A Little Advice, Please

[jackson25]

Originally Posted by ellabee

sorry, I am a new member and shouldn't be fishing around the breeder talk...but while I am in here, what I was looking for is what is considered full term for a pup? How many days? Please & thanks!!

If you are meaning full term for pregnant yorkie that is about 63 days, depending on when she was breed to her cycle.

[Woogie Man]

Welcome to YorkieTalk, Ellabee. Is your Yorkie pregnant? I thought I saw what looks like a shaved belly in your avatar pic.

Yeah, it is a lot like social work, I suppose. They are, after all, our furkids.

[jacquelinebabco]

I thought this subject would get a lot of opinions. i thought long and hard about just this before I purchased a puppy. I am 63 and single with no family I would entrust my babies to. I made sure the breeder would take the puppy back should something happen to me and it was what put my mind at ease about getting another pup. My mom and I live together and she is home with my furkids all day and does just fine with them at age 96. She is more active than I am and still drives to her job as a volunteer for a battered women. I have longevity on my side but would never even think about a dog without considering a long term plan for my babies. I am sure the woman would be more than happy to discuss her future plans should something happen to her. If she has lived to 80 as a happy, healthy, woman I am sure she is smart enough to know she isn't going to live forever and she wants her future dog taken care of, even after her death.
Your a great breeder to think about this and ponder with your decision. Fortunately I have made eternal plans for all of my dogs and anyone and everyone in my life knows of my plans.

[normarae63]

Originally Posted by jacquelinebabco

I thought this subject would get a lot of opinions. i thought long and hard about just this before I purchased a puppy. I am 63 and single with no family I would entrust my babies to. I made sure the breeder would take the puppy back should something happen to me and it was what put my mind at ease about getting another pup. My mom and I live together and she is home with my furkids all day and does just fine with them at age 96. She is more active than I am and still drives to her job as a volunteer for a battered women. I have longevity on my side but would never even think about a dog without considering a long term plan for my babies. I am sure the woman would be more than happy to discuss her future plans should something happen to her. If she has lived to 80 as a happy, healthy, woman I am sure she is smart enough to know she isn't going to live forever and she wants her future dog taken care of, even after her death.
Your a great breeder to think about this and ponder with your decision. Fortunately I have made eternal plans for all of my dogs and anyone and everyone in my life knows of my plans.

Great post!
I'm one of those folks who really believe that death is just 1 small part in the cycle of life. I'm only 46 but if something were to happen to me, my daughter would become Tuffys momma.

I think it's wonderful that so much thought goes into sending a pup off to its forever homes by thoughtful breeders, bravo to you!

[ellabee]

thanks, Woogie Man! One last post from me and I will leave the breeder talk section!

My Billie is not pregnant, thats just her latest in a long line of sketchy groomings since I've had her (almost 1 year now, she is 6 yrs old this month).

I spoke to her breeder this morning as I am getting a puppy from her, and the litter was born on Friday at 57 days, which she told me is premature. But when I got off the phone, I wanted to learn what her proper full term due date would have been, so I can then count from that date the 12 week window prior to being able to bring one of these babies home

I figured this would be the section where I would learn (and did, thanks!) what full term would be. Thanks for the welcome & the info, I am very content to raise and love these little ones, breeding would be far too large an emotional (and more) investment for me - I have the utmost respect for you guys and am so so very thankful for the little ones in my world as a result of your commitment to the breed.

[Woogie Man]

Jacqueline, your post certainly helps put things in perspective. It's interesting that it actually helped you in making your decision to know your breeder would take her back if necessary. Actually, I find your whole post interesting and refreshing and I loved hearing about your Mom. She sounds priceless and you seem like a very practical and caring person. Thanks for posting!

Ellabee, sorry for the mistake. I just thought I saw a shaved belly and, with your question, thought maybe that was the reason for your asking. My bad.

Congratulations on getting your new baby! You must be so excited. Have you broken the news to Billie that she's going to be a big sister?

[jacquelinebabco]

Woggie Man, please keep us posted on your decision and what came into play to make that decision. Your one wonderful breeder. Keep up the great work in placing your little angels.

[livingdustmops]

I am going to add this even though a lot of people don't want to hear this but there is not a reputable rescue that would adopt a puppy to someone 80 years of age. The word here is puppy.

There are to many senior Yorkies that need homes and this person might be a good choice but to take a dog with the potential of living 15-18 years then you are more interested in the sale to the person and not what is right for the dog.

Most 80 year olds do not have the energy to keep up with a puppy or even to potty train the dog. Maybe right now they do but try 5 years or 10 years...

