Breeding for profit

[bjh]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

Those of you who show and do so honestly and without malice, you have my sincere respect and admiration. However, you know there is a dark side to the show world that is hard for the rest of us to take.

No matter what you do in life there are dark sides and you cannot let the bad things in life get you down or keep you from doing the right thing because if you do the bad guys win.

[dudley1984]

Though not aimed at improving the breed, per se, my breeding is not harming it. All I ask if for you to consider the possibility that good professional breeding, for profit, can ultimately improve the breed by cutting into the puppy mill market, which is truly deplorable and detrimental. You want respect for what you do, and I want the same.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

Though not aimed at improving the breed, per se, my breeding is not harming it. All I ask if for you to consider the possibility that good professional breeding, for profit, can ultimately improve the breed by cutting into the puppy mill market, which is truly deplorable and detrimental. You want respect for what you do, and I want the same.

I am not one to condemn responsible breeders that do not show. When I started raising Yorkies I was all to familiar with the show scene and I know how political and cut throat it can get but I still enjoy going to shows. I have met some very nice people there and they have been very helpful to me. To me, honestly, I think showing is more of a ego trip for many of them but in a way I cannot blame them, especially if they are showing and finishing their own home bred dogs. No matter what you do in life you should strive to be the best at what you do. Anyone can go buy a show dog, hire a handler and make it a champion but to me the real satisfaction would come from breeding and finishing my own dog. It may never happen but that is my goal. Unless you are breeding perfect dogs (which I don't think exists) then you should always strive for perfection even if it seems unattainable.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

Though not aimed at improving the breed, per se, my breeding is not harming it. All I ask if for you to consider the possibility that good professional breeding, for profit, can ultimately improve the breed by cutting into the puppy mill market, which is truly deplorable and detrimental. You want respect for what you do, and I want the same.

you know, I only have one little dog that I have had in a couple of shows. That has only been recently so you cannot say I am a 'showy type". But, I will tell you one thing I have learned. There are people on here that will always call those that aren't into showing BYB. I have stopped even trying to defend myself. if they look at my dogs, my program and all the things I do and still call me a BYB because I don't show, then they are never going to be convinced otherwise so you are just beating your head into the wall.

[dudley1984]

It gets awfully lonely on this board sometimes...I am involved in a club and peripherally on the show scene, but the part of this work I love is keeping house for my Yorkies and their babies. I have multiple college degrees and a professional job, but the best part of any day for me is to hug a puppy after I've had to wash its messy bum-bum.

[blitz]

Dudley, you're right somehow this got thread got off topic from betterment of the breed so I'm going to point out that getting your dogs out there and putting titles on them is how you know for sure that your dogs are worthy of to be in your breeding program. Otherwise, it's too easy to breed dogs with ears that are incorrect, soft toplines and bad coat texture. You can say it is show quality all you want but until you get your dog out there competing and winning, you're proably forgiving faults in your breeding stock that you probably would not forgiving if you were putting in the show ring. You are not going to win with a dog that isn't good. So that's why those that don't show are often lumped in with bybs. It's the assumed quality of your dogs.

I'd like to add that I love the dog show world even with all its quirkiness. An AKC championship is not easy to come by and you prove a lot about your dog and yourself by being able to get in the ring and compete with the big boys and with politics being what they are, you really do need to have a good dog to win. But you will win if you have a good dog, maybe not all the time but nobody wins all the time. It is not for the meek or thin skinned but don't knock it because it is a real accomplishment to successfully show your dog.

Breeding quality and show quality should be one and the same because like begets like and I sure didn't make that up. If you breed dogs that are not show quality, you are not going to produce outstanding dogs and you are not going to "better the breed" or even your own breeding program. Showing your dogs keeps you honest in your breeding program. It seems that you really want the recognition of the show breeders otherwise why would you care if you are referred to as bybs?

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

you know, I only have one little dog that I have had in a couple of shows. That has only been recently so you cannot say I am a 'showy type". But, I will tell you one thing I have learned. There are people on here that will always call those that aren't into showing BYB. I have stopped even trying to defend myself. if they look at my dogs, my program and all the things I do and still call me a BYB because I don't show, then they are never going to be convinced otherwise so you are just beating your head into the wall.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by blitz

Dudley, you're right somehow this got thread got off topic from betterment of the breed so I'm going to point out that getting your dogs out there and putting titles on them is how you know for sure that your dogs are worthy of to be in your breeding program. Otherwise, it's too easy to breed dogs with ears that are incorrect, soft toplines and bad coat texture. You can say it is show quality all you want but until you get your dog out there competing and winning, you're proably forgiving faults in your breeding stock that you probably would not forgiving if you were putting in the show ring. You are not going to win with a dog that isn't good. So that's why those that don't show are often lumped in with bybs. It's the assumed quality of your dogs.

I'd like to add that I love the dog show world even with all its quirkiness. An AKC championship is not easy to come by and you prove a lot about your dog and yourself by being able to get in the ring and compete with the big boys and with politics being what they are, you really do need to have a good dog to win. But you will win if you have a good dog, maybe not all the time but nobody wins all the time. It is not for the meek or thin skinned but don't knock it because it is a real accomplishment to successfully show your dog.

