Wy many breeders use pics from my Champions ??

[mjharpst]

This thread has become a bash against each other, we will never get the whole picture its a he said she said situation. Hope you both can figure out a way to work this whole mess out.

[peggynitro]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I see some wrong on each side too. I think it is very difficult to sell internationally unless affiliated with a dog club of some kind that could have members on both sides to vouch for the seller and buyer.

I think they are saying different things about her accepting a different puppy as one of the two she chose died and the other was too tiny to ship out for possible breeding. He said: "and because I´m very responsable persons I sent to Peggy my own puppy that one which I was choose for to keep for my self , I explain that to her and she was agree and happy with the new girl , "

The 2 pound puppy is only 18 weeks old. She might make it up to 5 pounds, although it will probably be more like 3 pounds, so you are right, no one should have sold or bought her as a breeding prospect. If no one wants her, send her to me!

I think if the buyer was unhappy with her first purchase, she would not hjave gone through all of the trouble to buy another puppy from an out-of-country seller. I think if the seller was that unhappy with the buyer on the first purchase, he should not have thought she was improving enough to sell her another. So, they must not have been that unhappy with each other on the male purchase. It was with this little female, bad feelings developed. Why? Is it because she is a different female than originally picked? Not as pretty as the first ones? Too little to breed? Why now is the seller mad? Did he not know that she was mixing breeds? Did he not know that she was wanting to breed this female?

Too many questions for me to even think about taking sides. I do think the buyer should get his pictures off her ads immediately. You do not steal pictures and use them without permission. If he was local to the her, it would be easy to sue her and take a percentage of every sale she makes with his pictures!

I think the seller should not sell anymore dogs until he can have a good reference from the people's vet and maybe for sales to the U.S. like this, require a YTCA member to vouch for them.

Unfortunately this sale is done, and there is probably little to be done. The buyer is only going to return the puppy if he pays for everything and that is probably going to be a huge expense for the seller. This is unfortunate because the seller's dogs look gorgeous! To have one even that has to be spayed for being too small to breed would be an honor.

ANSWERS: (my side again) to answer you is that "yes" he knew I wanted to breed and probably why I had full registration papers with both dogs that he did send. He knew I was mixing and this is why we spoke about a 5# (est.) female. In fact, I still have a "mix". Her name is Maddy and she's a Shorkie. She's 15 weeks and just 1.5 lbs. I don't care for HUGE lap type dogs that would be 10+ pounds. Now would I ever be insane enough to put a 10 lb male with a 3 lb female. Not in my character.

The Seller is mad because the lady (Susan) that paid like $6000-$7000 for a dog is mad because I put up photos of the Sire to the dog I own. She complains to him and now he is complaining to me (because of her). Anyway, I have written permission and lots of email proof about many of his complaints to PuppyFind about me. There is a request from Javier about the "Review" I wrote and Mr. Coronol has asked that my review be deleted from his file. This all will take several weeks to resolve (according to PuppyFind Staff) but I think I have my bases pretty well covered. We'll see though. Peggy

[peggynitro]

Thanks, I'm in agreement with what you say. I do have the emails to back up my side of the story and pics of the dog that he sent me that I "thought" I had bought. It's just way to exhausting and involved to go thru everything to prove my story on here. I don't show and breed dogs to make a living on. So it's just not worth the battle to "prove" anything. Maybe I'm just old and lazy too. LOL Yeah.....probably "That's the Ticket! Peggy

[peggynitro]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I just typed about the same thing. I think I am typing while you are posting. Fair to say the dog will grow! Only being 18 weeks old, she should grow quite a bit yet. She may very well make it to 4 pounds.

I will bet she has the potential to be beautiful. Maybe you two should agree to sell her to me instead of paying for all of that shipping!

I paid $2600. You can deduce her price from that.

She's now AKC.

So you're telling me 4lbs then is okay to breed her????

My male is 4 lbs. I couldn't imagine impregnanting something that small. Is it safe?

[peggynitro]

Originally Posted by javier2905

Hi Debra , I just can let you know which the female which i sent to this woman Peggy Rogers will be more beautifull than those dogs in my pics , because she will have the same coat , and her face is a dream , She is a daugther of Nuria of Blue Point and my New Show Prospect California Wild´s Emperador I ( you can see those dogs in my website ), but unfortunally this female is not in the right hands so for sure she never will have the same coat , and she will look just like a little ugly dog in Peggy´s hands .

Whew, what a slam. Nice one and you're so mature! You're making my points for me now Javier. As I said, the dog you sent me wasn't CH sired and you just said her sire is your show "prospect". Nice review material for PuppyFind but I already had that info.

If you felt that I was such an aweful person. Why then did you sell me more dogs? 2600 reasons maybe? Peggy

[topknot]

Sounds like FlDebra found and answer in all this.

JMO and to help- Peggy: You really should never post photos of dogs that do not belong to you or are not in your own possession. It is just kinda of common curtesy not to, since it can give buyers the wrong impression. It is just not the right thing to do.

Also - since you might not know this: you should not advertise a 15 Day old pup as a show prospect, since it takes a minium of 5-6 months to tell if a pup has the potential. And - Advertising a mixed breed as a show prospect is not correct either, since you can't show in confirmation a mixed breed with AKC and your registry of ACHC does not hold shows. It just shows there is a lot you do not know...and

If the sire (dad) or mom (dam) of the pups for sale are not champions - it is also not correct to advertise them as champion sired.

It is a learning process - we learn more as we go along.

JMO - I just do not believe in breeding mixed breeds, since they really are a mix. And then charging 1,200.00 for one. Yikes!

AKC will be allowing (as far as I know) mixed breeds be to be registered under a "Special" registry so people can enjoy showing their mixed spayed/neutered dog in Agility, Rally, and Obediance, but they will not be able to compete in Confirmation. Confirmation is competing for their championship and to show for breed worthy.

