I respectfully ask

[NanaDtreasures]

Originally Posted by Susan123

Me neither Debbie, there should be no reason for this thread to get too heated or to be closed. I certainly don't mean anything personal against you (I was speaking in general). I hope it didn't come off that way, if it did I apologize.

[TeddyandTiffy]

I know how U feel & if I have even made U feel this way I'm sorry. Sometimes I felt like I too was being attacked (I think maybe we've all felt this way at some point and time here on YT??) and didn't like it, I still feel that way with some of the replies but that comes from my post but that comes with the good and the bad of our OPO or our own personal experiences so I take it in stride. And sometimes I feel under (Please don't take this the wrong way)some of U here as far as Show Quality or more Experienced Breeders but it's not in a bad way all the time, it's through a learning way and if I ever want to get to where U all are then I have to earn that and work toward that. So this is why YT Breeding/Showing Section is so important to me, to learn.

I'm by NO means a experienced Breeder, but I came here to YT to learn and try to help others through my experiences from when I started breeding, grooming, feeding, training Yorkies...Yes I myself have been lippy as U may call it and I've tried to tone that down some, not all the way I know yet (I do hope I NEVER get banned from YT, I'd be lost without it .) but I am a very truthful person.

I am striving to become a Breeder (May of been what others view as a BYB before leaning from my mistake but that's okay too) who does breed for the better of the Yorkie Breed, I realized some, maybe not all of my mistakes and yes we all breeders, show people ect... have and do make mistakes. I had Tiffiane spaded so we wouldn't be one to throw out large puppies and lie about it and them be put in shelters and so forth. Will we have show Quaility Puppies with Sage and Galahad? I don't know until we breed them and see what they have, should there be pet quailty puppies or larger ones as they do tend to run in Tiffanies' line, then they will be adopted out for pet quality only.

I've gotten advice from Several Show Breeders here on YT and I will learn with breeding but I will try not to make the same mistake twice.

I have had 2 litters with Teddy and Tiffanie and out of those Litters we got Sir. Galahad out of our 1st litter and he seems to have what we need to breed with Sage to have a better quality of AKC Standard Yorkies and out of our 2nd litter we got Sofie and she is a better quality of the AKC Standard Yorkie. All others we're adopted out on Spay/Neuter Contracts as Pet Quality puppies.

Now I'm not saying we're at the Show Quality stage of our breeding but I don't feel these 2 litters of puppies we're in vain, they have pruduced a better quality of Yorkies so that we may improve our lines. We did have to adopt Sage in order to get that other line of Yorkies going for us and help us improve our line.

The reason I'm trying to explain my whys of breeding and view of it for us is so others coming to this board new doesn't think I'm a know it all (Which I'm not) or that I haven't had my ups and downs here at YT with others OPO of me or my Yorkies or even my breeding but I try not to take it personally or as an attack. Or for others to think that I had perfect puppies with these 2 litters by no means was they perfect for AKC we just happen to have 2 that is more to the AKC Standards not all the way to the AKC Standards. But maybe with Sage and Galahad we will be at the AKC Standards, maybe not, we may not have Show Quality yet either. Time will tell this. But we are striving to get there and yes we all make mistakes but we should try to learn from these mistakes not keep repeating them.

I hope this all makes sense to U all. All I know is that I do want and need the Breeders Section here at YT to go on and not to be shut down, I myself love it here and learn so much.

I'm sorry if I myself have made others here feel under anyone else or hurt feelings, please forgive me if I have, I'm not trying to hurt anyone or fuss, just maybe try to help someone to learn what I've gone through and not to make the same mistakes I have made.

[NanaDtreasures]

Originally Posted by TeddyandTiffy

I know how U feel & if I have even made U feel this way I'm sorry. Sometimes I felt like I too was being attacked (I think maybe we've all felt this way at some point and time here on YT??) and didn't like it,

You have never made me feel this way.
As someone else posted I am VERY confident in my breeding.
And I always like your posts.

Tho I gotta pull a funny....
You have 695 posts
You're as bad as me !
We can go on and on in our posts....hehehehe
Have you ever thought of...how our post count would be soooooo much higher if we weren't such Yorkie Yackers? LOL!!!!
A bit OT I know...but I just had to say it!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by simonandhallie

Nobody here at YT is trying to silence anyone but when breeders (regardless of size) are afraid to post out of fear of being attacked, it poses a problem.

The breeding section is a place to learn, improve, grow, laugh, cry, and share experiences. It should not be a place to be judged or attacked.

I don't know how many times I can say this but if you have nothing nice to say to someone don't say it. It's so very simple. If you have advice that will help someone please share it. If you have made mistakes, please share those so people can learn from it. We learn from experiences and if you aren't a breeder, frankly, you don't have any. If you are a breeder please share with everyone.

