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-   -   Limited Registration Concerns (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/139993-limited-registration-concerns.html)

BamaFan121s 07-29-2008 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkieisme (Post 2145392)
:thumbup::thumbup:
This is the reason why I will not buy CKC, APRI etc. because they bought the puppy as pet only then turned around and bred it when it states not to sometimes there are reasons why a puppy is considered a pet and not breeder/show.
Well, you can assume that is the reason why , but you never know if that was really the case or not unless you get to know the breeder. I would be suspect to that it was the case, but it doesn't neccessarily mean it was. :) Of course, everyone has their preference and if people are more confident in AKC and what it stands for than any other registry, then why would they consider buying anything but?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkieisme (Post 2145392)
SO breeders out there please spay/neuter your babies prior to sell, it would save money and heartache for the pet owner if he/she dies during the spay/neuter, and your "lines" that some of you state you work so hard at keeping.
I agree with you, unfortunately these issues are happening so frequently, that s'n before leaving the home seems like the ONLY sure way to protect your dogs.:(

Katylou 07-29-2008 09:06 AM
I purchased my baby Yorkie with a limited registration and I think that it is a good idea and I was not put off by it. Too many (excuse me for being blunt) "ignorant " people out there that try to breed dogs and don't know a thing about it. Thus, weakening the breed standard. Just my 2 cents.

yorkieisme 07-29-2008 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2145448)
Well, you can assume that is the reason why , but you never know if that was really the case or not unless you get to know the breeder. I would be suspect to that it was the case, but it doesn't neccessarily mean it was. :) Of course, everyone has their preference and if people are more confident in AKC and what it stands for than any other registry, then why would they consider buying anything but?



I was told a long time ago by a pet owner that they would never buy another AKC dog again. I asked him why and he stated his dog (boxer) was so wired up from all of the line breeding that he had to put him down. He stated the dog would jump fences and run and chase people down to bite them.To this date he has bought nothing but CKC and he swears they are perfect. But I do not see myself running out and buying one, I just ask to see the pedigree when the time comes to put a deposit down on one. And guess what I have not put a deposit down on one yet. There is one little guy I am interested in so please keep your fingers cross for me.

I agree with you, unfortunately these issues are happening so frequently, that s'n before leaving the home seems like the ONLY sure way to protect your dogs.:(
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Dreamer74 07-29-2008 10:28 AM
I agree a lot of people do not care if they are registered or not because the paperwork means nothing to them for a pet. However I do believe that you should not pay the same price for a non papered or limited registration dog as you would for one with full breeding rights. Personally I would never purchase a nonregisterable dog, mostly for the fact that chances are the parents should not have been breed in the first place. Note that I say purchase not own, I have no problem with owning a nonregistered dogs I am just not going to pay a bunch of money for one.

cesar49 07-29-2008 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2144323)
That was what I thought too years ago. Unfortunately, many don't care about the price...they may pay 1500 for a pup, but think in their heads, "Wow, if 1 pup is this much, imagine what I could get for a whole litter if I sold them myself!" They either aren't aware of the costs of breeding, or don't care. All they are concerned about is profit. And once that is what someone has their mind set on, it can be hard to pursuade them to think otherwise. Someone of that mindset clearly doesn't have the dog's best interest at heart in the first place.:(
exactly:thumbup:
after finding out what breeders do.. i would not sell to someone who ASKS about breeding rights
move on to the next person
and rule them OUT:aimeeyork

Nancy1999 07-29-2008 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesar49 (Post 2145671)
exactly:thumbup:
after finding out what breeders do.. i would not sell to someone who ASKS about breeding rights
move on to the next person
and rule them OUT:aimeeyork
I actually think that this is an important question for buyers to ask the breeder, so don't rule them out too quickly. As a buyer, I want to ensure that the breeder has the best interest of the dogs in mind.

BamaFan121s 07-29-2008 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2145712)
I actually think that this is an important question for buyers to ask the breeder, so don't rule them out too quickly. As a buyer, I want to ensure that the breeder has the best interest of the dogs in mind.
Good point...maybe the buyer is just testing the breeder.

Dreamer74 07-29-2008 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2145712)
I actually think that this is an important question for buyers to ask the breeder, so don't rule them out too quickly. As a buyer, I want to ensure that the breeder has the best interest of the dogs in mind.
Thanks, I completely agree

Dreamer74 07-29-2008 11:11 AM
Also if someone asks you (a breeder) about breeding rights you should not make an assumption about that person, if for no other reason than you are breeding them yourself so a person could assume the same thing about you. I think you should take the time to explain why breeding rights are not available and discourage them from starting to breed.

