Breeding for Improvement?

[Golden Parti]

Did anyone study economics in school? The price of these dogs is completely a byproduct of supply and demand. Currently the demand far exceeds the supply of Parti colored yorkies. As the supply increases the price will fall. The current price for parti colored yorkies seems to be falling roughly $500 per year. Given everything remains the same then the price will become equal in a few years. This will only hold true if the demand does not increase as more people see the Parti colored Yorkies and the Biewer terriers.

Now back to the topic at hand. The Biewers have been bred for quite a few years now. There should be evidence by now of problems with them if there is any. Has there been any health issues other than those associated with other yorkies with them?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by iLuv Reeses

I tried researching about the Maltese and found out it was a very old dog. It was like the yorkie which was bred to hunt vermins but that was 8000 years ago.The maltese dogs are the dogs of the upperclass and the royalties when the yorkies were still being in the process of existence in the hands of poor scottish workers and with the social barrier of the poor and the rich, i wonder how they were able to use the maltese in that period? Aside from the Biewers, are there other partis not related with the Nikko line in the world? Please fill me in. There are only few materials I could find to read about the partis. Thanks.

Oh yes there are other lines. Some breeders came forward and confessed to the AKC that they had been getting them in their lines for years, but they gave them away (at least i hope they gave them away) and never counted them as part of the litter when they registered the litter. There are other lines out there but I would check with someone who knows before I would buy from anyone, because there are also some fakes.


the Nikko line is just the first one to push for them to be registered, and registered the first one, sired by Ch Nikko's Rolls Royce Ashley. All of my partis are descendents of him.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

And YTCA needs to address the teacup issue. They have a set stance on max weight not over 7 lbs but no where do they state a minimum weight
IMO they need to go with height and length standards instead of weight anyway. Weight on dogs is so variable, you can have a 12 inch dog that weighs 5 lbs and a 7 inch dog that weighs 8 lbs.

Yes they are so worried obut the color they haven't even addressed the size issue, which IMO is a much bigger issue. people selling those poor little things for $1O,000. they haven't disquaslified those dogs.

[iLuv Reeses]

i found a 1903 published google book about British dogs. YT is on page 582. The author, William Drury, did mention about a theory of the YT breed with a dash of Maltese Terrier. However, at the end of the YT section of the book, during the time of publishing, there was a demand for silver yorkshire terriers and even had a show class of its own. The author wrote that, "As, however, these for the most part are poor-colored examples of the true Yorkshire Terrier, it does not appear compatible with a desire to improve the breed to encourage them." (page 597)
IMO YTCA just protects the true Yorkshire Terrier as it was bred and created to be. With the theory from 1903, there is a chance that the dash of the maltese terrier blood can bring out the parti.

Whew... anyway, it was a nice read, learning about how they took care of the coat in the old-school fashion. Nice natural approach with the oiling and the yorkie diet.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

so accordng to the YTCA no one should sell puppies to anyone?? Unless you are showing yorkies you should not be able to own one? Cause no one else is supposed to breed or sell them? Now to me that is a bit of a "excuse the experssion", Nazi. As in only those who show are good enough to breed or own.

I think it means more that dogs should not be used as a form of profit. When dogs are sold for thousands of dollars in profit, per dog, with no justification of the cost, then IMO, it is really easy to lose track of what the priority (health, etc) should be.

And I certainly don't believe that only those who show should breed or own.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by wildcard

I think it is more likely that the the gene that causes parti color in yorkies (whether it happened in the development of the YT or more recently) is from a breed or precursor to a breed where you regularly see piebald as a coat pattern. This is an interesting article on the various alleles involved in coat color genetics. Coat Color Genetics


I am not sure why adding in a maltese here or there would cause parti color...

Golden Parti and Pinehaven are much more knowledgable about the genetics than I am, but there were other terriers that were spotted that were in the mix also.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Then why even mention the money? it serves no purpose.

As I already mentioned, because it is an issue too...just like people selling "teacups" for very large amounts. I wish they hadn't included that wording in their statment either. Makes it too easy to turn their own words against them and make it look like that is their main focus.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

Did anyone study economics in school? The price of these dogs is completely a byproduct of supply and demand. Currently the demand far exceeds the supply of Parti colored yorkies. As the supply increases the price will fall. The current price for parti colored yorkies seems to be falling roughly $500 per year. Given everything remains the same then the price will become equal in a few years. This will only hold true if the demand does not increase as more people see the Parti colored Yorkies and the Biewer terriers.

?

Or unless those who oppose the breeding of them convince enough people not to breed them and then the market will stay high.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Golden Parti

The price of these dogs is completely a byproduct of supply and demand.

