Limited Registration Concerns
 

This weekend, I met a lady and PetSmart and got to talkin' Yorkies with her. To cut out a bunch of boring details, long story short, she had never heard of the concept of selling a dog w/out breeding rights. She thought that it just meant a breeder/owner agreement not to use the breeder's kennel name. When I told her it meant 'no breeding the dog whatsoever,' she acted as if it was the most absurd thing she'd ever heard of! :rolleyes: It actually came across that she was offended and mad that I had said that--kind of took on a very "who do you think you are for suggesting that" attitude. And this was just a stranger I was randomly chatting with on the PetSmart isle who saw my Yorkie purse! :confused: :eek: This makes one of several people I've run across lately who thought the whole idea was out of the question.

Optomistically, I would *hope* that this was a common practice with breeders--that those who truly 'don't care' would be the minority. Sadly, it seems just the opposite though. It seems that taking the neccessary precautions to ensure offspring are not bred is something that very FEW actually do....even here on YT.

To me, it does not reflect well on a breeder who willingly sends their pups off with little or no regard to how many future litters that dog *could* possiblly be responsible for bringing into this world. It just baffles me that any breeder could "dedicate" themselves to what is best for their dogs and the breed and then turn around and send their dog off w/ no restrictions on breeding--or even worse, PROMOTING the dog for breeding--and not even have a clue as to if the dog will be of a quality that *should* be bred.

I find it all very disheartening. And what I have found lately that just makes me almost sick is that it seems like a foreign concept for breeders to withhold rights to everyone and that they can't even "understand" why anyone would do that. :( A bit of thinking outloud I suppose, but it's frustrating and I really just don't get it....

spay or neuter before selling is the only way to be sure
too many dishonest people i guess:aimeeyork

Its too bad that most people dont want you to have any say so after the puppy becomes "theirs". Its like, "dont you tell me what to do with MY dog". I would have to say that 95% of the people that enquire about my puppies want to breed them. Its like thats the second thing out of their mouth when asking about them. The first thing is "how big are they?' And MOST people who have puppies for sale DO NOT mark the LIMITED box as they know darn well that they will loose a sale that way.

True, but not the point I was trying to make. It's not the people getting the dog that I was complaining about...

I know just what you mean Lynn...I found a long time ago that if the first statement out of my mouth is, "they come with a restriction on being bred" formerly interested parties are generally quick to end the conversation. No skin off my back, saves me time....;)

My breeder sold with full breeding rights also. Mine are spayed and neutered

Bottom line is that there are too many people out there breeding Yorkies irresponsibly. Is it any wonder that Yorkies are 36 times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined and are rated #4 in number of cases of luxating patellas by the OFA? :mad:

My breeder sells with limited registration and witholds the registration papers until she recieves a neuter/spay certificate. She also rebates $100 back to the new owner,which actually paid for the cost of the neuter. She is a wonderful breeder. It's sad there are so many breeders that won't help control uneducated breeding practices :(

I havent sent in Baylees papers yet. Where on the papers is the box that would be checked. I am not seeing it.

I guess the realization for me this weekend was: This is something that SHOULD be a routine practice for ALL breeders. Instead, it is so rarely done (considering the number of breeders there are) that it comes as a shock and is "unheard of" when mentioned to others.:( It even happens here all of the time, I think of us YTers as the most Yorkie lovin' group around who 'get it', so to even see that attitude and pattern here from time to time...

I don't know much about this topic just thought I'd chime in with a thought or 2. Since I'm not interested in breeding myself I never really thought about it before reading your post but you have pointed out some good reasons for breeders to not want their dogs to be bred. Maybe the lady in the pet store never thought of it the way you put it. She may just think that because she's purchasing the dog it's hers to do what she wishes with even if her intentions aren't to breed it. Plus there are some dogs out there that should not be bred due to lack of knowing the background (rescue situations and so on) of where they come from (health issues etc.) I completely understand your frustration and the lady should open her mind up to understanding about it more. I'm interested in reading more on this to be more educated on this topic myself.

