Breeding for profit

[bbrewser]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

To me the right reason is to contribute something to the breed that you love. Whether it be to strive to bring stronger rears in your line resulting in fewer cases of LP or stronger cartledge in an attempt to help eliminate collapsed trechea. I look at the dogs that I see on the street and think can I improve the earset, tailset, coat quality, rear angulation, of what is out there. I just hate it when I have my dogs out and people ask me how can they get their yorkies ears up like that or their coat straight like that and all I want to tell them is they have a poorly bred yorkie and it won't look like mine. But I can't so I just say they're show dogs. But shouldn't a yorkie look like a yorkie? Everyone loves being around their yorkies, what's not to love but we have to ask ourselves are we doing a disservice to our breed. Someday when I pass on the torch I hope to leave behind a dog who will add to this breed and leave behind a legacy I can be proud of. There are already too many mediocre dogs, I want to breed superior ones.

[KathyinCali]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

With the glut of yorkie puppies on the market and the weakening economy I can definitely see a drop in the future prices of puppies. Of course vet expenses as well as other expenses will continue to rise so in the future you will be less likely to make money breeding. Not trying to be depressing but realistic. A $1000. puppy is a luxury, not a necessity and it is getting harder already to find excellent homes for our angels. In the coming year I will probably cut down on breeding which means I may have to cut down on showing but I already have a show prospect that I'm considering running when I finish Connor so it won't hurt too much. I guess it's like anything else, it's touch to start a new business in a slow economy.

I have a "kind of" related question that I've meant to ask and always forget...What happens to a puppy that isn't sold? Do they just become a part of the family? I imagine that is the case but just curious. It would seem to me that it is also an expense (though I'm sure they are well loved!) that a breeder can potentially have...

[Ladyhawk]

If the pup isn't sold becuase I'm holding it for show it becomes a part of my pack and I train it to go in the ring. If the pup weren't sold for some other reason such as a health issue than I would find it a special home with a relative or a client and give it away on the requirement that it was spay/neutered when the appropriate time came. In the end the important thing is that the dog be found a wonderful home but I would guess that if you breed indescriminately you could run out of money. I have a two year plan to start and we'll see how it goes from there but plans can be changed for a special needs dog. You do what you have to.

[SET Yorkies]

Ladyhawk: excellent perspective on what we do and why.... thanks so much for reminding all of us that improvement is the key....

As to the question... we do the same for puppies kept as prospects or with health issues... Never really have a problem with "unsold" We try to always have a waiting list prior to breeding so that usually takes care of that......

[dudley1984]

Now this is surely going to upset a whole big bunch of you, but the truth is I'm not particularly stuck on the notion of improving the breed. There are a lot of excellent Yorkshire Terriers out there that don't need a lot of improvement, in my humble opinion. They may look slightly different from each other, but they are all unmistakably nice Yorkies. I don't let myself get all hung up on a particular size ear, carried just so, etc. So, what happens to the puppies you think are not an improvement of the breed? I'll bet you sell them for money, and most of you probably also let them go with full breeding rights. How does that improve the breed? My mission is to breed very high quality Yorkies that people can take home as pets. I may or may not get back to showing one day; temperament wise I don't have much patience for some of the nonsense...

[KathyinCali]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

If the pup isn't sold becuase I'm holding it for show it becomes a part of my pack and I train it to go in the ring. If the pup weren't sold for some other reason such as a health issue than I would find it a special home with a relative or a client and give it away on the requirement that it was spay/neutered when the appropriate time came. In the end the important thing is that the dog be found a wonderful home but I would guess that if you breed indescriminately you could run out of money. I have a two year plan to start and we'll see how it goes from there but plans can be changed for a special needs dog. You do what you have to.

I pretty much thought this is the case. I have a girlfriend who has had dogs her whole life and won't take one that isn't at least six months old. She knows that typically everyone wants puppies, but for her she prefers they be housetrained (or well on their way) and spayed. I can see her reasoning and imagine there are more people out there like her. Thanks for responding

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

Now this is surely going to upset a whole big bunch of you, but the truth is I'm not particularly stuck on the notion of improving the breed. There are a lot of excellent Yorkshire Terriers out there that don't need a lot of improvement, in my humble opinion. They may look slightly different from each other, but they are all unmistakably nice Yorkies. I don't let myself get all hung up on a particular size ear, carried just so, etc. So, what happens to the puppies you think are not an improvement of the breed? I'll bet you sell them for money, and most of you probably also let them go with full breeding rights. How does that improve the breed? My mission is to breed very high quality Yorkies that people can take home as pets. I may or may not get back to showing one day; temperament wise I don't have much patience for some of the nonsense...

