how young is too young to test for liver shunt??

[lulababy]

hello all. I am writing to give you guys an update. bam bam had his best day yesterday... he started off good by eating some hills presciption diet a/d with a little ground up hard food in it. I had only given him nutracal early in the morning after he had thrown up and was a little weak but no more after that. He ate 2 more times during the day, the same mix of a/d and ground up hard, about 1 1/2 teaspoons each time!! I gave him a bath in some of pebbles mink sheen in case he was itchy and that is why he is rubbing against the furniture and took of his tiny collar with the little bell charm incase that was bugging him as well. I made sure he got some good long naps in. He did great!! he was up and around and playing with pebbles and I and seemed to be doing really well. He also was drinking water on his own (wow!). This morning he ate some more and I will try to feed him some more food in a little bit. Maybe he is finally settling in? I am so happy to see him doing so much better!! I hope he keeps it up!! I love him so much and this past week has been so hard--I am glad that it is looking like he does not have any serious problems going on. I will be weighing him daily and watching his weight hoping he will be putting some on soon!! thank you everyone for all your help and advice and prayers!! it has really helped obviously.

[gardenyorkies]

Originally Posted by lulababy

hello all. I am writing to give you guys an update. bam bam had his best day yesterday... he started off good by eating some hills presciption diet a/d with a little ground up hard food in it. I had only given him nutracal early in the morning after he had thrown up and was a little weak but no more after that. He ate 2 more times during the day, the same mix of a/d and ground up hard, about 1 1/2 teaspoons each time!! I gave him a bath in some of pebbles mink sheen in case he was itchy and that is why he is rubbing against the furniture and took of his tiny collar with the little bell charm incase that was bugging him as well. I made sure he got some good long naps in. He did great!! he was up and around and playing with pebbles and I and seemed to be doing really well. He also was drinking water on his own (wow!). This morning he ate some more and I will try to feed him some more food in a little bit. Maybe he is finally settling in? I am so happy to see him doing so much better!! I hope he keeps it up!! I love him so much and this past week has been so hard--I am glad that it is looking like he does not have any serious problems going on. I will be weighing him daily and watching his weight hoping he will be putting some on soon!! thank you everyone for all your help and advice and prayers!! it has really helped obviously.

So happy to hear he is doing better!...Keep a routine for him and remember to feed him often!...Protein is not stored in the body and is used up quickly where as your carbs will last longer so he needs both....Do keep giving him his nutri-cal first thing in the morning to make sure his sugar is up and last thing at night to help him get throught the night...You will probably have to keep this up until he is older and puts on more weight...

Also, dry kibble is harder to eat and sometimes the smaller pups just get too tired to eat after chomping away on hard food so do make sure to keep up the soft canned food!..My Rosie, my first yorkie, was on canned for for her first year or more...She is 9 years old and just eats dry food now!...Keep us updated on his progress!

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by lulababy

hello all. I am writing to give you guys an update. bam bam had his best day yesterday... he started off good by eating some hills presciption diet a/d with a little ground up hard food in it. I had only given him nutracal early in the morning after he had thrown up and was a little weak but no more after that. He ate 2 more times during the day, the same mix of a/d and ground up hard, about 1 1/2 teaspoons each time!! I gave him a bath in some of pebbles mink sheen in case he was itchy and that is why he is rubbing against the furniture and took of his tiny collar with the little bell charm incase that was bugging him as well. I made sure he got some good long naps in. He did great!! he was up and around and playing with pebbles and I and seemed to be doing really well. He also was drinking water on his own (wow!). This morning he ate some more and I will try to feed him some more food in a little bit. Maybe he is finally settling in? I am so happy to see him doing so much better!! I hope he keeps it up!! I love him so much and this past week has been so hard--I am glad that it is looking like he does not have any serious problems going on. I will be weighing him daily and watching his weight hoping he will be putting some on soon!! thank you everyone for all your help and advice and prayers!! it has really helped obviously.

Wonderful news!!!!!!

Just a word of advice.... please leave his collar off. Collar can damage the trachea of toy breed dogs causing a condition called collapsed trachea. They are also dangerous. We had a puppy on another forum hang to death when his collar got caught on his X-pen.

Keep us posted. I pray he's on the road to recovery!

[NanaDtreasures]

I am so glad he's doing better.
Will be thinking of the little guy and saving prayers he continues to do well

[Amazing Yorkies]

Wonderful News! Glad you both had a good day!

[Ellie May]

That is great.

I do not understand why a blood panel is being recommended though.
So we shouldn't take blood for a bile acid test because it is too risky but we should take it for a blood panel that is going to give use less information about the liver?

A blood panel is a good tool but the bile acid test is much more likely to indicate a problem with liver function. Ultimately both should be done but since that is too much blood to be taking, I would really hesitate to just do a general panel. I think a specialist could best decide which way to go here.