The truth is no matter what they say most people are breeding their pet yorkies for the money. They don't care if they are hurting the breed, they don't care if the pups end up in a puppy mill or dies because a back yard breeder simply has no idea how to help them. My boys always go to new homes first because it is so hard to find homes for the gals where I can feel secure in knowing that they won't be used to furnish someone's family members with yorkies. I had one lady even tell me "but I bred a burnese mountain dog once". I had another lady exclaim " I have a male so why not breed her?" Sad to say that this kind of mindset is very prevelent out there. They may as well say to me "what the heck, it's just a dog, as long as I get what I want out of it, I paid for it!" Sounds like I'm selling my angels into slavery and than they seem surprised when I tell them to look elsewhere. If it's just a business for alot of breeders they don't care what happens to the merchandise once it leaves their home, as long as they make the money. It's really sad and I don't know how to change it.

I am going to throw my 2 cents in here and I know people don't agree but this is just me.

I think alot of breeders could care less about you breeding they are just trying to protect their lines. That is why you see so many less quality females being breed. To purchase a nice female with rights is nearly impossible.

I only can see selling a tiny female with a limited.

Exactly Tami! :thumbup:

And I realize that there are always going to be those 'buying' who don't get it, but to me it's even worse when a breeder doesn't 'get it' or even care...:(

Misty, surprisingly this doesn't shock me at all. I don't think your average byb or person, gives just anyone breeding, a second thought. I've had way too many ask after having Ruby for a year and then getting Reno, "oh, so now that you've got a male, you're going to breed them now?" They seem surprised than I am not and often ask why.

I usually take it as an opportunity to educate about irresponsible breeding.

I guess this is the difference in a breeder and a backyard breeder. I got Max from a backyard breeder and I doubt she knows what limited registration means. Heck she even told me I SHOULD breed Max because "he has such a sweet temperament". She called me last week and said she had another male who was from Brazil if I wanted him. She said he came from prestigious lines, was very laid back but too big to breed as she was 'smalling down" because 'everyone wants the little ones'. :rolleyes:

Well if we are being honest here.... If I am going to purchase a Yorkie, and pay the price that many are asking, then I want full breeding rights. I have breeding rights to Diesel. He isn't fixed( I was scared to have it done plus I am not convinced it prevents certain problems) and I have no intentions of breeding him. I still would like to have that choice tho given the price I paid for him. Now,that being said... Had I paid a lower price for him then I would have had no problem with a limited registration.

It is difficult to get a good quality brood bitch from a top breeder. Why should someone like Georgette Franzoni who has put the last 30 years into establishing a superior line and her kennel name trust me with her lives work? I've been showing with Georgette for over a year now but I will have to continue to prove myself if I ever want to get a gal from her. I'm working hard to establish a line and make a name and I'd hate for someone to breed one of my gals to an ugly boy and make ugly pups with my name on their pedigree but even worse I'd hate my line to be aligned with a litter having liver shunt, luxuating patellas and worse because someone just didn't bother to do their research. Getting started correctly in this is very difficult because so many people have lied to get what they want and trust is hard to come by.

I agree :thumbup:

Thats the mentality I dont understand. Arent you buying a pet/companion first? What difference does the cost of the dog make as long as you have a pet that you love dearly. Why would you want the option to breed it? I am not trying to be rude to you, I just dont understand.

I didn't buy Diesel with the intentions of breeding. I wanted a pet/companion. That being said when I started looking for Yorkies I have to admit I was shocked by the prices! I wanted one anyway and forked over the money. BUT, for the price that I paid I didn't want a limited registration. I honestly think that if that prices of Yorkies were to come down then this wouldn't even be an issue. You wouldn't have BYBs wanting to make a quick buck and you also wouldn't have buyers complaining about the limited registration.So many breeders insist they aren't in it for the money yet the prices are crazy. I know I am not the only one who feels this way..

I can also see this from the breeder's point of view. I have to wonder if you see this problem with other breeds that aren't in demand. It sure would make for an interesting study.

The popularity of our breed does make things more difficult. Everyone sees a quick buck. The same thing happened to the cocker spaniel years ago and was disasterous for that breed. Cockers were poorly bred by people who just didn't care to know any better and for years they have been plagued with eye problems, hip problems and a whole host of other health issues. The same thing happened to the Lab and is now happening to the Yorkie. An other issue is the small litters. I have already put $600. into my next litter not to mention the $2500. that I paid for the dam plus her show costs. She is expecting 2 pups. How can I afford to sell them for $350. each? Problem is in so many cases you don't pay for quality with yorkies, you pay for size. Breeding the yorkie down in size has brought it's own multitude of problems.

I also have a breed that isnt in demand and dont under any circumstances want Skye puppies in a mill or byber scene. The Skye Terrier Club of America keeps a tight rein on things and Skyes are not easy to come by. Once in a blue moon I will see one in a pet store for sale and I did see one on a video of an Amish mill.

