Is there a problem I am not aware of?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I believe you two have summed it up and given great examples of why so many breeders refuse to post in this section anymore.
For starters, it's frustrating to continuously read about people breeding their dogs without doing even the slightest bit of research and preparation first. Or those who breed with no regard whatsoever to the standard or overall health of the dogs. Not everyone is willing to encourage that type of thing.
Most got tired of being jumped on for answering questions honestly and got tired of having to defend themselves everytime the lectures of "you were rude" started. They were slapped in the face for the advice they offered anytime it wasn't what the OP wanted to hear. After so many times of being attacked and told that if they couldn't be nice and supportive to butt out, they did just that.


So, if they post and answer questions, that's wrong, and if they don't answer at all, that's wrong too. It's a no win situation. Why would they even try?

(All just general thoughts, not in relations to any one specific siutation.)

Great post, as just a reader of the breeders forum, and not a really a contributor (because I'm not a breeder) I saw this happen so many times. They might write a long wonderful reply, but one sentence of it would be picked out and ripped apart, often by people who were non-breeders with no education in breeding.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Rosiegirl

I agree. I came here to learn from the knowledgable people here. I love to hear several different opions from the people who have it. On the other hand I think it is unfair that us newby's are treated this way, because we ALL were newby's at one time or another, and at some point we ALL decided to breed our dogs, just because we are new to it doesn't mean we cannot ever be really good and sound breeders. It is going to take mentoring and support for that to happen. When I see some people treating us like we are carelessly trying to make a buck or whatever else it makes me sick.

The people who do not even reach out to knowledgable forums and such are the ones that can be totally devastating to this breed. Even more so than us just starting out. At least we are trying to learn all we can, which is the opposite of neglectful.

And I don't understand the comment about P.M.-ing people for advise, how are we supposed to know who is a silently knowledgable breeder?(there are 40,000 people on this forum) We are new, if you know things than speak up sometimes and let us know you guys even exist. Like BJH, she has put herself out there and that's how I know to ask her through P.M.'s if needed for advise.

As far as the people who judge us by a single post we have made, that is unfortunate.

You make some very good points. Today's newbie might some day be a top show breeder. Everyone has to start somewhere. That is why it bothers me when I see new people ran off but on the other hand I think some people are too sensitive and they take one persons opinion as criticism when it was really just meant to be just their opinion or their honest advise. We all learn from mistakes and we all make mistakes. Part of learning is sharing information, the good and the bad.

As for the PMing, some people just feel more comfortable asking questions that way. In the past some of the threads would get really heated and some people would want to stay out of them so they would pm their opinion or advise to the OP instead of posting and getting caught in the middle of a argument.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Rosiegirl

On the other hand I think it is unfair that us newby's are treated this way, because we ALL were newby's at one time or another, and at some point we ALL decided to breed our dogs, just because we are new to it doesn't mean we cannot ever be really good and sound breeders. It is going to take mentoring and support for that to happen. When I see some people treating us like we are carelessly trying to make a buck or whatever else it makes me sick.

The people who do not even reach out to knowledgable forums and such are the ones that can be totally devastating to this breed. Even more so than us just starting out. At least we are trying to learn all we can, which is the opposite of neglectful.

Point in case.

If they post and answer it's wrong and not what people wanted and they are judgemental, and when they don't then they are criticized and accused of being neglectful. Why would anyone willingly put themselves in that situation?

For the record, I have NEVER here on YT seen anyone here on YT put down or discouraged from breeding or starting out when doing so in a responsible manner. I have however seen people come on here having done little or no preparation for what all breeding entails told that they need to do their homework first. The 'everyone starts somewhere' bit only goes so far. Yes, everyone starts somewhere--it's how you specifically go about doing it that makes a difference--do you proceed in a responsible manner or just jump in blindly?