Very well said. We can all learn from each other. We should not be attacking people just because we don't agree with them or they don't agree with us.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by simonandhallie

Nobody here at YT is trying to silence anyone but when breeders (regardless of size) are afraid to post out of fear of being attacked, it poses a problem.

The breeding section is a place to learn, improve, grow, laugh, cry, and share experiences. It should not be a place to be judged or attacked.

I don't know how many times I can say this but if you have nothing nice to say to someone don't say it. It's so very simple. If you have advice that will help someone please share it. If you have made mistakes, please share those so people can learn from it. We learn from experiences and if you aren't a breeder, frankly, you don't have any. If you are a breeder please share with everyone.

I rarely post on the breederss forum and will help anyone that pm's me but I am tired of being attacked. I also invite anyone that wants to, to come and see my home and dogs and how I do things. many have already been here but there are still those that say some of us are BYB. i have better things to do than keep on and on trying to defend myself. Then have thrown in my face "Well, if you aren't hiding anything, why get so defensive". the answer is simple. I am tired of it. it is only a few people that attack us but for some unknown reason those few are allowed to go on and on. They get to the point of saying enough to get themselves suspended, then stop and if you answer them back, well, I know personally, you are the one in trouble so why even try. I am just about done with the breeders forum.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by NanaDtreasures

I so agree with this.
And may I add...Dont PM them .And dont Use their Email addys to slam them.
Dislike them if thats the way your heart works.
But dont slam them...Thats not what this place is suppose to be about.
Gosh...I hope this doesnt turn into another debate thread.
Theres been too many debates already and we're losing wonderful people.

i hate pm's. I have had to resort recently to blocking a certain person then she started using the form processor on my website to harrass me. I quickly turned her abuse over to freewebs for investigation.

[Susan123]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

I rarely post on the breederss forum and will help anyone that pm's me but I am tired of being attacked. I also invite anyone that wants to, to come and see my home and dogs and how I do things. many have already been here but there are still those that say some of us are BYB. i have better things to do than keep on and on trying to defend myself. Then have thrown in my face "Well, if you aren't hiding anything, why get so defensive". the answer is simple. I am tired of it. it is only a few people that attack us but for some unknown reason those few are allowed to go on and on. They get to the point of saying enough to get themselves suspended, then stop and if you answer them back, well, I know personally, you are the one in trouble so why even try. I am just about done with the breeders forum.

I completely understand about wanting to stay out of posting/reading on BT.

[EmrldShdwQueen]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

I rarely post on the breederss forum and will help anyone that pm's me but I am tired of being attacked. I also invite anyone that wants to, to come and see my home and dogs and how I do things. many have already been here but there are still those that say some of us are BYB. i have better things to do than keep on and on trying to defend myself. Then have thrown in my face "Well, if you aren't hiding anything, why get so defensive". the answer is simple. I am tired of it. it is only a few people that attack us but for some unknown reason those few are allowed to go on and on. They get to the point of saying enough to get themselves suspended, then stop and if you answer them back, well, I know personally, you are the one in trouble so why even try. I am just about done with the breeders forum.

I feel the exact SAME way.

[NanaDtreasures]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

i hate pm's. I have had to resort recently to blocking a certain person then she started using the form processor on my website to harrass me. I quickly turned her abuse over to freewebs for investigation.

This is just wrong!!!!
I dont have a website. I did have a cute little page.
And I may have it again someday.
I'm working on it and wanting to add lots of new pics.
Not of puppies , but pics of my adopted furbabies as they grow up.
I get so many pics of them and so many of the people that I ask, say sure use them. Its cute the way they all groom them so different.
I am so happy every time I see a new pic~!
But to abuse someones website this way is unreal...
I post my email addys in my profile
So that anyone who is afraid to post at YT can write me.
I do not like to think anyone can not ask me questions or ask for advice.
That a puppy or even the Mama would die .
I've gotten BAD emails by putting my addys up.
But that goes along with all the sweet ones.
I'm sorry this has happened to you

[spr377]

Originally Posted by simonandhallie

Nobody here at YT is trying to silence anyone but when breeders (regardless of size) are afraid to post out of fear of being attacked, it poses a problem.

The breeding section is a place to learn, improve, grow, laugh, cry, and share experiences. It should not be a place to be judged or attacked.

I don't know how many times I can say this but if you have nothing nice to say to someone don't say it. It's so very simple. If you have advice that will help someone please share it. If you have made mistakes, please share those so people can learn from it. We learn from experiences and if you aren't a breeder, frankly, you don't have any. If you are a breeder please share with everyone.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Susan123

Believe it or not, in this vast community there are BYBer's in Yorkietalk. Breeders striving for excellence cannot keep silent. We need to see more of it, we're talking about overpopulation and terribly misaligning a breed.