Its a shame that all the bybrs have raised the prices sooooooooo high that the purchasers feel that they have to breed the dog to re-coup the money. Or maybe , in someway, feel that they might have a new way of supplementing their income. I think the bybrs have raised the prices to keep up with the big box pet stores in the malls but are still slightly under the price at the mall.

The price of the dog does not make the dog a breedable specimen of that breed. There are 5000 dollar T-cups being sold. Does that make them a breeder quality dog? There are now sooooooooo many horrendous specimens of this breed being cranked out for huge dollar amounts that the Yorkies doesnt even resemble a Yorkie anymore and now they have designer colors.

To me, a pet is a pet and that is what you are buying, a pet. Pet quality should not be bred no matter if you are paying 200 or 2000.

So, generally speaking...
How does it reflect on a breeder who doesn't limit the registration of their dogs?
Who places them, adults or pups, intact, with no restrictions on breeding them?
What does this say about a breeder's ethics and concern for the preservation of the breed in general?

IMO, I see no reason for complaint from prospective owners regarding limited registration UNLESS they are planning outright to breed, or considering it in the future. Otherwise, what would be the reason for objection?

I wouldnt have had any objections to limited registration and one of my yorkies was priced at the higher end for our area.

Just cause I wanna object, Bama. ;)

I have no interest in breeding...all of mine are neutered. Reggie was purchased with a limited registration.

Personally I think it shows a lack of concern...where their dogs or future puppies end up.

You're not objecting...you're agreeing...troublemaker.;):p

Don't hurt me~Please!
 

Okay...lord, help me word this right so that my head is still intact after it is read....

From different posts about and around about this issue (by all means, correct me if I am wrong) it seems that the ones who actually breed for their own lines and show potentials are more adament on this and other issues. Understanding of course.

I honestly think your average potential yorkie owner isn't going to be able to afford a dog from a person who shows...Let's face it, we all think our puppies are cute...but people who show do as well and many have ribbons & trophies and such confirming it. But I am also discovering that there are tons of people that really don't care if they are registered...they just want a yorkie....I think I will leave that one alone for now.

When I went to register my pups...My husband balked at me about limited registration..also stating, who am I to tell them what they can or can not do after they have purchased one of your puppies...then he proceeded to compare our furkids with naked...if you were to place one of your boys up for adoption...the new parents adopted them...but there would be a stipulation to the adoption that, lets say...you can't allow them to take dance, no marrying or cutting their hair...can't remember some of the other ones he used...(have to admit, even though we are talking apples to oranges..some were good) But in the end, it came down to:
Who are you to tell these people, who YOU hand picked to raise your puppy..you know...the ones that filled out your three page puppy application and did everything you asked..., that they can not do exactly what you are doing?

Honestly, I can see both sides. When I searched for mine, I was up front and honest with the breeders telling them I did want to breed...looking back, I probably would have waited and went with another breeder....however, I do believe that with EVERY breeder, show or no show, we can all look back and say, "if I knew....." I think that forums like this one help educate those of us that do want to better the breed and hopefully wake up those who haven't thought of it.

I'm so concerned about all the different types of yorkies. Most of the time you wonder where they got they were even a yorkie. They sure don't look like it. I have a hard time with seeing breeders that arent' breeding for the quality, health that is possible if we all done our jobs. I have seen so many designer dogs, what we use to call mix and mutts. They now gave a fancy name and then charge for it. I have seen so many dogs with poor health condition and poor coats and the breeders don't even seem to care. I think when selling a dog you should discuss with the buyer why they don't get breeding rights. And it is very important to stregthen the breed and get away from the problems that we hear about so much today.

Just like everything else in this country...as long as there is a demand for it, people will keep buying the designer mutts.

Sadly, this one statement alone indicates the problem. There shouldn't be different "types" of Yorkies. :( Hmm...different 'types' of Yorkies, but still just one standard....:rolleyes:

My personal opinion is also that if you place your dogs with full breeding rights, no questions asked, then IMO you are not doing the breed any favors, should NOT be breeding period and not the type person I would want a dog from. :mad:(And that is putting it VERY mildly.)

And again, it is VERY unfortunate that this is the "norm" and what SHOULD be done everytime is "uncommon."

As far as this being a problem with other breeds, I can imagine it is, just on a much smaller scale. I know that Shih Tzus are very common in my area and it is a problem with them as well.