If I'm going to do something I'm going to strive to do it with excellence. Why wouldn't I want to breed a correct earset, a straight topline, a beautifully balanced face, excellent angulation so that the dog flows when it moves? There are not that many beautiful yorkies out there outside of the ring. I hear people comment how their yorkie doesn't look like the one they saw on the dog show last night. Alot of the other breeds look alot closer to what they are suppose to look like than your average yorkie because they have been poorly bred. Why breed poorly when you can breed well? Why not care about creating beauty and soundness? Do pet owners not deserve to have a yorkie that is the size, shape, color, and temperment that a yorkie is suppose to be? I sell any pup that I do not hold back for show as a pet and I sell them under a spay/neuter contract with limited registration. It doesn't cost that much more to get quality breeding stock and the time you take to educate yourself on the breed standard is well worth it. Down the road I will be proud of the contribution that I have made to the breed as well as the families that I have blessed with a sweet pet. There's just no reason not to improve and better your breeding program, what good is doing things half way?

[For My Coby]

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies

I've posted this before, but I would like for you to read it as well. These are my thoughts on breeding... Breeding and working with dogs has been a blessing for me and my family. Sometimes I do well and make a profit sometimes I don't. We do a good deal of training and boarding Yorkies, so I am able to off set loss that way.. In the long run, I can say if I accounted for my time, not just expenses, I'm sure I am beyond the negative in profit.... That said, here's something to think about.....

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

I hope that you have this saved and ready to copy and paste each time someone asks about breeding. So many have so many strong opinions on the subject. But unfortunately, too many of those opinions don't come across well or aren't received well. This story - with nothing that can be construded as attitude, snottiness, bluntness, or rudeness -tells the story. (It's like the saying "a picture is worth a thousand words"; your story is worth that many.) Excellent picture you painted.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

To me the right reason is to contribute something to the breed that you love. Whether it be to strive to bring stronger rears in your line resulting in fewer cases of LP or stronger cartledge in an attempt to help eliminate collapsed trechea. I look at the dogs that I see on the street and think can I improve the earset, tailset, coat quality, rear angulation, of what is out there. I just hate it when I have my dogs out and people ask me how can they get their yorkies ears up like that or their coat straight like that and all I want to tell them is they have a poorly bred yorkie and it won't look like mine. But I can't so I just say they're show dogs. But shouldn't a yorkie look like a yorkie? Everyone loves being around their yorkies, what's not to love but we have to ask ourselves are we doing a disservice to our breed. Someday when I pass on the torch I hope to leave behind a dog who will add to this breed and leave behind a legacy I can be proud of. There are already too many mediocre dogs, I want to breed superior ones.

Just wanted to say I love this post. There are so many poorly bred yorkies out there that most don't even look like the Yorkie that the breed standard describes. Most peope have no clue what a well-bred yorkie looks like. My Lacy is a poor example of the breed and I know that...I love her more than anything and think she's a pretty girl, but I know that she is not a good example of the breed. She's a great pet, but I will be buying from reputable show breeders from now on - I strive to only have healthy, good examples of the breed for pets from now on. And who knows...maybe I'll get into showing one day down the road...I have an interest in it...so we'll see. I just very much respect the breeders doing things the right way. Breeder has almost become a bad word because of the way most of them practice, but it's so great to know that there are wonderful breeders that do things ethically and for the right reasons.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

If I'm going to do something I'm going to strive to do it with excellence. Why wouldn't I want to breed a correct earset, a straight topline, a beautifully balanced face, excellent angulation so that the dog flows when it moves? There are not that many beautiful yorkies out there outside of the ring. I hear people comment how their yorkie doesn't look like the one they saw on the dog show last night. Alot of the other breeds look alot closer to what they are suppose to look like than your average yorkie because they have been poorly bred. Why breed poorly when you can breed well? Why not care about creating beauty and soundness? Do pet owners not deserve to have a yorkie that is the size, shape, color, and temperment that a yorkie is suppose to be? I sell any pup that I do not hold back for show as a pet and I sell them under a spay/neuter contract with limited registration. It doesn't cost that much more to get quality breeding stock and the time you take to educate yourself on the breed standard is well worth it. Down the road I will be proud of the contribution that I have made to the breed as well as the families that I have blessed with a sweet pet. There's just no reason not to improve and better your breeding program, what good is doing things half way?