I absolutely agree with the article (for the most part) that was posted. We shouldn't be breeding for the fun of it, shouldn't be breeding out of standard dogs. I've spayed/neutered dogs (1) I know are not a good representation of the breed standard and have began to build a good foundation. I don't have any trophies on my walls (yet) But that is my goal. Not to impress anyone, but to gain approval of my breeding stock by the judges. So you can (for now) put me in that category to if one must. I however, don't believe you have to show. I'm sorry you felt you had to defend yourself.

I have to say, this original post is scary. It's unbelievable. No one will silence breeders trying to do away with BYBing and trying to encourage those around to breed within the standard (no one should want them to imo). It has been spoken about more so lately and I think there's a reason for that. I don't believe in sticking my head in the sand for anyone.

I agree with most of this. No one should be sticking their head in the sand but instead researching, listening, and learning. Yes, I have seen some outright rude attacks and I believe that is very wrong and unnecessary. But many of the posts that get called "rude" or "attacks" are not that at all - they are true concern for the dogs and this breed. Breeding is a huge responsibility and not something to take lightly. Many times people come here asking for advice, and when they don't get told exactly what they want to hear, they get defensive and start calling others rude. Things need to be said so that others can learn from it and do what is best for the dogs. It's important to remember that you can't read tone so someone shouldn't automatically assume that a person is being rude.

Also, I think many people need to realize that when people post, it is not all about them. Many of us, myself included, are speaking in general when discussing breeding. No breeder our group of breeders is being singled out or being called this or that. It is all being spoken about in general. I think it is childish to continue with assumptions...if someone feels they are being singled out, maybe they should ask the poster about it instead of just assuming that they are being talked about. I don't see a problem with discussions or debates as long as no one is outright rude or personally attacking another member...differences of opinion and discussion are how we learn. Also, I think everyone can contribute to a discussion, no matter their age or personal experiences...I know many pet owners that sadly know more about this breed than most people breeding the dogs. Everyone should be open minded to whoever is posting...everyone can contribute, help educate, and be learned from.

I think we should all remember that YorkieTalk is supposed to be here for the love of the dogs. If someone is going to take on the responsibility of breeding, they should know what they are doing beforehand and know just how serious it is....you are dealing with the lives of the adults and potential puppies that may result. And you have a responsibility to this breed in general. Breeding is a privelege, not a right and should not be taken lightly. If we truly love the dogs, we look out for their best interest right? I just feel many times that a lot of people care more about not hurting anyone's feelings than the dog's life...there has to be a balance... I feel like the dog's are the silent and defensless ones though and need people to stand up for their best interest.

[Jody Renfroe]

NanaD, I think I know who you are, and you are a wonderful, caring person. Please don't let the negative posts get to you. It's just not worth your getting upset over. Some of the negative posters need to step back and take a good long look at themselves and their hearts. JMO

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

I rarely post on the breederss forum and will help anyone that pm's me but I am tired of being attacked. I also invite anyone that wants to, to come and see my home and dogs and how I do things. many have already been here but there are still those that say some of us are BYB. i have better things to do than keep on and on trying to defend myself. Then have thrown in my face "Well, if you aren't hiding anything, why get so defensive". the answer is simple. I am tired of it. it is only a few people that attack us but for some unknown reason those few are allowed to go on and on. They get to the point of saying enough to get themselves suspended, then stop and if you answer them back, well, I know personally, you are the one in trouble so why even try. I am just about done with the breeders forum.

Kim
We learn from experiences and if you aren't a breeder, frankly, you don't have any. If you are a breeder please share with everyone.

I forgot to address the above sentence in your post but you are so right and I agree 100 percent. The breeder forum should be a place where people having problems can come and ask the breeders who have experience for help. A closed forum would be a great idea.

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I agree with most of this. No one should be sticking their head in the sand but instead researching, listening, and learning. Yes, I have seen some outright rude attacks and I believe that is very wrong and unnecessary. But many of the posts that get called "rude" or "attacks" are not that at all - they are true concern for the dogs and this breed. Breeding is a huge responsibility and not something to take lightly. Many times people come here asking for advice, and when they don't get told exactly what they want to hear, they get defensive and start calling others rude. Things need to be said so that others can learn from it and do what is best for the dogs. It's important to remember that you can't read tone so someone shouldn't automatically assume that a person is being rude.

Also, I think many people need to realize that when people post, it is not all about them. Many of us, myself included, are speaking in general when discussing breeding. No breeder our group of breeders is being singled out or being called this or that. It is all being spoken about in general. I think it is childish to continue with assumptions...if someone feels they are being singled out, maybe they should ask the poster about it instead of just assuming that they are being talked about. I don't see a problem with discussions or debates as long as no one is outright rude or personally attacking another member...differences of opinion and discussion are how we learn. Also, I think everyone can contribute to a discussion, no matter their age or personal experiences...I know many pet owners that sadly know more about this breed than most people breeding the dogs. Everyone should be open minded to whoever is posting...everyone can contribute, help educate, and be learned from.

