Parti confussion?????

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Can't speak for anyone else, but its not my ego. I am just darn tired of the parti bashing on yorkietalk.

[sierrapups]

kpstoybox,

This is not meant as an affront but is your avatar of a Parti or a Biewer?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Now we're getting somewhere!

JeanieK, can I ask how it is that you would like to breed partis, but have not produced any yet? Do you breed standard yorkies and you're hoping to see a parti eventually?

well yes, is there another way?

No just joking. My partis are in my avatar. But I have a carrier male and so far no partis.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

From what I've read, Congenital (present at birth) - Genetic (hereditary) means that the condition is present at birth and it's hereditary, but it does not mean the condition always displays itself at birth. There are two types, piebald, and extreme piebald, and only in the extreme piebald will the condition be displayed at birth.

Congenital means present at birth, but is not necessarily herditary. Could be cause by something that happened with the mother during pregnancy.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Genetics of Deafness in Dogs -- George M. Strain, PhD



So what should breeders do when deafness crops up? The most conservative approach would be to not breed the affected animal and not repeat the breeding that produced deafness. It is frequently recommended (i.e. Dalmatian Club of America) that bilaterally deaf puppies should be euthanatized, since they make poor pets, are prone to biting, frequently die from misadventure (cars), and require excessive care. There is considerable controversy on this point (see The Deaf Dogs Web Page), and there is no question that many people have successfully raised deaf dogs. For every horror story of a problem deaf dog there seems to be a story of one that was successfully raised. Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how a deaf puppy will turn out. Unilaterally deaf dogs can make good pets but should not be bred. When deafness is uncommon in a breed, affected dogs should not be bred, but this does not mean that all related dogs are a risk and must be retired from breeding. An understanding of simple autosomal recessive and dominant patterns, as explained above, can allow the breeder to make informed decisions and likely avoid future deaf animals without sacrificing a breeding line that has been shaped over many years. However, extreme caution must be used when line breeding of dogs related to deaf dogs, whether the deafness is unilateral or bilateral. To make these decisions in an informed manner for breeds with known deafness, it is important that advantage be taken of hearing testing facilities at veterinary schools. Unilaterally deaf dogs cannot be detected by other means, and these dogs will pass on their deafness genes.


Not to keep kicking a live horse, but this last sentence is very informative also.

Very good advice, for people with breeds with known deafness.

If ever I start getting deaf dogs, I will look into the testing, I will definitely not repeat the breeding, and I will spay/neuter the faulty puppy.

I appreciate your concern, I reallt do. but I do not plan to scrap my breeding program for something that may never happen.

I have no intention of breeding to produce an all white yorkie. I like the color on the ears, and that is the look I will strive for.

My breeder has been breeding partis for many years and many generations and is not producing deaf puppies.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Congenital means present at birth, but is not necessarily herditary. Could be cause by something that happened with the mother during pregnancy.

People are posting lots of scientific links, but until someone actually reads and COMPREHENDS what the link is saying, it doesn't do any good.

My quote was directly from a link Pinehaven post number 368 to support her claim that the

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

From what I've read, dogs that go deaf as a result of the extreme piebald gene, normally loose their hearing within the first few weeks of life, it's not something that may happen 5 or 10 years down the road with a dog (at least where the parti gene is concerned). . . .


Congenital (present at birth) - Genetic (hereditary)
Congenital (present at birth) - Acquired (for example, dam exposed to toxic drug)
Otitis (inflammation) through bacteria or fungal infections in Inner or Outer Ear
Injury by accident or foreign body invasion
Old age (Presbycusis)
Drug Toxicity including General Anaesthesia
Noise Trauma . . .
[/url]

I wasn't defining the word congenital and describing the differences between acquired and genetic. I was explaining that something could be congenital and genetic and while the condition would be PRESENT at birth, it does not have to DISPLAY itself at birth.

Here's my direct quote, isn't it plain what I was saying? Why would you feel the need to say there are two types of congenital, clearly we are only referring the genetic kind.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

From what I've read, Congenital (present at birth) - Genetic (hereditary) means that the condition is present at birth and it's hereditary, but it does not mean the condition always displays itself at birth. There are two types, piebald, and extreme piebald, and only in the extreme piebald will the condition be displayed at birth.

Your explaining the difference between two types of congenital, - acquired and genetic leads me to believe you do not have an understanding of what I was trying to say. What this means is that while some puppies would be born deaf, you won't know about others until later, perhaps 5-7 years later.

[JeanieK]

With all the talk of genetics, I have an interesting question.

Since all dogs can eventually be traced to the wolf. The wolf must contain all of the genetic markers for all; the traits found in all of the various breeds.

The various dog breeds were created by eliminating certain genes. Therefore if one started breeding all of the breeds back together again, could we eventually produce a wolf?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

People are posting lots of scientific links, but until someone actually reads and COMPREHENDS what the link is saying, it doesn't do any good.

My quote was directly from a link Pinehaven post number 368 to support her claim that the





I wasn't defining the word congenital and describing the differences between acquired and genetic. I was explaining that something could be congenital and genetic and while the condition would be PRESENT at birth, it does not have to DISPLAY itself at birth.

Here's my direct quote, isn't it plain what I was saying? Why would you feel the need to say there are two types of congenital, clearly we are only referring the genetic kind.



Your explaining the difference between two types of congenital, - acquired and genetic leads me to believe you do not have an understanding of what I was trying to say. What this means is that while some puppies would be born deaf, you won't know about others until later, perhaps 5-7 years later.

I understood what you said. the condition is present at birth but does not display itself til later.

Thank you for your kind concern for my potentil inability to COMPREHEND. Next time I will be more careful in my explainations so you can comprehend that I comprehended.