Sorry to upset the apple cart on this one but I am very opposed to a 8 month old puppy going into a 80 year old home...yes the person could out live the dog but only because the dog died an early death.

I would suggest a rescue who has an senior yorkie that needs a home.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I am going to add this even though a lot of people don't want to hear this but there is not a reputable rescue that would adopt a puppy to someone 80 years of age. The word here is puppy.

There are to many senior Yorkies that need homes and this person might be a good choice but to take a dog with the potential of living 15-18 years then you are more interested in the sale to the person and not what is right for the dog.

Most 80 year olds do not have the energy to keep up with a puppy or even to potty train the dog. Maybe right now they do but try 5 years or 10 years...

Sorry to upset the apple cart on this one but I am very opposed to a 8 month old puppy going into a 80 year old home...yes the person could out live the dog but only because the dog died an early death.

I would suggest a rescue who has an senior yorkie that needs a home.

Well, I think you have to be flexible, and understand not all 80 year olds are alike. Also, it's only the first year or two where you have to "keep" up with Yorkies. I think a rescue is a great idea too, but shouldn't that be her decision not the breeder's decision?

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I am going to add this even though a lot of people don't want to hear this but there is not a reputable rescue that would adopt a puppy to someone 80 years of age. The word here is puppy.

There are to many senior Yorkies that need homes and this person might be a good choice but to take a dog with the potential of living 15-18 years then you are more interested in the sale to the person and not what is right for the dog.

Most 80 year olds do not have the energy to keep up with a puppy or even to potty train the dog. Maybe right now they do but try 5 years or 10 years...

Sorry to upset the apple cart on this one but I am very opposed to a 8 month old puppy going into a 80 year old home...yes the person could out live the dog but only because the dog died an early death.

I would suggest a rescue who has an senior yorkie that needs a home.

Thanks for your input, Cindy. You're only voicing some of the same concerns I have but I started this thread, not only for input on this situation, but as something to discuss that others may be confronted with at some time.

I think, in this case, we're not talking about the 'typical' 80 year old. I'm not sure if there's some cut-off point in a person's life where you should not consider them based on age. What would it be? 80..75..70... 65...? Just read the obituaries and the ages are all over the place. I'm in my 50's and see plenty of folks dying in my age group. Your point is well taken, but it's not so cut and dried to me.

I did ask the question earlier about recommending a retired female or rescue to her if a younger dog wasn't appropriate. Also, I would add that most girls settle down at about age 3 and aren't the chore that a young dog can be. By that age, they are more just another member of the family.

I did speak to her vet yesterday and the vet was quite surprised when I mentioned my concerns about her being 80. She told me she would have figured her to be no more than 70, at most. She did tell me that the lady and her husband were both in very good shape, were active, took vacations, and had local family and were very good owners with their previous dog.

Just to clarify, I'm not more interested in making a sale than the welfare of my dogs. If I was, I wouldn't have an 8 month old to be talking about...she would have been long gone. I think you were speaking generally, but I just wanted to clarify.

As Nancy said, I think maybe a little flexibility in our thinking might be in order. What may have been true 20 years ago might not apply today. The fastest growing age group in the U.S. is centenarians.

As I said before, Tessa's welfare is my main concern. I brought it up here because, as I said, I was unsure and I thought it might be useful to see a discussion about it. BTW, I'm still unsure. Placing our babies is something that can be a struggle as we seek to find that 'ideal' home.

Jim

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Well, I think you have to be flexible, and understand not all 80 year olds are alike. Also, it's only the first year or two where you have to "keep" up with Yorkies. I think a rescue is a great idea too, but shouldn't that be her decision not the breeder's decision?

I had two Yorkies come into rescue that were bought by 75 and 78 year old people...They were both dead within 5 years and 1 in 1 year. IMHO it is very selfish for a 80 year old person to get a puppy knowing they probably won't live as long as the dog but it still boils down to it is the breeders responsibility to place their dogs in the right home. If they are comfortable knowing this dog could go into another home or two then that is their option.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Thanks for your input, Cindy. You're only voicing some of the same concerns I have but I started this thread, not only for input on this situation, but as something to discuss that others may be confronted with at some time.

I think, in this case, we're not talking about the 'typical' 80 year old. I'm not sure if there's some cut-off point in a person's life where you should not consider them based on age. What would it be? 80..75..70... 65...? Just read the obituaries and the ages are all over the place. I'm in my 50's and see plenty of folks dying in my age group. Your point is well taken, but it's not so cut and dried to me.