[Brooklynn]

I am one of those show breeders that refuse to respond anymore in this section and I"m sorry it's come to this but it is some of the reasons some have said. Reason being...I don't believe in breeding for pets "period". If you breed you need to be breeding for the betterment of the breed and one that could very well be in the show ring. Health is of the utmost importance and I see a lot that do NOT take all the necessary health issues into account when breeding. I'm not trying to be rude but it's the truth and how I feel.
First of all, a new breeder should NEVER come to a forum and learn how to breed or whelp, that should be done with a mentor or even your vet and learn from someone you know that has had first hand experience. The internet may be full of information but ask yourself this...do you really know that person behind that computer screen? I've learned a lot myself from personal experience. I'm not perfect but I hope I have learned from mistakes I've made and mistakes I know I'll make in the future if I don't then it's time to get out of this and move on to something else. It's all in how you handle yourself.
Please don't take this as being mean or rude it's not my intentions just how I feel as a show breeder.
I've made wonderful friends here and treasure their friendship. I came to this forum as a yorkie lover not to seek advice or answers because I feel that should be done with my vet, mentors and other professionals. I'm here to share accomplishments with others in the show ring and to show off our pets that we love. I love when I see my friends do well in the ring and anyone that is new to yorkies in the ring and new yorkie owners as well! Dogs bring such joy to our lives and that's why I came here to share how much joy they bring.

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire TErriers

[bjh]

Donna, I understand your frustration and I admire your dedication to the breed but there will always be breeders and newbies that need help. I just don't think turning your back to those that don't have your same goals and aspirations or meet your expectations will change anything. I do think that you and others that do post in the show section can be an inspiration to others to try to breed for the betterment of the breed. Your accomplishments are something to be very proud of and rightfully so.

[Rosiegirl]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

do you proceed in a responsible manner or just jump in blindly?

Well, it certainly happens BOTH ways. I guess my point is if you are going to read the threads and not speak up if you can help then what good does that do? The real ones hurt by this in the end are the dogs, because the owners may not be as educated as they could have been AND even though this "OOps" breeding or whatever you have at that time isn't of someone elses approval, do we really want to see the care of dogs suffer? I know we all do not want to see that, let's face it we are all here because we love these little things to death. I feel that I did everything short of finding a $5,000 dog to breed. I chose the 4th stud I went to see (and that wasn't easy to find them either), which complimented my bitches shortfalls and qualities, I had 3 vet appointments to get the 'all clear' for that, and I also planned this for 2 years before that. And in the end, the 'breeders' usually all find homes for the pups that the new owners will love, adore and cherish immensly. (and most dogs are not bred for the show ring) So I sort of get's old to be put into a catagory of someone who jumped in blindly. Don't mistake me for angry right now, which I am not, but I thought this was a great thread to speak up for what I have found to be true. I absolutley respect the opinions of others who still want to disagree because I think that's only fair, to each his own.

I do happen to have a mentor and a vet who backs me up but there IS qualities of having people who have dealt with only Yorkies for years on end to talk to. It is also really nice to hear several opinions when you ask an important question. I gather everything I can to make an educated desicion that works best for my dog. I also have no interrest in showing my dog to get 'approval' of what I do, that is a hobby I really have NO time for, and it is a huge commitment, not to mention costly to travel. If I were going to travel, I would go to the carribean.

I just think our community could have a better time on YT if the 'elders' spoke up in a supportive way. It surely wouldn't hurt. So can't we all just get along?

I just think with 40,000 people on this forum, to assume all newby's are one certain way is crazy.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

Donna, I understand your frustration and I admire your dedication to the breed but there will always be breeders and newbies that need help. I just don't think turning your back to those that don't have your same goals and aspirations or meet your expectations will change anything. I do think that you and others that do post in the show section can be an inspiration to others to try to breed for the betterment of the breed. Your accomplishments are something to be very proud of and rightfully so.