And the 2 pound 14 week old pup you are talking about might make weight when fully grown. I had one this small then and is now 5.5 pounds at 2 years old.

I hope this clears things up and makes some things better.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by peggynitro

ANSWERS: Pretty LEVEL HEADED analysis of the situation (IMO)
(my side again) to answer you is that "yes" he knew I wanted to breed and probably why I had full registration papers with both dogs that he did send. He knew I was mixing and this is why we spoke about a 5# (est.) female. In fact, I still have a "mix". Her name is Maddy and she's a Shorkie. She's 15 weeks and just 1.5 lbs. I don't care for HUGE lap type dogs that would be 10+ pounds. Now would I ever be insane enough to put a 10 lb male with a 3 lb female. Not in my character.

The Seller is mad because the lady (Susan) that paid like $6000-$7000 for a dog is mad because I put up photos of the Sire to the dog I own. She complains to him and now he is complaining to me (because of her). Anyway, I have written permission and lots of email proof about many of his complaints to PuppyFind about me. There is a request from Javier about the "Review" I wrote and Mr. Coronol has asked that my review be deleted from his file. This all will take several weeks to resolve (according to PuppyFind Staff) but I think I have my bases pretty well covered. We'll see though. Peggy

Peggy -- do not think I am your ally in this debate! I do not understand why you think you have a right to those photos? If you have written permission to use the photos, why would you not have said that and produced it? If the dog now belongs to someone else, and she does not want you to use photos of her dog in your advertising, then why on earth would you feel it is right to continue doing it? Simple ethics and morality says get their photos off your ads! You slam this guy from afar, and then want to ride his coat tails (all the hard work he has dedicated to breeding his line!) by using one of his more expensive, very beautiful adult dogs in your ads for 15 week old puppies with as yet unknown show/breeding potential.

[peggynitro]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Since the dog is only 18 weeks old, I think it is fair to say you are exaggerating since the dog will no longer be 2 lb 4 oz when it is 18-24 months old and breeding age. It may still be underweight for breeding but it probably WILL NOT still be a 2 pounder.

How long have you had her?

Okay, I "was" admitingly exagerating just a tad. I've had her for almost one month now. Exact date registration was transfered to me was 6/12/09. She arrived in USA with NorthWest (Cargo) on 6/17/09. Had her since then.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by peggynitro

You're so full of yourself. And you don't tell the truth either. Go ahead, look at puppyFind and just see how many dogs I have. Does 6 ring any bells up there? Now...lets see, there's either 12 or 15 dogs to a page. That'd definately mean I'd have pages upon pages of dogs. You and Javier related? My Gosh! Go away!

I do have 4 males with Brazil and Argenina lines, your correct. Give me a break. Don't come on here and start stirring up things that you don't have one IOTA what you're talking about.

i am not full of myself and no, i don't even know this man. As far as stirring things up, the other thread has been dead for a long time until YOU re opened it. As far as who I am, I am a breeder that "seems" to be highly respected on YT. No ONE will use my pictures on a website to promote their dogs unless I give permission. that is the main thing I see you have done wrong. Sometimes people ask me if they can use my parents on their website when they have one of my puppies. Sometimes I give permission and sometimes I don't. But at least they ask permission. You Ms. peggy will be found out for just what you are. people on YT don't think too highly of unethical breeders and you might be surprised to know that you fit in most of their definitions of that.. keep this going and you will see that I might be the only one speaking up right now but rest assured others will. i agree with what some of the other posters said. there was wrong on both sides.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by peggynitro

So you're telling me 4lbs then is okay to breed her????

My male is 4 lbs. I couldn't imagine impregnanting something that small. Is it safe?

Crap, I am getting more into this thread than I wanted. I did not say 4 pounds was okay to breed. Javier said she will probably get to 4 pounds and I agreed she may well get to 4 pounds. Nowhere does that say anything about 4 pounds being okay to breed. I previously even wrote: "The 2 pound puppy is only 18 weeks old. She might make it up to 5 pounds, although it will probably be more like 3 pounds, so you are right, no one should have sold or bought her as a breeding prospect. " so you know perfectly well I was not saying to breed her at 4 pounds. YTCA says 5 pounds. I know some will get a vet to evaluate 4-5 pounders and see what their bone structure is like and if they can safely breed and give birth naturally. SOME 4-5 pounders can be safely bred. I use 5 pounds as a guide, because that is what YTCA says. Do NOT try to put words in my mouth. I do not like it and it makes you look foolish.

[YorkieRose]

Javier2905...You are the one who sold your breeding stock to Peggynitro and now you complain she breeds oversized, mixed breeds. Did you get references and throughly check the buyer out??...you are trying to shut the door after the horses left the barn IMO...

[topknot]

Yes, something to learn on both sides!



Forgot to add in last post: Weight - can never guarantee it. One never knows what they will weigh until they are fully grown.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by topknot

Yes, something to learn on both sides!



Forgot to add in last post: Weight - can never guarantee it. One never knows what they will weigh until they are fully grown.

Ain't that the truth.
I keep a pup back that was on tracking to be about 6 lbs grown.
At a year old she weighs 2 lb-13 ozs...

[Sugar's Mom]

I just heard back from puppyFind and they said they have sent peggy an email asking her to remove any pictures of dogs that do not belong to her. we will see if she complies. if she doesn't her PuppyFind account will be suspended. the picture thing is really what bothered me about the whole thing.

[tammy8833]

this is just a ridiculous mess! i think this would be best kept in their personal emails

he knew what he was doing and she knew what she was doing. he knew she wanted a breeder if she breeds...and if he didnt like her program he could have said no, but she paid the money and he was alright with it then.