cesar49 07-29-2008 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer74 (Post 2145743)
Also if someone asks you (a breeder) about breeding rights you should not make an assumption about that person, if for no other reason than you are breeding them yourself so a person could assume the same thing about you. I think you should take the time to explain why breeding rights are not available and discourage them from starting to breed.
i would still be suspicious i guess:animal-pa
breeders choice:aimeeyork

cesar49 07-29-2008 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2145712)
I actually think that this is an important question for buyers to ask the breeder, so don't rule them out too quickly. As a buyer, I want to ensure that the breeder has the best interest of the dogs in mind.
too many people are breeding after lieing to the breeders:animal-pa
who can you trust?
its hard to find out what people are REALLY like.
there are plenty of breeders who just dont care
im sure its not hard to find a male intact :aimeeyork

Dreamer74 07-29-2008 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesar49 (Post 2145807)
i would still be suspicious i guess:animal-pa
breeders choice:aimeeyork
I agree you should question it, it is nice to be able to make the call of not selling to someone.

Nancy1999 07-29-2008 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesar49 (Post 2145817)
too many people are breeding after lieing to the breeders:animal-pa
who can you trust?
its hard to find out what people are REALLY like.
there are plenty of breeders who just dont care
im sure its not hard to find a male intact :aimeeyork
I know this is very difficult, but just because someone asks, I wouldn't rule them out. I think I would perhaps explain why this particular dog should not be bred, and if they are looking to breed, then the dogs they use should be prime examples of the breed. Have a real conversation with them, and sell with limited registration. If you are afraid the people might still breed the dog, and register with alternative registries, you can always get the dog neutered before leaving, which is probably the safest way. Choosing a home for the pet you produce is probably one of the hardest things a breeder does.

kismet 07-29-2008 12:04 PM
I just bought a 4 month old girl. My very responsible show breeder would not let us have her until 4 months and we had to sign a paper and have her altered. It is very hard to get a female that represents the breed well. We looked for a very very long time. We do not show and we will not breed of course. We just wanted a very good representative of the breed from someone who was working very hard to protect the breed. We are a 5 Yorkie extended family owners. It is extremely important to control the breed especially for health reasons. One of ours likely will under go a name change to "Mercedes" as we pay off $10,000. (total in his life) vet bills for liver issues.:) We just love the breed and certainly have more respect for the quality breeders and we will always save money and go there when we buy again.

Tnyorkiemom 07-29-2008 12:33 PM
after reading throught this entire thread i have to say lots of people do think well it's my dog , i can do what i want with it..that being said ...my breeder put it this way....she can talk to some one all she wants and that wont ensure that they are the right parent ...but if she sets the price a little high then she has a better chance of selling to a loving and caring parent....cause if they pay more for one they are more likely to take the proper care of it....most of the time she does not limit...but if she truely believes that the pup will not reach 5 pds adult age she sells as pet only.....

JMO...when i see a yorkie being sold for less than $ 1000....the first thing i think is "what's wrong with it"....people are people....everyone is different...they will do what they want to do with or without a breeder's agreement....i have heard of people falsifying vet records to look like they were "fixed" to get registration papers....and then breed ........again people are gonna do what they want.....you just have to do the best you can and leave it to God...

No im not a breeder...but i plan on being one in the near future

DukesMommy 07-29-2008 03:43 PM
[QUOTE=Dreamer74;2145743]Also if someone asks you (a breeder) about breeding rights you should not make an assumption about that person, if for no other reason than you are breeding them yourself so a person could assume the same thing about you. QUOTE]

I agree, I asked Lucie's breeder a lot of different questions, and it was more of a way for me to ensure that she was a good breeder. I had found her online, and wasn't going to be able to see the litter right away, so I wanted to make sure I was going to be dealing with someone who was honest and everything.
Though breeding rights wasn't one of my topics for questioning...She could have assumed from some of my questions that I didn't know a lot about Yorkies which wouldn't have been true..

Missiemiss 07-29-2008 04:18 PM
I find this topic very interesting and potentially explosive as to the philosophies of dog owners.

I am glad this thread is being continued as it does raise some very good questions and concerns from breeders versus primary pet owners.

I do agree that the health of the dog is the first and foremost priority. My experience with another breed (over the past 21 years) showed me that it was not always the case. Sometimes some of the health problems (genetically) are from even the most responsible breeders.

I just don't want to see too many fingers pointed at BYBs. I also do not want to see those fingers pointed at the responsible breeders.

Thanks for providing an outlet to talk about issues - even the delicate ones like this. :)

Dreamer74 07-30-2008 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missiemiss (Post 2146554)
I find this topic very interesting and potentially explosive as to the philosophies of dog owners.

I am glad this thread is being continued as it does raise some very good questions and concerns from breeders versus primary pet owners.

I do agree that the health of the dog is the first and foremost priority. My experience with another breed (over the past 21 years) showed me that it was not always the case. Sometimes some of the health problems (genetically) are from even the most responsible breeders.