I did ask the question earlier about recommending a retired female or rescue to her if a younger dog wasn't appropriate. Also, I would add that most girls settle down at about age 3 and aren't the chore that a young dog can be. By that age, they are more just another member of the family.

I did speak to her vet yesterday and the vet was quite surprised when I mentioned my concerns about her being 80. She told me she would have figured her to be no more than 70, at most. She did tell me that the lady and her husband were both in very good shape, were active, took vacations, and had local family and were very good owners with their previous dog.

Just to clarify, I'm not more interested in making a sale than the welfare of my dogs. If I was, I wouldn't have an 8 month old to be talking about...she would have been long gone. I think you were speaking generally, but I just wanted to clarify.

As Nancy said, I think maybe a little flexibility in our thinking might be in order. What may have been true 20 years ago might not apply today. The fastest growing age group in the U.S. is centenarians.

As I said before, Tessa's welfare is my main concern. I brought it up here because, as I said, I was unsure and I thought it might be useful to see a discussion about it. BTW, I'm still unsure. Placing our babies is something that can be a struggle as we seek to find that 'ideal' home.

Jim

The cutoff we had in our rescue was 70 but if the person was willing to talk about an adult dog then we have placed some of the rescue's in those homes with the full understanding the dog came back to us or we met the children of these people and how involved they were with the dog.

Just dealing with statistics but what are the odds this person will outlive their yorkie if the dog stays healthy...and how sharp will they be. I clearly think someone 60 has a bigger chance then someone 80. My mother passed at 85 and was still driving, taking care of hospice patients, heavily involved in her church etc..and in one day she was gone. Her mother and grandmother lived to be 99 but both were bedridden. My mother loved dogs but fully understood it was not fair if she passed and no one would take her dog...she knew I would but she was in Michigan and I was in Colorado... so she helped foster and she helped raise $$$ for the rescue...

Every breeder has to make choices but 80 to me for a puppy is ......

My girlfriends Yorkie is 19 and still going...they can live a long life if well taken care of...

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

The cutoff we had in our rescue was 70 but if the person was willing to talk about an adult dog then we have placed some of the rescue's in those homes with the full understanding the dog came back to us or we met the children of these people and how involved they were with the dog.
Just dealing with statistics but what are the odds this person will outlive their yorkie if the dog stays healthy...and how sharp will they be. I clearly think someone 60 has a bigger chance then someone 80. My mother passed at 85 and was still driving, taking care of hospice patients, heavily involved in her church etc..and in one day she was gone. Her mother and grandmother lived to be 99 but both were bedridden. My mother loved dogs but fully understood it was not fair if she passed and no one would take her dog...she knew I would but she was in Michigan and I was in Colorado... so she helped foster and she helped raise $$$ for the rescue...

Every breeder has to make choices but 80 to me for a puppy is ......

My girlfriends Yorkie is 19 and still going...they can live a long life if well taken care of...

In other words, she couldn't get a dog from most rescues either. Just as all 20 year olds aren't mature enough to care for a puppy, some are, and age should only be only indicator in making a decision. I guess it's your opinion that this person should not ever have a dog again? Yet, she comes with the best reference of all, having cared for a dog who lived 16 years, and I believe she should be rewarded for this. As you say, your rescue had the full understanding that the dog would come back to them, and Jim intends to do look into this.

I believe that one of the best indicators on how long we will live is our "will to live." I've seen too many examples of people beating all odds, when there is a great will to live. While I think it's important to put the dog's needs first, I do not believe in overlooking human needs. The dog could live very happily with them for 5 or so years, and blend with another family fairly easy, if it's been raised well, and her previous experience indicates she knows something about raising a dog well. I don't think it's necessarily a horrible thing for a dog to be rehomed, I've adopted dogs from shelters, and they never seemed traumatized over the new home.

[Woogie Man]

Cindy, I understand rescues (or any organization) must have some type of policy. You indicate that yours was based on statistics. Her's a link to an article (with statistics) about centenarians.

USATODAY.com - Centenarians increase in age and numbers

Nancy, great post. There have been studies that show that owning an animal may contribute both to the the quality and length of life. We don't come with an expiration date and I would feel empty without a dog in my life and hope to have one (at least) all my days that I can give the care they need.

I do think this whole thing is a new area to consider from a breeder's point of view. Of course, any responsible breeder would never refuse any of their dogs a forever home, if need be. Things can and do happen to us at any age.

[Nancy1999]

Speaking of statistics, jp4m2 posted some stats from on this thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/off...ml#post2994049
The Regional Shelter Relinquishment Study sponsored by the National Council on Pet Population Study and Policy found that 62 percent of the animals turned over to rescues were by people who were under 30 years of age.