Any one familiar with Moon Valley Kennel

[Dreamer74]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

Who's hiding... aren't you answering posts for your mother???? The "business owner". And from the info in your earlier post... you have NO IDEA how often she breeds the same dogs. Maybe it's you who should stop and have her reply.

Truth is when asked the questions, your mother did not want to answer them. That is a RED flag! Plain simple fact! With nothing to hide the questions should be answered! It doesn't matter what you say or how you defend her a buyer has the right to that info!! Just because you send $$ on a kennel DOES NOT MAKE YOU A GOOD BREEDER. What that tells me is that you must be doing a whole lot of breeding to pay for that kennel... again, we go back to mass production! And I guess you think that that makes you a good breeder??

As far as what my friend who did buy her dogs from your mother... 1 of her dogs has a liver shunt, he was born with it. She has said herself that she should have walked away when her questions weren't answered.

All of this is the truth and the readers can take whatever stock in it that they want. Neither you nor I can make anyone do something they don't want to do. If they are going to buy from your mom and they feel comfortable with that choice... then that's what they are going to do. I'm not trying to stop that. I just think that they should ask questions and get answers. If they don't get the answers and they are ok with that... so be it! And since you have "no idea" how often your mother breeds her dogs and at what age... I don't think this is an issue you should be addressing, your mother should!

For the record I have never met Betty or her daughter however I have talked to them about purchasing a dog.

In your first post you stated that you were told that she breeds every heat.. now your saying she would not answer the question, you have managed to present yourself as being a liar.

Your avatar says you are from VA, but you have stated that is not where you were from when you went to look at the kennels. Why have you not answered who you are or when you were there? If the accusations are true you should have no problem with publically stating the complete set of facts. why should members believe anything you say if you won't even say who you are.

You have posted very few items on this forum except to bad mouth someone, which makes it appear that is the only reason you joined. Again making you appear untrustworthy.

Secondly you are right that if someone wants to know the answers to these questions she has a right to know. That stated a breeder does not have a responsibility to answer every question you ask just because you visit her kennel. Maybe she got the feeling when you visited (if you actually did) that your intentions were not true, in which case I would not have answered anything for you either.

If you are interested in purchasing a dog a relationship needs to made between the breeder and the buyer, at that point the breeder would be willing to answer any questions you have. Given that I have spoken to Betty before I can guarantee you she answered EVERY question I had, and I would buy a puppy from Betty in a heartbeat.

If "In my experience & my friend's that info was not given up." Then why did your friend buy two dogs from her?

Because her daughter has no idea how often her mother breeds her dogs and at what age does not mean anything, she is not in business with her. All it means is it is not something that have specifically discussed.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by Dreamer74

For the record I have never met Betty or her daughter however I have talked to them about purchasing a dog.

In your first post you stated that you were told that she breeds every heat.. now your saying she would not answer the question, you have managed to present yourself as being a liar.

Your avatar says you are from VA, but you have stated that is not where you were from when you went to look at the kennels. Why have you not answered who you are or when you were there? If the accusations are true you should have no problem with publically stating the complete set of facts. why should members believe anything you say if you won't even say who you are.

You have posted very few items on this forum except to bad mouth someone, which makes it appear that is the only reason you joined. Again making you appear untrustworthy.

Secondly you are right that if someone wants to know the answers to these questions she has a right to know. That stated a breeder does not have a responsibility to answer every question you ask just because you visit her kennel. Maybe she got the feeling when you visited (if you actually did) that your intentions were not true, in which case I would not have answered anything for you either.

If you are interested in purchasing a dog a relationship needs to made between the breeder and the buyer, at that point the breeder would be willing to answer any questions you have. Given that I have spoken to Betty before I can guarantee you she answered EVERY question I had, and I would buy a puppy from Betty in a heartbeat.

If "In my experience & my friend's that info was not given up." Then why did your friend buy two dogs from her?

Because her daughter has no idea how often her mother breeds her dogs and at what age does not mean anything, she is not in business with her. All it means is it is not something that have specifically discussed.

Thank you for saying this. I have never, ever had a problem with answering buyers questions but some jump on here and get a long list of questions from people that think they know everything and in reality, it has NOTHING to do with the purchase of the puppy. I always make myself available and am very polite when asked questions. But in reality again, all you need to know is how my dogs are housed, are they healthy, have there ever been problems with any of my dogs. Things like that. You do not need to know when I purchased the parents or who I purchased from or how I breed them. it is also really no ones business how many times the dogs have been bred or how many litters I have had. That does not mean there are things to hide. it just means it does not pertain to the purchase of a particular pup. Just for the record, i do breed my girls twice and skip one. Sometimes I don't even breed twice. Just depends on how long since puppies were born that they come into heat again. I have four girls and two boys. I have not had aa litter of puppies since last June and one in March before that. Only two litters. But what has that got to do with anything. i so agree with your post about these things and I, too, have talked with Betty at length in the past. I have never purchased from her but would not hesitate to do so.