I just don't want to see too many fingers pointed at BYBs. I also do not want to see those fingers pointed at the responsible breeders.

Thanks for providing an outlet to talk about issues - even the delicate ones like this. :)
I agree having posts like this is very important, I just hope people remeber it is all personal opinion. I would hate for someone to be offended.

kismet 07-30-2008 06:51 AM
Sometimes I think people try too hard to be liked. It is o.k. for people to disagree with you. That is what debate and knowledge is all about. I've learned to risk being "not liked " when I tell people it is too hot to have a black dog in a pick up at 90 degrees or a dog on a chain with no shade or a breeder that encourages you to breed without health combination issues discussed. We are the protectors of our dear furry friends and I don't hesitate to say something to a parent taking a youngster to Batman movie either. (Very scary movie for pre-teens and younger). Maybe sometimes we can "shame" people into recognizing how precious life in your hands is. Sure it risks being told to "mind your own business" but that's worth it.

cesar49 07-30-2008 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missiemiss (Post 2146554)
I find this topic very interesting and potentially explosive as to the philosophies of dog owners.

I am glad this thread is being continued as it does raise some very good questions and concerns from breeders versus primary pet owners.

I do agree that the health of the dog is the first and foremost priority. My experience with another breed (over the past 21 years) showed me that it was not always the case. Sometimes some of the health problems (genetically) are from even the most responsible breeders.

I just don't want to see too many fingers pointed at BYBs. I also do not want to see those fingers pointed at the responsible breeders.

Thanks for providing an outlet to talk about issues - even the delicate ones like this. :)
:thumbup:
I do agree that the health of the dog is the first and foremost priority. :animal-pa

Wigfur 07-30-2008 07:22 AM
Curious
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkmalli (Post 2144216)
I think that once you purchase a pup that it is yours to do what you will with it and if you want to breed it yes you should educate yourself but to me a breeder may see it that if you breed the puppy you bought then that is money out of their pocket....but this is just my opinion.
Okay I was kinda wondering this myself... how much is protecting the breed,and how much is fearing more competition.. I mean, with the inet now and so forth, people can buy a puppy from all over the world and have it shipped to them. So if there's a breeder in your town,but the one on the inet is cheaper even with shipment, which would you choose? I'm sure this makes it hard for the breeders to sell with so much competition and yes there are a lot of scary breeders out there I have to agree.

So I have a question for breeders here....
1. How has the ability to advertise on the Inet and ship puppies hurt you?

Leo will be fixed, I can't let him breed.. I would wan to keep all the puppies.

BamaFan121s 07-30-2008 07:28 AM
You have brought up a very interesting point and something I have always been concerned about--I can't fathom why anyone would buy a dog over the internet, sight unseen...but that's just me.
I don't think that alot of your breeders are hurt by this or that they care. Many are not in a 'competition' to sell--I guess maybe if you are counting on profiting off puppy sales then it would be detrimental to business... Many breeders have a waiting list for pup before they even breed and don't advertise at all. (I would bet many of these are the people who probably DO enforce restricting the breeding rights of their pups too!) Just my .02 on that.

Wigfur 07-30-2008 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2147591)
You have brought up a very interesting point and something I have always been concerned about--I can't fathom why anyone would buy a dog over the internet, sight unseen...but that's just me.
I don't think that alot of your breeders are hurt by this or that they care. Many are not in a 'competition' to sell--I guess maybe if you are counting on profiting off puppy sales then it would be detrimental to business... Many breeders have a waiting list for pup before they even breed and don't advertise at all. (I would bet many of these are the people who probably DO enforce restricting the breeding rights of their pups too!) Just my .02 on that.
It has my curiosity up, I mean I know people do a lot of research on the inet,and I know that when you find a breeder they may have a web page as well. It makes me wonder how many people would rather pay less on the inet then pay more at a breeder right there near them? Leo was purchased from a breeder two hours away. But I know a lot of others that have had their puppies shipped to them.

What is your preferred method? Do you ship your puppies at all? Or do you only sell to those that will drive up to get them? Many of the breeders I talked to when getting Scott's lab (had to be a good dog as it is his service dog) said they ship puppies a lot via plane!

mohawkmalli 07-30-2008 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2144332)
Meaning the breeder has no concern for what happens with the dog after it leaves their home? Is THAT a quality you'd actually WANT a breeder to have?
Sure, many WILL educate themselves and do right by the dog...but what about those who don't? How else can a breeder protect the dog and the breed in general?