I think we should all remember that YorkieTalk is supposed to be here for the love of the dogs. If someone is going to take on the responsibility of breeding, they should know what they are doing beforehand and know just how serious it is....you are dealing with the lives of the adults and potential puppies that may result. And you have a responsibility to this breed in general. Breeding is a privelege, not a right and should not be taken lightly. If we truly love the dogs, we look out for their best interest right? I just feel many times that a lot of people care more about not hurting anyone's feelings than the dog's life...there has to be a balance... I feel like the dog's are the silent and defensless ones though and need people to stand up for their best interest.

It is true that breeders have a responsibility. However, when a new person comes on needing help, the simple fact is that many of them do not have the knowledge to realize the responsibility that comes with breeding. Not because they are stupid or lazy or deliberate, but because the average person (including the vets they get their instruction from) does not know it. The knowledge held by most of those on YT is not that of the average person. And when they come on here for an answer to a simple question, they instead get a host of responses about how they should not be breeding. This is not helpful, and in fact discourages them from asking anything. So the help they might have received on whelping their litter, etc.....they do not get. I cannot see how this is in the best interest of the dog.

By no means am I saying that the ethics of breeding should never be mentioned. It definitely should, otherwise these people will never be educated. However, there is a polite way of doing it that is rarely seen here.

I don't think anyone has a problem with people having concern for the dogs and breed, I have never seen anyone complain about someone showing concern. And there are indeed a great many posts which do not name names or refer to anyone individually. However, I do see a lot of scenarios like this (just a generic one here, I don't want to use anything actual):

Breeder--I choose not to bile acid test my puppies, because I don't consider the test to be accurate at such a young age.

Poster--In my personal opinion, any reputable breeder would bile acid test their puppies.

While it is true the poster is just stating their opinion, in the context it is no different than saying the breeder is not reputable. No wonder it is considered rude! How much nicer it would be to simply state their differing opinion on the testing, acknowledge that others may have a different opinion, and go on about their merry way. The poster has then educated, but in a respectful way.

And, in this spirit, I will acknowledge that others may have differing opinions. One last thought...if a person finds that they are often interpreted as being rude, regardless of their intention, it would be the humble and courteous thing to examine their posts closely. One or two people can easily be wrong, but if a person is consistently viewed as rude by several people....could be they have a point.

[mypreciouspups]

Originally Posted by NanaDtreasures

I meant to make this its own thread.
I know so many people are not reading the BYB posts anymore.
I ask ADM to delete the other

I respectfully ask that we stop the debating about BYB
While we all know there are TRUE BYB that are nothing more then small Puppy Mills..And some do breed their dogs with knowing little or nothing
I respectfully want to say that you are NOT necessarily a BYB if you dont show your dogs Its disheartening to always be here at YT...where I thought was a nice place

To always feel .....like one of many here who as a loving Owner and breeder We always have to defend themselves 24/7
Its one debate after another anymore...Its so sad. And drives so many away.

I would invite each and every one of you to my small hobby farm.
To meet me....come in my home...to see my barns where my goats and other animals are....
See my Yorkies and other furbabies how much they are loved and cared for.
I'll go for a walk around my Lake with you and your furbabies .
I know you'll enjoy it as much as me and my furbabies do.
But dont blame me if my goats follow us and nip at your shirt...
I think you would see as family... friends and neighbors do.
What kind of person I am
None of them would think of me being a BYB . But a nice caring person.
I've had school children here.

I love my animals and if any of you know my situation.
They are a huge part of my life.

I respectfully ask that those of us here not be attacked so we fear posting.
I respectfully ask that you stop...think...before you post that peoples feelings do get hurt.
Hugs to all of you

Thank you for this thread.. I am also a small hobby breeder and I feel the same as you. Come to my house, see how my dogs live, how I live, talk to my vet who will tell you I care about what I breed and how I do this. How I feel integrity is more important to me as a person...
I am always willing to learn.. always wanting to get the best yorkie I can get to breed without being a show breeder..(this is not easy to do)
But I see far to much of the beating up verbally on this forum.. and far too much announcing how they feel..
People that show,.. were not born with this talent.. nor people that breed..
Puppymill people would not want to join a thread like this, they seem to hide out in order to sell to pet stores.

I have seen so many insults and seen so many extremely hurt over so many threads..
Maybe many should come here as a friend.. wanting to learn and not just be judgemental. There are many good breeders on here I have learned so much from show breeders and hobby breeders alike.. I too am asking all, including breeders to not make judgemental comments. My intention is to learn not to be judged or ridiculed..
Those threads about BYB's needs to stop.. It is obvious that we have lost and are losing too many good people.
thanks for listening....anne