[boodarlene]

I was living in CA at the time I visited her kennel. I was at UT vet school with a very sick yorkie that was rescured. He was brought there for surgery. The reason he was brought there instead of having the surgery in CA was because the best surgeon for this procedure was there. While I was there I visited the kennel, I was looking to purchase a second dog for myself. So, I disagree with your statement that my intentions were not good!

My friend did what I think most people do... She bought the dogs because she fell in love with them. She held them, played with them and needless to say left with them. "Emotional purchase"

I have been involved with the AKC's yorkie rescue chapter for many years. (My full time job... Vet) With that being said, a pedigree and registration are requirements before breeding any purebred dog, but their presence does not mean that you have a Yorkie worthy of breeding. Let me explain. The AKC and other registry organizations certify pedigrees and registrations that guarantee the authenticity of your pet as a purebred Yorkie; they do not certify quality. What this means is that an AKC registered Yorkie can have certain traits that are undesirable for breeding such as congenital health defects which are not discernable to the eye and undesirable behavioral traits, which can become more pronounced in the dog's offspring. That can happen when you breed the same dog over & over again! So yes, a good breeder should answer those questions if asked! Over breeding is BAD for all involved except for the breeder looking to make a buck! Breeding Yorkies for monetary gain is not a good reason to pursue breeding this exceptional breed.

[Micah my love]

Vet...yea right

All of the vet's i know are way to busy to be on YT trashing someone that they have not bought a dog from

Betty & Micah my love

[Dreamer74]

Originally Posted by Micah my love

Vet...yea right

All of the vet's i know are way to busy to be on YT trashing someone that they have not bought a dog from

Betty & Micah my love

I have to agree with you.

[boodarlene]

Working on a research project not seeing patients (Fetal Development & Congenital Defects In Dogs). Days are free nights are spend at the lab. Not that I owe you an explanation, but if you would like to test my knowledge by all means please do so. Emails come right to my blackberry, would be happy to answer any questions you have. Never trashed, just said ask questions and if you don't get a response think twice! If you read all the posts you would have seen that I stated that the place was clean and the dogs seem to be well cared for. That's not trashing.

[Micah my love]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

Working on a research project not seeing patients (Fetal Development & Congenital Defects In Dogs). Days are free nights are spend at the lab. Not that I owe you an explanation, but if you would like to test my knowledge by all means please do so. Emails come right to my blackberry, would be happy to answer any questions you have. Never trashed, just said ask questions and if you don't get a response think twice! If you read all the posts you would have seen that I stated that the place was clean and the dogs seem to be well cared for. That's not trashing.

I have no questions for you...your nonprofessionalism is enough said

Betty & Micah my love

[boodarlene]

Doing what is right for these dogs & their puppies is professional! These dogs aren't money making machines and should never be used as such! I wish you could see the research that's been done and the effects that constant breeding has on both mom & babies. I'm sorry, but I don't think that making a dollar is worth it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against breeding. I just think that after a litter you should not breed for the next 2 heats at a minimum if you want to keep mom healthy!

[blueskies]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

Doing what is right for these dogs & their puppies is professional! These dogs aren't money making machines and should never be used as such! I wish you could see the research that's been done and the effects that constant breeding has on both mom & babies. I'm sorry, but I don't think that making a dollar is worth it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against breeding. I just think that after a litter you should not breed for the next 2 heats at a minimum if you want to keep mom healthy!

The bottom line is that you have gone about this the wrong way. Coming to a message board and making such vague accusations will not get you far here. That does nothing but upset those who have truly had bad experiences and are more than willing to share all persons and facts involved, and more so the breeder/person who is being targeted. The way you have come here to bash is WRONG. If you have an issue, you need to A) contact the breeder as her daughter has suggested several times, or B) share all names of persons and full factual information (fyi: a fact is something TRUE that is PROVEN, not a assumption).

Finally, it is your OPINION that it is best for females to be bred once and skip two heats. Several other well known vets and experts disagree. Some say breed 3-4 heats in a row and then spay, some day breed skip breed skip, some say breed breed skip, and there are many other varied opinions. You get the idea. I guarantee they all have facts and figures that support their theories. I can find you several websites right now that go against your opinion, with facts that have been reported and proven, just as I'm sure you can come with many resources that state you are correct. That's the way it works. In the end, I think that all good vets and all good breeders would agree that it is not healthy for a female to breed continuously for many many years every heat, but beyond that they all disagree. It is a breeders right to take in all this information and do what is right for them and for their dogs. It is NOT YOUR RIGHT to attempt to make their choices for them and use their information (or lack of it in this case) against them!

[boodarlene]

You are right... the choice is up to the breeder. And there are more & more breeders that are just into mass production. Where's the quality in that?? There isn't any. With that being said if a buyer asks for that information so that he/she can make an informed choice about the purchase... the breeder should provide it!!! If he/she is doing the right thing by these dogs, then it shouldn't be a problem.

