I respectfully ask

[011011]

Originally Posted by EmrldShdwQueen

I can clearly see both sides of the story. It kills me that there are people putting their dogs lives in jeopardy just because they wanted to make a few extra bucks. And I do believe that something should be said to them, and don't feel that they should be considered a "reputable breeder."

BUT on the other hand, there are some of us who don't show their dogs and provide pets to loving homes, and I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just like everyone else has said, you can come to my house or talk to people who have, and see how spoiled rotten my dogs are. I don't raise my dogs in a kennel outside, they are all inside and live EXCELLENT lives, and I stand behind that. My puppies are healthy and all my girls are within standard size (5-7 lbs) if they're going to be bred. I did extensive research beforehand, and I have a mentor who has been doing this a long time. What's so wrong with that? Yet I still get ugly emails and PMs, and hear all the time that "so and so said this about you" and BLAH BLAH BLAH and I am TOTALLY sick of it. It seems like ANYONE who posts that doesn't show is being talked about in a negative way. And I DO NOT agree that all reputable breeders show their dogs. Yes, there is a lot of watering down that has been done to this breed, I agree. I would never breed a 10 lb (or a 2 lb) girl, and I would never breed a dog that doesn't look like a yorkie. Debbi is a wonderful person, and she truly cares about her dogs, just like me. It's sad that she and many others who do care are being cast out and talked about. That shouldn't be the case.

Good post Nicki

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

And what criteria would there be to make a closed forum? How do you truly know what experience a person has or hasn't had? We only know a person by what they choose to post on this forum. Some people claim to have more experience than they have actually had, and other may actually have more experience than they appear to have. Assumptions should not be made as we don't truly know a person based soley on what they have chosen to post or not post.

Second, a closed forum will only hinder breeders. Many people that are knowledgeable about the breed but choose to not currently breed won't be able to give any valuable information they do have. I think it is close-minded to assume that only those actively breeding have any knowledge when it comes to this breed or breeding in general. Also, those who are not currently breeding but trying to learn would be shut off from information in which to learn from. By selecting who can and can't post, you are basically creating a group of close-minded individuals who do not want to hear anything differering from their opinions and experience. All experiences and opinions should be welcome, read, and considered. If someone is open-minded, I think they will see that there is potential to learn from everyone.

Again, I defer back to what our wise moderator said ,We learn from experiences and if you aren't a breeder, frankly, you don't have any. If you are a breeder please share with everyone.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by 011011

:

But this forum is not only used for questions regarding whelping and raising a litter. Many people choose to use this forum for discussions on health screening, breeding to standard, etc. I completely agree that experienced breeders will have the most knowledge (usually) on whelping and raising a litter and any problems that come along with it. I don't see too many people giving whelping advise that aren't experienced. I feel like what the big issue is with most is the debates/discussions about breeding in general...may don't seem to like anyone that has strong opinions on how breeding should and shouldn't be done. They are opinions - you can take them or leave them - but you shouldn't just shut them out because you don't like them. They may benefit someone else.

Okay, and case in point:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=125391

The OP wanted to know about health screening before breeding. I sure didn't see any experienced current breeders jumping up to answer her questions. I may not be breeding my dogs, but I do know what health screening is available so I offered what I knew. You can't tell me that the information I posted wasn't potentially helpful to someone breeding. I just think this proves that "non-breeders" can be of use on this forum

[NanaDtreasures]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

I cannot imagine that someone would actually send a nasty pm to someone that they disagreed with or to use an email address to start a slam attack. You have got to be kidding.... if that is going on, it reminds me of a movie I saw recently called "Mean Girls".

NanaD - please keep up the encouragement - it would be tragic to lose members over heated debates.

Oh they can ..and they do...lol!!!
Thats the thing.
Its "Breeder talk"
Not Breeder DEBATE.

[011011]

The OP wanted to know about health screening before breeding. I sure didn't see any experienced current breeders jumping up to answer her questions. I may not be breeding my dogs, but I do know what health screening is available so I offered what I knew. You can't tell me that the information I posted wasn't potentially helpful to someone breeding. I just think this proves that "non-breeders" can be of use on this forum[/QUOTE]


Maybe you seen it before we did. If I see someone had posted and gave correct answer I may or may not post and give my point of view.

[chattiesmom]

I would not want to see a closed forum. What I would like to see is a Breeding Forum that follows the guidelines set forth by YorkieTalk. If members would simply follow the posting rules they would be polite in their responses and if that was not possible they would refrain from posting.

I don't know who originally posted this: "I don't want flying lessons from someone who has never piloted a plane. When I am whelping a litter, I don't need advice from someone who has never done it." but it is so very true. You can have all the "book learning" and opinions necessary to START learning to become a breeder, but until you have lived with a pegnant bitch, gone through a labor and held a wet newborn in your hands, you just can't understand all that is involved.

[011011]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

I : "I don't want flying lessons from someone who has never piloted a plane. When I am whelping a litter, I don't need advice from someone who has never done it." but it is so very true. You can have all the "book learning" and opinions necessary to START learning to become a breeder, but until you have lived with a pegnant bitch, gone through a labor and held a wet newborn in your hands, you just can't understand all that is involved.

It was bakersdozen and I give her a for it

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

And what criteria would there be to make a closed forum? How do you truly know what experience a person has or hasn't had? We only know a person by what they choose to post on this forum. Some people claim to have more experience than they have actually had, and other may actually have more experience than they appear to have. Assumptions should not be made as we don't truly know a person based soley on what they have chosen to post or not post.