Breeding quality and show quality should be one and the same because like begets like and I sure didn't make that up. If you breed dogs that are not show quality, you are not going to produce outstanding dogs and you are not going to "better the breed" or even your own breeding program. Showing your dogs keeps you honest in your breeding program. It seems that you really want the recognition of the show breeders otherwise why would you care if you are referred to as bybs?

Actually, the title of this thread is 'Breeding For Profit' and the OP mentioned nothing about showing. She just wondered what is wrong with making a profit if you breed responsibly.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by matilda99

I'm not a breeder yet, still looking around and studying and trying to assemble some nice breeding stock. I won't bore you with the reasons why I think so, but I believe this is something I could do very well. I'm not rich but have financial resources to buy what I need to get started and take good care of my dogs. I have a nice big house with a safe yard. Everywhere I keep seeing breeding can't be done for profit. Please explain to me why not. I do understand that a good, responsible breeder will most likely not get rich at it because it is extremely labor intensive and the welfare of the dogs must always come first, but they should be able to make some profit. Some people make it sound like something dirty to make a little money breeding. I'm confused about this and would like to hear from some breeders who do make a profit. Thank you.

I think that one year I made about $500.00 in "profit". But if I had to "pay myself" for all of the work and time I put into this litter, I would be in the hole by thousands of dollars. And that "huge" profit when right back into the dogs. There is soooooooo much to consider, plan and do everyday. If breeding is done correctly(health screening, vet appointments, driving costs, food, toys, crates, grooming equipment, and zillions of more things to consider) you will NEVER make a dime. On the other hand, if breeding is done the "puppy mill" or BYB'r way, lots of money can be made. So, the "profit" depends on you. Do you care about the dogs completely or do you not care and cut out everything that is un-necessary just to have a goal of making a profit.

[blitz]

Originally Posted by bjh

Actually, the title of this thread is 'Breeding For Profit' and the OP mentioned nothing about showing. She just wondered what is wrong with making a profit if you breed responsibly.

OOPS. I strayed into the betterment of the breed topic. So sorry.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by blitz

OOPS. I strayed into the betterment of the breed topic. So sorry.

That's okay, you input is always welcome.

[MyFairLacy]

Well, last Saturday at a dog show and all day today at a dog show (and will be there again tomorrow) and I love it...love the show world. Yes, there are some things that could be considered negative, but that is any competitive activity you participate in. Anyway, I just love it!

[dudley1984]

I didn't know you were an exhibitor or breeder, MyFairLacy. How did your dog do at the show?

[dudley1984]

[QUOTE=blitz;1883938]Dudley, you're right somehow this got thread got off topic from betterment of the breed so I'm going to point out that getting your dogs out there and putting titles on them is how you know for sure that your dogs are worthy of to be in your breeding program....
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Blitz, I know this to be untrue. I have multiple reasons for not showing, among them that I have personally seen inferior dogs win. I believe it was in this thread I told about how I was advised by a big (real big, famous) exhibitor to dye my dog's hair. With the limited time I have available I can't afford to waste it playing those kinds of games. It has to be a very insecure exhibitor who can look at my pedigrees and call me a BYB.

[Ladyhawk]

[quote=dudley1984;1885153]

Originally Posted by blitz

Dudley, you're right somehow this got thread got off topic from betterment of the breed so I'm going to point out that getting your dogs out there and putting titles on them is how you know for sure that your dogs are worthy of to be in your breeding program....
----------------------------------------------
Blitz, I know this to be untrue. I have multiple reasons for not showing, among them that I have personally seen inferior dogs win. I believe it was in this thread I told about how I was advised by a big (real big, famous) exhibitor to dye my dog's hair. With the limited time I have available I can't afford to waste it playing those kinds of games. It has to be a very insecure exhibitor who can look at my pedigrees and call me a BYB.

Maybe she felt that you had an excellent dog stucturally but that it's having a lighter shade of blue was holding it back. In the end structure should be more important than coat and quantity and quality should be more important than what the latest interpretation is to what dark, steel blue is. As I learn to show I am constantly reminded that it is a team effort. It isn't always that an inferior dog lost but maybe that a superior handler won or that a great dog lost but that an inferior handler blew it for that dog. What you may consider inferior may not be strictly true. You may just see that the dog has a weak topline but the judge may see that the dog has a beautiful neck and head placement and proper angulation to move correctly when going around the ring. Jay Ammon wrote a great article on how a dog with bad angles when stacked will often present the best topline but that does not make it the best dog in the ring. We hope that the judge will look at the whole dog and that we can direct their eye towards the dog's finest features. One thing about showing, it will help you to avoid kennel blindness because you have to be able to see your dog as others see it. It also keeps you caring about what you are producing as others ( not just the judge, are watching you and critiquing your breeding program). Being held accountable by your peers is good, it keeps you on your toes.