These other vets that you are speaking of... are the specialists in Fetal Development & Congenital Defects In Dogs? How old is the research they are referring to? I do this all day every day, and your right there is a fine line between what breeders & doctors think is ethical and safe. I have seen way to many dogs have to be put back together because they have been breed to many times. Some of them didn't make it! And believe me when I tell you it isn't pretty. It's very sad!! They trust their owners to do what is right for them, because they can't speak for themselves. Think about it would you want to give birth to a baby and then months later be forced to get pregnant again? The dog's body needs time to heal.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by blueskies

The bottom line is that you have gone about this the wrong way. Coming to a message board and making such vague accusations will not get you far here. That does nothing but upset those who have truly had bad experiences and are more than willing to share all persons and facts involved, and more so the breeder/person who is being targeted. The way you have come here to bash is WRONG. If you have an issue, you need to A) contact the breeder as her daughter has suggested several times, or B) share all names of persons and full factual information (fyi: a fact is something TRUE that is PROVEN, not a assumption).

Finally, it is your OPINION that it is best for females to be bred once and skip two heats. Several other well known vets and experts disagree. Some say breed 3-4 heats in a row and then spay, some day breed skip breed skip, some say breed breed skip, and there are many other varied opinions. You get the idea. I guarantee they all have facts and figures that support their theories. I can find you several websites right now that go against your opinion, with facts that have been reported and proven, just as I'm sure you can come with many resources that state you are correct. That's the way it works. In the end, I think that all good vets and all good breeders would agree that it is not healthy for a female to breed continuously for many many years every heat, but beyond that they all disagree. It is a breeders right to take in all this information and do what is right for them and for their dogs. It is NOT YOUR RIGHT to attempt to make their choices for them and use their information (or lack of it in this case) against them!

Sorry, but, in my lifetime, I've NEVER heard a vet say anything other than two ways.
1) breed every other heat
2) breed two straight then skip.
I am going to start breeding, and one thing I won't do is breed every heat for 3 or 4 times. You go have a baby every 9 mos for 4 times straight, I couldn't do it and I sure wont' expect my female to do it either. To me, that sounds like someone only wantint to breed for the almighty dollars

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

Doing what is right for these dogs & their puppies is professional! These dogs aren't money making machines and should never be used as such! I wish you could see the research that's been done and the effects that constant breeding has on both mom & babies. I'm sorry, but I don't think that making a dollar is worth it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against breeding. I just think that after a litter you should not breed for the next 2 heats at a minimum if you want to keep mom healthy!

this doesn't work because we (ethical breeders) don't breed until the second, maybe third heat depending on the female and then we retire them at five years old. so as you can see, even by breeding two and skipping one, the bitch doesn't have tha many litters. You don't want a three year old dog having babies for the first time. most of them are two years old or at leadt 18 months for the first litter.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by blueskies

The bottom line is that you have gone about this the wrong way. Coming to a message board and making such vague accusations will not get you far here. That does nothing but upset those who have truly had bad experiences and are more than willing to share all persons and facts involved, and more so the breeder/person who is being targeted. The way you have come here to bash is WRONG. If you have an issue, you need to A) contact the breeder as her daughter has suggested several times, or B) share all names of persons and full factual information (fyi: a fact is something TRUE that is PROVEN, not a assumption).

Finally, it is your OPINION that it is best for females to be bred once and skip two heats. Several other well known vets and experts disagree. Some say breed 3-4 heats in a row and then spay, some day breed skip breed skip, some say breed breed skip, and there are many other varied opinions. You get the idea. I guarantee they all have facts and figures that support their theories. I can find you several websites right now that go against your opinion, with facts that have been reported and proven, just as I'm sure you can come with many resources that state you are correct. That's the way it works. In the end, I think that all good vets and all good breeders would agree that it is not healthy for a female to breed continuously for many many years every heat, but beyond that they all disagree. It is a breeders right to take in all this information and do what is right for them and for their dogs. It is NOT YOUR RIGHT to attempt to make their choices for them and use their information (or lack of it in this case) against them!

the latest research going around at seminars for breeders is saying start breeding on the second heat and breed every heat until they quit. That they will know when to quit. I would never do that tho.

[boodarlene]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Sorry, but, in my lifetime, I've NEVER heard a vet say anything other than two ways.
1) breed every other heat
2) breed two straight then skip.
I am going to start breeding, and one thing I won't do is breed every heat for 3 or 4 times. You go have a baby every 9 mos for 4 times straight, I couldn't do it and I sure wont' expect my female to do it either. To me, that sounds like someone only wantint to breed for the almighty dollars

:-) Sound like your going to be a good breeder! Good luck

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

:-) Sound like your going to be a good breeder! Good luck

Thanks. I am not going to put my female through a lot of breedings. I have had 3 kids, and they were spaced. the first ones were almost 4 years apart, then almost 6 years. I sure didn't want to be pg every 9 mos. and I'm not going to do that to my female. I'm only breeding her 2-3 times!
Then, she is retiring right here with me. LOL Maybe I'm not going to be a good breeder, as I'm not rehoming my females.