, I was lucky enough to get a judge with an open mind and she looked beyond his color and saw the horse. Competing in a class against 5 bay, 2 yo stallions who had no white, my odd colored boy won reserve champion, than went on to win reserve showing against the winning weanlings, yearlings and 2 yo. stallions.

My point is that I was able to show my pinto morgan in an "A" rated Morgan show because the breed club was open to all. It makes me sad that I'm unable to have that same opportunity with my colorful AKC registered yorkies.

[Micah my love]

WOW they are beautiful horses