I didn't say I'm turning my back on newcomers would change them or their beliefs but if they don't have my same goals or aspirations or meet my expections then I'm wasting my time. Blunt maybe but why would I want to waste my time when they don't have the same goals and aspirations I do? They have their mind set already and nothing I can say will change it...btdt LOL...been proven many, many times on this forum
I will be nice but most that know me know my intentions and those that don't have the same beliefs as I do not ask my advice because we have agreed to disagree and leave it alone and be friends. When I see the same thing over and over no use answering
Anyway it's just how I feel and whether it's right or wrong, love me, hate me makes no difference to me LOL...People are either going to agree with me or disagree, take me for who I am or leave me alone....I'm at the point in my life that take me for who I am if not that's ok too

Donna

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by bjh

Donna, I understand your frustration and I admire your dedication to the breed but there will always be breeders and newbies that need help. I just don't think turning your back to those that don't have your same goals and aspirations or meet your expectations will change anything. I do think that you and others that do post in the show section can be an inspiration to others to try to breed for the betterment of the breed. Your accomplishments are something to be very proud of and rightfully so.

I can understand why some would want to turn their backs, and in fact, I almost feel like it's "enabling" when advice is given. It's like they're getting the message, "Got a pet, go ahead and breed, we'll be here to advise you on whelping."

I wish the breeders section could be more about what experienced breeders thought of certain ideas and techniques, and testing, and a newbie could come and just read threads, or ask informed questions after doing research on their own, but it so often about someone asking questions, that have been answered a million times before on the forum, if they would just bother to read. So it must be hard to take their breeding effort seriously, since they aren't taking it seriously.

[Zanders' mom]

I'm not a breeder, sorry I can't offer advice. When I want an answer I do a search 1st to see if anyone has had a similar experience, to the one I am having, I have learned quite a bit from older threads. Just a suggestion, hope it helps.

[Brooklynn]

[QUOTE=Nancy1999;2488504]"enabling"

is the best description I've seen! I will not "enable" any longer with what should be already known before getting into breeding! Plain and simple

Donna

[Brooklynn]

What also just amazes me is why when something is wrong the vet isn't the first person you call? When something is wrong with my yorkies the first thing I do is call my vet and if it's after hours I'm calling the ER vet not coming online to a forum for the answers. AFTER I've talked to my vet and he's told me what to do then I might come online to find someone with similar experiences and discuss but first and foremost my vet is the first person I ask when something is wrong....
That has been one of the most puzzling things for me to grasp...

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I didn't say I'm turning my back on newcomers would change them or their beliefs but if they don't have my same goals or aspirations or meet my expections then I'm wasting my time. Blunt maybe but why would I want to waste my time when they don't have the same goals and aspirations I do? They have their mind set already and nothing I can say will change it...btdt LOL...been proven many, many times on this forum
I will be nice but most that know me know my intentions and those that don't have the same beliefs as I do not ask my advice because we have agreed to disagree and leave it alone and be friends. When I see the same thing over and over no use answering
Anyway it's just how I feel and whether it's right or wrong, love me, hate me makes no difference to me LOL...People are either going to agree with me or disagree, take me for who I am or leave me alone....I'm at the point in my life that take me for who I am if not that's ok too

Donna

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Well, I do know how you are and I except you just as you are and we can just agree to disagree on some issues. I do not agree that helping fellow yorkie lovers that need help is a waste of time, whether I agree with them or not.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

Well, I do know how you are and I except you just as you are and we can just agree to disagree on some issues. I do not agree that helping fellow yorkie lovers that need help is a waste of time, whether I agree with them or not.

If they don't have my same aspirations then I'm sorry it's a waste of my time unfortunately The word that was mentioned before "enabling" I'm just not gonna do it anymore. If you aren't breeding to the breed standard and have no intentions of doing it then there is no need in me answering your question
Yes, we are friends and will and have agreed to disagree We take each other for who we are

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by bjh

Well, I do know how you are and I except you just as you are and we can just agree to disagree on some issues. I do not agree that helping fellow yorkie lovers that need help is a waste of time, whether I agree with them or not.

That's just it, they don't seem to love yorkies at all, and don't even know the answers to questions that a yorkie owner should know, let alone a breeder. Doesn't love imply some sort of willingness to do what's best for our pets, and gain an understanding of the proper care of them, and at least a basic knowledge of breed standard? To me, they are entrepreneurs, not breeders.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Yes, we are friends and will and have agreed to disagree We take each other for who we are

Yes we do and I do appreciate all the help you have given me.