My thoughts as well!!

[dudley1984]

[QUOTE=Ladyhawk;1879359]If I'm going to do something I'm going to strive to do it with excellence. Why wouldn't I want to breed a correct earset....

Huh? Did you actually read and understand my post? Of course I object to breeding junk to junk and producing more junk. I have excellent dogs which I breed to each other to produce nice pets. Angulation, movement, blah blah blah, I see a lot of that being faked in the ring through fabulous grooming and strict training. I have a particularly nice dog that should have finished two years ago but it's my concern over how show animals are treated that prevented me from placing him with a handler. One of my veterinarians spent part of his career involved in some way in the world of show dogs and he has nothing good to say about the sport--half starved dogs being made to prance around for a tidbit of food. One owner actually admitted to me her Yorkie went into hypoglycemic shock after a show because she had withheld food all day to keep him from soiling his beard!?!? It's a sport full of dirty little secrets. Many of us breed because it is just plain fun being around these wonderful little dogs and why not make a few dollars in the process, as long as it isn't hurting the breed. My dogs have a very luxurious life and mothers treated like little queens.

[yorkiekist]

[quote=dudley1984;1880475]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

If I'm going to do something I'm going to strive to do it with excellence. Why wouldn't I want to breed a correct earset....

Huh? Did you actually read and understand my post? Of course I object to breeding junk to junk and producing more junk. I have excellent dogs which I breed to each other to produce nice pets. Angulation, movement, blah blah blah, I see a lot of that being faked in the ring through fabulous grooming and strict training. I have a particularly nice dog that should have finished two years ago but it's my concern over how show animals are treated that prevented me from placing him with a handler. One of my veterinarians spent part of his career involved in some way in the world of show dogs and he has nothing good to say about the sport--half starved dogs being made to prance around for a tidbit of food. One owner actually admitted to me her Yorkie went into hypoglycemic shock after a show because she had withheld food all day to keep him from soiling his beard!?!? It's a sport full of dirty little secrets. Many of us breed because it is just plain fun being around these wonderful little dogs and why not make a few dollars in the process, as long as it isn't hurting the breed. My dogs have a very luxurious life and mothers treated like little queens.

Not all dog show people are THAT bad!!! I have heard of a few iffy things now and then about mistreatment of some sort, but not all exhibitors are like that. All of the show dogs that I know do live a luxurious life and are pampered as well as family pets. And if mistreatment was involved and your veterinarian knew about it then why didnt he report it to the veterinarian on the show grounds or the AKC rep? Handlers are another subject. You have to be careful who you use. You just need to do research and ask questions to find a well respected handler that really loves the dogs and the job.

[flgurl69]

Originally Posted by SET Yorkies

I've posted this before, but I would like for you to read it as well. These are my thoughts on breeding... Breeding and working with dogs has been a blessing for me and my family. Sometimes I do well and make a profit sometimes I don't. We do a good deal of training and boarding Yorkies, so I am able to off set loss that way.. In the long run, I can say if I accounted for my time, not just expenses, I'm sure I am beyond the negative in profit.... That said, here's something to think about.....

Every breeder on this board started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners, placed under various Christmas trees….and absolutely delighted special families….One to 4 kids, one to a wife of 35 years, one to an only child, and one to new bride. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girls as a pets….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full….

Wow!

[NanaDtreasures]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Just wanted to say I love this post. There are so many poorly bred yorkies out there that most don't even look like the Yorkie that the breed standard describes. Most peope have no clue what a well-bred yorkie looks like. My Lacy is a poor example of the breed and I know that...I love her more than anything and think she's a pretty girl, but I know that she is not a good example of the breed. She's a great pet, but I will be buying from reputable show breeders from now on - I strive to only have healthy, good examples of the breed for pets from now on. And who knows...maybe I'll get into showing one day down the road...I have an interest in it...so we'll see. I just very much respect the breeders doing things the right way. Breeder has almost become a bad word because of the way most of them practice, but it's so great to know that there are wonderful breeders that do things ethically and for the right reasons.

Your Lacy is a very pretty girl !!!!!
And has to be one of the best dressed Yorkie gals around
I know...OT...but I had to say it

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by NanaDtreasures

Your Lacy is a very pretty girl !!!!!
And has to be one of the best dressed Yorkie gals around
I know...OT...but I had to say it

Thanks She's my baby