Still not scrapping my breeding program for somethuing that may or masy NOT ever happen.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Very good advice, for people with breeds with known deafness.

If ever I start getting deaf dogs, I will look into the testing, I will definitely not repeat the breeding, and I will spay/neuter the faulty puppy.

I appreciate your concern, I reallt do. but I do not plan to scrap my breeding program for something that may never happen.

I have no intention of breeding to produce an all white yorkie. I like the color on the ears, and that is the look I will strive for.

My breeder has been breeding partis for many years and many generations and is not producing deaf puppies.

I bet that not one of the puppies has been BAER tested and as you have read,(hopefully) the unilateral deafness problem is almost impossible to tell unless they are tested. So how do any of you know that this problem does not exist in your breeding program?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

With all the talk of genetics, I have an interesting question.

Since all dogs can eventually be traced to the wolf. The wolf must contain all of the genetic markers for all; the traits found in all of the various breeds.

The various dog breeds were created by eliminating certain genes. Therefore if one started breeding all of the breeds back together again, could we eventually produce a wolf?

Who knows? Since the earliest domisticated dog is around 31000 year old maybe it would take about 31000 years of mixing to find out.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I bet that not one of the puppies has been BAER tested and as you have read,(hopefully) the unilateral deafness problem is almost impossible to tell unless they are tested. So how do any of you know that this problem does not exist in your breeding program?

I appreciate your concern, and all the informational post. However I am very computer literate and have one my own research of the subject. Upon interviewing parti yorkie breeders I have found no incidene of deafness, so therefore see no reason to be concerned at this time

I will have my dogs tested as I see fit, and I will assume all risks and responsibilty for any deaf dogs that I might produce.

Thank you very much for all of the research that you have done on my behalf.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

if the shoe does not fit, then don't wear it.

You said we ARE ALL and I don't care to be included in that, as I'm not a breeder, is all I said

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

You said we ARE ALL and I don't care to be included in that, as I'm not a breeder, is all I said

If the shoe doesn't fit then don't wear it.

[Woogie Man]

I've been reading back through the thread and some things just don't add up for me. It appears as though a couple of parti breeders have their own club and are actually writing a standard for the partis. It seems that, when breeding partis of any breed, awareness of the piebald gene risks is critical. From the time line of the posts, it looks like the breeders that are trying to set standards for the parti Yorkie were unaware of these risks. I would think that anyone that is putting themselves in such a position would be keenly aware of all risks and wouldn't attempt to write a standard before having all possible information. Here...I'll try to illustrate my point. On 1-31, when asked about how many members are in the club and how many dogs were produced, JeanieK responded in post 278...."Our club is very new, and there aren't as many serious parti yorkie breeders out there yet. most of us have just recently aquired our partis and hfave yet to even have our first parti pups".My opinion is this isn't much to go on if you're writing the standard. After more information was posted concerning the risks of breeding piebalds, JeanieK responded, on 2-1 in post 302...."Thank you ladies for all the great information, it is definitely something we will be watching for.

That is true, only time will tell. The Biewers Yorkies have been around for a long time and I have not heard of any deafness in their dogs. But that does not mean it won't happen in the partis, so now that we are aware of it we can watch for it.

I have spoken to may breeders including my own, that prefer to breed carriers to partis, and this might be why.

Sue I think we need to adjust the standard to discourae the breeding of Dogs with all white heads. I like the color on both ears anyway". Does this sound like someone who was previously aware of the piebald risks? Well, at least she's mentioning adjusting the standard. Question is, why wasn't this looked into earlier? The only research that seems to have been done is asking the few other parti breeders and concluding it's not a problem. The factual posts that have been made have been dismissed because a few breeders with no more than a few generations say otherwise. I'm not really sure that those breeders were even asked since, referring to post 302, it all seems to be new information. Again, this by those writing the standard? Finally, today, when asked about testing that had been done to make sure there was no uni-lateral deafness, JeanieK responded in post 386...."I appreciate your concern, and all the informational post. However I am very computer literate and have one my own research of the subject. Upon interviewing parti yorkie breeders I have found no incidene of deafness, so therefore see no reason to be concerned at this time

I will have my dogs tested as I see fit
, and I will assume all risks and responsibilty for any deaf dogs that I might produce". While it may be fine to assume your own risks, shouldn't those writing the standard be concerned about the risks to other parti breeders? And, again, how much research was really done on the subject (see post 302). All I can say is thank God for responsible breed clubs.

[Breezeaway]

Honestly you really don't make any sense with posting of how parti people should breed or handle their club, have their dogs tested etc etc. Who appointed you dog God over all the parti colored dogs?
If you look at the AKC list of dogs on the AKC site 21 of the first 35 dogs and that is just the A and B list can be tricolored or parti. So these people should not breed these dogs because of chance of deafness? If you go down that list of AKC dogs the tri colors out number the solids by alot.
These dogs can be spotted....
Akita
American Foxhound,
American Staffordshire Terrier
American Eskimo Dog
Anatolian Shepherd Dog,
Australian Cattle Dog
Australian Shepherd, Australian Terrier
Basenji Bernese Mountain Dog
Bichon Frise Borzoi
Boston Terrier Border Collie
Basset Hound Brittany
Beagle Bulldog
Bearded Collie
Beauceron
Bedlington Terrier

These can not:...Affenpinscher
Afghan Hound
American Water Spaniel
Anatolian Shepherd Dog
Belgian Malinois
Belgian Sheepdog
Belgian Tervuren
Bouvier des Flandres
Bloodhound
Border Terrier
Briard
Brussels Griffon
Bullmastiff

And thats just the A's and B's
Maybe you need to petition AKC about allowing all these spotted dogs to be bred.
Get over the spots geeeesh!!!!!!!!!!!!