A/D shouldn't be given to any dog suspected of having liver problems.
I'm not saying to stop using it because your vet gave it to you but I would talk to them about switching to something else. That much protein and those ingredients are not okay until liver problems are ruled out.

And just because symptoms go away doesn't mean they can't return.
If drugs/vaccines were given it could've brought out symptoms that have since went away because the body has processed the toxins now...

So while it is very likely that your pup doesn't have liver issues at all, I'd be very careful until I knew for sure.

[bjh]

Why wouldn't you do a blood panel on a sick dog?????That is what every vet I know does as a first step. A full blood panel can tell a doctor a lot. Read here: CFYTC Health & Grooming - Liver Shunt

It is not advisable to do a BAT test on a small young puppy. A blood panel will let you know if the liver is compromised. If the liver is compromised you would want to put the puppy immediately on a liver cleansing diet and go from there. The most important thing is to get the puppy stable and that can be done with proper diet and medications then start looking at your different options.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by bjh

Why wouldn't you do a blood panel on a sick dog?????That is what every vet I know does as a first step. A full blood panel can tell a doctor a lot. Read here: CFYTC Health & Grooming - Liver Shunt

It is not advisable to do a BAT test on a small young puppy. A blood panel will let you know if the liver is compromised. If the liver is compromised you would want to put the puppy immediately on a liver cleansing diet and go from there. The most important thing is to get the puppy stable and that can be done with proper diet and medications then start looking at your different options.

I would do a blood panel on any sick dog where doing blood draws wasn't a concern. If we are specifically talking about the liver here though and only one test can be done, the bile acid test would give use a lot more information. The ALT doesn't go up for liver shunt/MVD too easily. The liver has to be quite damaged for it to reflect that (usually).

So if we have no idea what is going on then a blood panel is the way to go but if a liver issue is suspected, just because the liver enzymes aren't up means nothing because it isn't uncommon for the liver enzymes to be fine and there still be a problem...

If a blood panel consistently indicated liver problems that are caught on bile aicd testing, that is great, but blood panels just don't give a good enough picture.

Now if there is reason to believe that this isn't the liver at all and the vet is worried about something else, then a panel would be the way to go in my opinion.

[Duncanmom]

Hi-

I also would recommend you calling the breeder and letting her know what you are going through. I am sure she/he would want to know whats going on with the pup she raised.

[011011]

Originally Posted by bjh

Why wouldn't you do a blood panel on a sick dog?????That is what every vet I know does as a first step. A full blood panel can tell a doctor a lot. Read here: CFYTC Health & Grooming - Liver Shunt

It is not advisable to do a BAT test on a small young puppy. A blood panel will let you know if the liver is compromised. If the liver is compromised you would want to put the puppy immediately on a liver cleansing diet and go from there. The most important thing is to get the puppy stable and that can be done with proper diet and medications then start looking at your different options.

This is what my vet would do!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Duncanmom

Hi-

I also would recommend you calling the breeder and letting her know what you are going through. I am sure she/he would want to know whats going on with the pup she raised.

Here is the original thread that was started in the Emergency section. The OP is in touch with the breeder and the breeder has been posting on this thread.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...ng-enough.html

Apparently the vet does not think it is a liver problem and the vet did not feel it was necessary to do blood work at this point.

[Ladymom]

Oh, dear. I hadn't seen the original thread. Apparently the OP bathed little Bam Bam in Hartz flea shampoo. I have heard so many horror stories about deadly reactions to Hartz and other flea products sold over the counter. I wonder if this could be the cause of his symptoms?

The side effects from Hartz flea products are frightening:

HartzVictims.org - One More Victim is One Too Many

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by Duncanmom

Hi-

I also would recommend you calling the breeder and letting her know what you are going through. I am sure she/he would want to know whats going on with the pup she raised.

Oh trust me , i have been trying to stayon top of how Bam Bam was doing the move thing from the get-go except it seems i am only contacted after all the other possibilities have had their say

I just found this thread as i am busy most of the time and don't get on here and search but did today as i am not hearing from or able to contact the OP

Believe me i have been trying to offer advice , support and comfort - not sure if the breeder to owner connection is there.

I do wish Lulababy would call me , turn on phone or email me as to what is going on

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by Duncanmom

Hi-

I also would recommend you calling the breeder and letting her know what you are going through. I am sure she/he would want to know whats going on with the pup she raised.

Also , i want to say that i have offered to drive the 400 miles to her and bring Bam Bam home until both he and her are over the medical issues they seem to be having. I have not been able to convince her that would be in his best interest.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by hasrv4fun

Also , i want to say that i have offered to drive the 400 miles to her and bring Bam Bam home until both he and her are over the medical issues they seem to be having. I have not been able to convince her that would be in his best interest.

I understand your frustrations. Do you know if Bam Bam has had any vaccinations since he went to his new home? I am just wondering if it could be a reaction to vaccinations.