Yes, among other things. Unfortunately you are right about this. The 'reasoning' behind this on the other hand, I don't think is agreed upon. The higher price has nothing to do with there 'not being many of them.' And if that IS the case, then it's a shame...because at that point the ability to pull in more money, not the well being of the dogs, it what becomes the main focus.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by iLuv Reeses

i found a 1903 published google book about British dogs. YT is on page 582. The author, William Drury, did mention about a theory of the YT breed with a dash of Maltese Terrier. However, at the end of the YT section of the book, during the time of publishing, there was a demand for silver yorkshire terriers and even had a show class of its own. The author wrote that, "As, however, these for the most part are poor-colored examples of the true Yorkshire Terrier, it does not appear compatible with a desire to improve the breed to encourage them." (page 597)
IMO YTCA just protects the true Yorkshire Terrier as it was bred and created to be. With the theory from 1903, there is a chance that the dash of the maltese terrier blood can bring out the parti.

Whew... anyway, it was a nice read, learning about how they took care of the coat in the old-school fashion. Nice natural approach with the oiling and the yorkie diet.

That is very interesting. thank you. Apparently the silver did not go over well since they no longer have a class for them.

I have no objection to their standards because I don't intend to show. it just confuses me as to why they object to the breeding of them. Why should they care. We aren't bothering them at all.

As I stated before, the tell us that they are not yorkies on one hand then turn around and say they are yorkies therefore we have control over them.

they are beautiful, they are healthy, they ar loving, they make wonderful pets, so why should they not be allowed to exist.

[Golden Parti]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I think it means more that dogs should not be used as a form of profit. When dogs are sold for thousands of dollars in profit, per dog, with no justification of the cost, then IMO, it is really easy to lose track of what the priority (health, etc) should be.

And I certainly don't believe that only those who show should breed or own.

a little education on breeding Parti Colored Yorkies.

Current Cost of dogs as set by supply and Demand $4000 to $5000 each
Cost of flying to check out to make sure breeder is not a puppy mill, another roughly another 1000 per breeder. Cost of health and Care for your new Parti colored dogs 1300 to 1400 per year.

Now raise your dogs for a couple of years and hope they have desirable traits of their parents. If they do not turn out the right size or with proper traits. Start over and find a new dog, possibly including cost to fly to visit breeder.

Ok, if you are lucky in a couple years and $13000 invested later you get your first puppies. OOOps, there are complications and you have to have C section. The vet also ends up nuetering the dog $500 to $2000 Start over and wait another 2 years unless you can find someone selling an adult for another $5000.

Is the price starting to make any sense yet? which cost should a responsible breeder cut? Do you believe they should skimp on the health care? Should they Skip checking out the breeders? Raising any dogs and giving them proper care is not cheep.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

As I already mentioned, because it is an issue too...just like people selling "teacups" for very large amounts. I wish they hadn't included that wording in their statment either. Makes it too easy to turn their own words against them and make it look like that is their main focus.

yes it does sound that way, and if it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's probably a ---------- well you know. That wording adds nothing to the sentence, but it takes the focus away from the color and puts it on the money.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I have no objection to their standards because I don't intend to show. it just confuses me as to why they object to the breeding of them. Why should they care. We aren't bothering them at all.

Because they are still YORKIES. And at that, they are not very common. There are alot of people that are breeding them unethically--not doing proper testing, not doing any kind of research, lots not even breeding full Yorkies, lots of millers all trying to sell something "rare" for a huge amount. The concerns are the same for the standard colored Yorkies. Whether they are accepted or not, as long as they are still associated with the Yorkshire Terrier, I feel like any Yorkie lover, breeder, YTCA member or not has a vested intersted in what is going on with them and has a desire to see fellow YT enthusiasts educated about them as fully as possible.

I honestly don't understand why is ISN'T an issue for some.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

so accordng to the YTCA no one should sell puppies to anyone?? Unless you are showing yorkies you should not be able to own one? Cause no one else is supposed to breed or sell them? Now to me that is a bit of a "excuse the experssion", Nazi. As in only those who show are good enough to breed or own.

I not sure how you got all that out of my statement; I realize for some, dog breeding is a business; many people don't believe it should be. How this relates to the Nazis, I don't understand. Show breeders' dogs are often much less expensive than pet quality dogs, and a real bargain, if you can obtain one. Most show breeders believe that puppy placement is more important than money received. I don't think it's imperative for every breeder to show, but I believe that a good breeder should work closely with others to insure that their breeding dogs are great examples of the breed, for many people can't properly evaluate their own dogs. When we have a pet, we often overlook its flaws, and only see its beauty, and I believe that's the way it should be. This is a difference in philosophy and I accept their philosophy, obviously you don't. I truly believe there are breeders out there who's only goal is to better the breed, not to make money from their dogs. Most show breeders are lucky to break even.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by wildcard

I think it is more likely that the the gene that causes parti color in yorkies (whether it happened in the development of the YT or more recently) is from a breed or precursor to a breed where you regularly see piebald as a coat pattern. This is an interesting article on the various alleles involved in coat color genetics. Coat Color Genetics


I am not sure why adding in a maltese here or there would cause parti color...

Maltese are an example of extreme white piebald spotting, they're basically one big white spot.