I respect your opinion as I do everyone's, but I have to agree with Pat on this one. If you spend decades perfecting your lines, all it takes is one breeding of a good dog to a poor one to produce a bad representation with who knows what genetic defects...and the 30+ year dedicated breeders name is stuck to that for all eternity.
then when this person started breeding how was it that they got their good name??? Did they not have to buy from a "perfect" breeder who was afraid of selling their breeding rights? And yes I think that some of it is about the money otherwise people would not be trying to sell the babies for thousands of dollars!!!!

mohawkmalli 07-30-2008 10:41 AM
[QUOTE=BamaFan121s;2144332]Meaning the breeder has no concern for what happens with the dog after it leaves their home? Is THAT a quality you'd actually WANT a breeder to have?
Sure, many WILL educate themselves and do right by the dog...but what about those who don't? How else can a breeder protect the dog and the breed in general?

I respect your opinion as I do everyone's, but I have to agree with Pat on this one. If you spend decades perfecting your lines, all it takes is one breeding of a good dog to a poor one to produce a bad representation with who knows what genetic defects...and the 30+ year dedicated breeders name is stuck to that for all eternity.


I think that only some of it is to protect the breed and that some of it is fear of competition especially if you purchase locally....I would just like to know how these "perfect" breeders got their start?????

BamaFan121s 07-30-2008 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigfur (Post 2147960)
What is your preferred method? Do you ship your puppies at all? Or do you only sell to those that will drive up to get them?
At this point I have not had to consider the option of shipping a puppy--I've essitially had parties interested before breeding. Had one guy a while back I had to find a home for. But I'm not a high volume breeder. Simply put, I want to meet the new owners. I want them to be involved enough that they want to meet me, that they want to meet and bond with the dog, that they want to see the parents, the conditions the dogs are kept in. If those things don't interest them, then no thanks. Now that being said....I can think of exceptions...a breeder or person I feel I know well, who knows me, etc. But other than that, probably not. If someone can get one "cheaper" online, go ahead, I won't lose sleep over it. I'm not intersted in trying to 'underbid' someone else. I'll keep them all for myself!

I agree though...it's an interesting point to ponder.

wildcard 07-30-2008 11:03 AM
I have not shipped puppies and I am not inclined to. I sold one from my first litter to a wonderful owner several states away and she flew in to meet us at a show (we have a motorhome, we don't take babies into the show buildings) to pick her up. Other than that they have driven to us, sometimes several hours, or we have met them somewhere. The price of airfare and the fee for a pet to fly in cabin are not too much more expensive than shipping the dog itself. That said, I did have a dog shipped to me from Sweden. She has never been a good traveler which I think is an effect from that long, scary flight, and were I to buy a dog from overseas again I would fly over myself to escort the dog/puppy home. Live and learn.

bchgirl 07-30-2008 11:09 AM
If price is the criteria for purchasing...I don't see how one could possibly be purchased on line and shipped cheaper than locally... perhaps it's a regional matter. If I were shopping by price...there are AKC yorkies in our newspaper every day starting at $600. In order to beat that price...I'd have to find someone offering puppies at $300 because shipping is around 300 bucks.

Price is the least of my criteria...I did, however, look on line to find biewer breeders located within driving distance from me.

yorkiekist 07-30-2008 11:52 AM
[quote=mohawkmalli;2148067]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2144332)
Meaning the breeder has no concern for what happens with the dog after it leaves their home? Is THAT a quality you'd actually WANT a breeder to have?
Sure, many WILL educate themselves and do right by the dog...but what about those who don't? How else can a breeder protect the dog and the breed in general?

I respect your opinion as I do everyone's, but I have to agree with Pat on this one. If you spend decades perfecting your lines, all it takes is one breeding of a good dog to a poor one to produce a bad representation with who knows what genetic defects...and the 30+ year dedicated breeders name is stuck to that for all eternity.


I think that only some of it is to protect the breed and that some of it is fear of competition especially if you purchase locally....I would just like to know how these "perfect" breeders got their start?????

I dont think that most reputable breeders, or as you say "perfect" breeders are worried about competition(except in the show ring!LOL) or loss of sales as that is not the reason they are breeding. Most of us already have waiting lists of people that are wanting a puppy and they dont mind waiting for a great quality pup. Most of the, as you say, "perfect" breeders got their start by having a mentor first, studying, researching, learning about the breed before ever breeding a litter. Then they start with excellent quality dogs and go from there. Most of the quality dogs that they start with are co-owned by the breeder/mentor.

Wigfur 07-30-2008 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2148112)
I'll keep them all for myself!

I agree though...it's an interesting point to ponder.
hehe I know the keeping them for myself thing. I met with my breeder, and I wanted to see where he was coming from, did all those things. But I do know a few ladies at the firm I work for and in class that have purchased their dogs by the inet. So it made me wonder just how many buy from the breeders online, rather then finding someone local or close to purchase. I wonder this in many things though,with things so easily found online. I understand your points very well,but am curious by nature. That's a good thing. lol I think of Leo as my baby,and would want to know that if I were breeding that my babies were going to the right homes and would stay in touch with them. I think that above all is what would make me comfy with a breeder,do they care about their puppies after they have gone to new homes.


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