Second, a closed forum will only hinder breeders. Many people that are knowledgeable about the breed but choose to not currently breed won't be able to give any valuable information they do have. I think it is close-minded to assume that only those actively breeding have any knowledge when it comes to this breed or breeding in general. Also, those who are not currently breeding but trying to learn would be shut off from information in which to learn from. By selecting who can and can't post, you are basically creating a group of close-minded individuals who do not want to hear anything differering from their opinions and experience. All experiences and opinions should be welcome, read, and considered. If someone is open-minded, I think they will see that there is potential to learn from everyone.

This is a very good point you have made about how assumptions should not be made, as we can't know a person based on what they have chosen to post or not to post. This is a wonderful principle to keep in mind, and will help us all to be respectful in our posts.

It is true that many who do not breed have a great deal of knowledge. The fact remains, however, that knowledge is not the same as experience. It's like learning to drive (or learning another thing I won't mention here...lol) You can read all you want, but until you're behind the wheel you really don't have a clue.

I don't see the problem in having two forums...one for breeders and the other just on the subject of breeding. As far as educating others....It could be that everyone can VIEW the breeders forum, and only breeders can post. Or questions can be submitted through a moderator for breeders to respond to. There are a variety of ways it could work. It is true that some will not accurately represent their qualifications. But that's no different than it is now, so I don't see how that really represents a roadblock. And not all breeders share the same views, they differ greatly.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by 011011

The OP wanted to know about health screening before breeding. I sure didn't see any experienced current breeders jumping up to answer her questions. I may not be breeding my dogs, but I do know what health screening is available so I offered what I knew. You can't tell me that the information I posted wasn't potentially helpful to someone breeding. I just think this proves that "non-breeders" can be of use on this forum

Maybe you seen it before we did. If I see someone had posted and gave correct answer I may or may not post and give my point of view.[/QUOTE]

i don't post a lot of times if someone else has answered or
maybe the reason we didn't post was because most of us have left the forum. If i have a question, I would certainly go to someone that has experience before someone that has book knowledge if the two were standing side to side.. I know I have experience but I also know that their are those breeders that are far, far more eexperienced than I am. You know what, those are the ones we aren't seeing on here anymore. okay, I am done. i don't want to be the reason the thread is closed. I have already stated my opinion.

[MyFairLacy]

Again, I dont see anyone without experience giving advice on whelping litters. I believe the real issue here is that people just don't want to see differing opinions on the threads that discuss breeding in general. It's close-minded. There is nothing wrong with discussions or debates if people aren't being rude or personally attacking a member. Life is full of people with different experiences and opinions...you can't expect for everyone to feel exactly the same about an issue on forum. If you don't like somone's opinion then ignore it

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

I would not want to see a closed forum. What I would like to see is a Breeding Forum that follows the guidelines set forth by YorkieTalk. If members would simply follow the posting rules they would be polite in their responses and if that was not possible they would refrain from posting.

I don't know who originally posted this: "I don't want flying lessons from someone who has never piloted a plane. When I am whelping a litter, I don't need advice from someone who has never done it." but it is so very true. You can have all the "book learning" and opinions necessary to START learning to become a breeder, but until you have lived with a pegnant bitch, gone through a labor and held a wet newborn in your hands, you just can't understand all that is involved.

or until you have sat up for four or five nights in a row hand feeding a brand new litter every hour on the hour. I still think it should be a closed forum.

[NanaDtreasures]

Originally Posted by Jody Renfroe

NanaD, I think I know who you are, and you are a wonderful, caring person. Please don't let the negative posts get to you. It's just not worth your getting upset over. Some of the negative posters need to step back and take a good long look at themselves and their hearts. JMO

Thank you.
But to be honest I am still here. Still posting
Nobody is scaring me away....
This post is more for others who are afraid to post.
And who get nasty PMs and Emails.
I am here to learn more then I know already.You can never know enough.
I am here to help anyone I can.
But most of all I am here to share with others who love Yorkies

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

I would not want to see a closed forum. What I would like to see is a Breeding Forum that follows the guidelines set forth by YorkieTalk. If members would simply follow the posting rules they would be polite in their responses and if that was not possible they would refrain from posting.
I don't know who originally posted this: "I don't want flying lessons from someone who has never piloted a plane. When I am whelping a litter, I don't need advice from someone who has never done it." but it is so very true. You can have all the "book learning" and opinions necessary to START learning to become a breeder, but until you have lived with a pegnant bitch, gone through a labor and held a wet newborn in your hands, you just can't understand all that is involved.

This is a great point....there would be no need for a closed forum if the rules were followed.

[011011]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 011011
The OP wanted to know about health screening before breeding. I sure didn't see any experienced current breeders jumping up to answer her questions. I may not be breeding my dogs, but I do know what health screening is available so I offered what I knew. You can't tell me that the information I posted wasn't potentially helpful to someone breeding. I just think this proves that "non-breeders" can be of use on this forum



I did not post this! myfairlacy did and I replied to it

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Again, I dont see anyone without experience giving advice on whelping litters. I believe the real issue here is that people just don't want to see differing opinions on the threads that discuss breeding in general. It's close-minded. There is nothing wrong with discussions or debates if people aren't being rude or personally attacking a member. Life is full of people with different experiences and opinions...you can't expect for everyone to feel exactly the same about an issue on forum. If you don't like somone's opinion then ignore it

This is the issue, not the differing opinions. (In my opinion. lol )